Switzerland - Lake Geneva or Engadine?
 

We are planning a first time visit to Switzerland, for 2 weeks in 2008 (most likely August). We will definitely spend about 6 days in the OB area, and 4 in the Ticino area. For the other 4 days I was thinking maybe the Engadine area or the Lake Geneva area.

We would like to experience areas that are different, and as of now, we’re not sure if we’re going to drive or take trains – so logistics issues are not yet important. We like scenery, photography, quaint towns and villages, good food, cable cars, funiculars, gondolas, long walks (not interested in strenuous hikes). So, which area would be better for us?

Another thing to consider is altitude. DH might need some time to accommodate to high altitude, so how high is Engandine? Is it safe to assume that Lower Engadine is not as high as the Upper? So maybe, we can do Engadine, Ticino, OB – in this order?

We will be flying from the East Coast, so both Zurich and Geneva are good in-out of Switzerland options. Thanks

Boy, that's a tough one. Both would offer everything on your list. Both will be very nice in August in terms of weather. The Engadine has such beautiful mountain areas and many charming villages (including Guarda IMO the most charming village in Switzerland a country of charming villages) and will be less crowded and less crowded with Americans, they have far more European tourists. This might be a nice break from the BO which will be packed with tourists, especially Americans and from the Ticino which will be a mix, but will also be quite crowded in August. On the other hand, the Lake Geneva area has the huge lake with that stunning Alp vista and the opportunity to take ferry rides and it also has the vineyards for walks and winetastings. It also has some of the best restaurants in Europe. Really, you could not go wrong in either.

In terms of altitude, even the upper Engadine is not at a high elevation (the "upper" refers to its geographic location north of the lower Engadine), at least in terms of the towns you will stay in. The towns are in the valleys. Most people with altitude issues tend to have them starting at elevations of 8,000 feet and esp. at or above 10,000 feet. What is your husband's particular experience? In any event, you won't be staying in any towns that are at those types of elevations. St Moritz and similar areas in the Engadine are at about at the same elevation as most mountain towns in the BO like Wengen and Murren (all under 2,000 meters) and even at the top the mountain is less than 10,000 feet (or at least the parts accessible to walking and skiing is less than that height). If you want to avoid issues, just don't go to the very top of the higher mountain cable cars or trams (elevations are all posted) , or roughly stay under 3,000 meters.

I would not bother to rent a car as the train system is so great and efficient. There are some great mountain passes that are fun to drive, but otherwise, gas is quite expensive ($7 a gallon currently), parking is not going to be included in your hotel room rate and will be expensive and your hotel may not have it at all and then you will have to go out and find public parking, which is also expensive and sometimes hard to find. In the BO and parts of the Engadine many of the towns are car-free so you will be paying to park a car you will not be using. There are also some fantastic scenic train rides that go through areas that the highways and roads do not take, i.e. up to the Engadine and the Golden Pass route from the BO into Lake Geneva. You can get rail passes that will give you discounts on the cable cars and mountain trains as well. Go to rail.ch for schedules. Many people here are experts on the best discount rail passes to buy and can provide info, I lived in Switzerland so never had to figure out that system and can't really advise on it.

Much as I like the BO, I would suggest you consider taking one day off that end and adding it elsewhere, esp. if you do end up in the Engadine, as you may have a longish trip to that area. Look at schedules and flight schedules and see how it works out.

For walks, if you don't already have them there are two excellent books on walking in Switzerland. The first is Swiss Bernense Oberland by Philip and Louise Alspach. This gives an overview of the BO and gives details on several walks. The second is the Lonely Planet book "Walking in Switzerland". This rates walks by fitness level, even walks for kids. It also gives directions for using public transport. I find both accurate and very helpful. There are two main Swiss walking clubs which also offer guided walks, you might try their websites (may be only in German, Italian or French, but you could tray babbelfish translations):

Swiss Hiking Federation at http://www.swisshiking.ch/
Swiss Alpine Club at http://www.alpen-journal.de/links.html

Also, the local tourist offices in each town and village almost always has information (in English) on guided walks or solo walks as well, stop in at the tourist office in each village you visit.

Finally, if you have a choice, I would opt for a late June or July trip, you will find somewhat less crowds, as August is the main vacation month in Europe, which in addition to crowds means prices are higher too and hotels are more booked up. Late June is when lots of wildflowers are in bloom in the mountains. Bear in mind that the Montreux Jazz festival is usually in mid-July. This may be something you want to attend, it can also make hotels expensive and booked in the Lake Geneva area at that time. August 1 is National Day, which is a public holiday is does not hugely affect things beyond shops and museums being closed; its a fun holiday to observe there are usually bonfires in the hills and sometimes fireworks.

For the altitude issue, in terms of comparison, the base elevation (i.e., the bottom of the mountain) of a place like Vale Colorado is about 8,500 feet. The base elevation of the St Moritz area is about 5,500 feet. Most Swiss ski villages are actually lower in elevation than many US ski resorts in the west. If your husband had altitude problems at US skis resorts, he should not have problems in Switzerland, at least in villages, the mountain tops may be another issue, but he can choose not to go up. (I had a sister with a similar problem.)

Hi xyz99,

It's pretty hard to add anything worthwhile after Cicerone's wonderfully complete post, but I'll try. I think I can address two points.

First, I'll repeat one thing Cicerone said, which is that both the Engadin and Lake Geneva area will give you everything you list (as, hee hee, will most of Switzerland).

So, for a "different" area, I think the Engadin is more different from the rest of Switzerland than Lake Geneva is. The architecture is very different, with neither chalets nor Edwardian architecture but with colorful ancient scgraffiti decorating their houses. (The architecture of the Lake Geneva area is pretty standard for French cities.) And then the communities themselves -- lots of stone roads and stone squares. The mountains seem incredibly high there, towering high in a very narrow valley that makes them very dramatic.

For fewer tourists, I think the Engadin wins also. (I know you didn't list this as one of your points, but I'd like to address it anyway.) I've been to the Lake Geneva area ten times since 1995, twice in August. Let me tell you, it is overrun at that time. The tourists won't necessarily be Americans, but lots of roaming Asians, Europeans, and Middle Easterners. The lakeside promenade is jam packed, and for me that takes away some of its charm.

So, in short, I think you'll enjoy the Engadin more.

Good luck!

s

Another vote for Engadine just because Lake Geneva is a bit similar to Lake Maggiore.

According to what you like, with my ratio Engadine-Geneva region.

photography: 60-40
quaint towns and villages: 65-35
good food: 70-30
cable cars, funiculars: 75-25
long walks: 85-15 for the scenery.

The Engadine region is more 'nature'. The Geneva region is more 'urban'.

And do shift a day from the OB to Engadine, you won't regret.

I'm not an expert on Lake Geneva, having only been to the city of Geneva itself (it was fine, but not on a list of my favorites). But the Engadine and nearby Bregaglia Valley are absolutely stunning. I spent too little time there and am dying to return. If you go to the Engadine, make sure you take a bus to Soglio and do some hiking from there on the Via Bregaglia (an easy, beautiful walk). Google "Soglio" and "Bregaglia" and you will see some amazing photos that may convince you.

>> (the "upper" refers to its geographic location north of the lower Engadine) <<

A small correction to Cicerone's post:

The Inn River originates near the Passo del Maloja in the Upper (Ober) Engadin and it's a fairly wide valley. The valley then narrows as the Inn heads toward Austria - this section is known as the Lower (Unter) Engadin.

BTW, I certainly concur with the opinions in favor of a visit to this area; it's lovely!

another vote for the Engadine. The reasons are listed above in others' posts.

An addition to the correction of Cicerone's post: The 'Upper' Engadine does indeed refer to the fact that the valley floor is located at higher altitude than in the lower Engadine. And the mountains are definitely taller than in the lower Engadine.

Towns/villages in the Upper Engadine are at 1700 - 1850 m elevation; in the lower Engadine between 1000 - 1650 m (Guarda), but mostly between 1200 - 1400 m.

The mountains in the Upper Engadine are accessible to an elevation of 3303 m (Piz Corvatsch).

But no, I don't think your husband would have any problems with altitude. You should check with your physician, though.

INgo

Lac Leman (Geneva) is at sea level (or below?). It is a very beautiful area, I particularly like Vevey and Montreux.

Geneva is extremely easy to arrive and leave from as the train station and airport are connected (same for Zurich).

Wow! All this information…thank you all. My dilemma is solved, Engandine it is. I had a feeling you would say both areas are worth a visit, both would give us all that we are looking for…but you made it so easy for me to decide :)

The only time my husband had a problem with the altitude was in Bryce (Utah) – I think that’s about 8000 feet, and based on what you’re saying, the towns/villages in Switzerland are at lower altitudes. I think he’ll be fine.

With 3 bases only, I think we’ll opt for trains this time (especially after our last vacation in Ireland, where driving was “challenging” – we need a break from driving). I will be back with tons of questions, but I have no worries – you are all experts, so my problem will only be to select from the wealth of information you will provide.

For now, how does this sound: 5 nights Engadine, 4 nights Ticino, 5 nights BO ? We’ll probably have 1 extra night in Zurich, to catch an early flight back home. Thanks a lot.

It sounds like a wonderful plan! You'll be getting a great taste of the variety that Switzerland has to offer.

Welcome back, S! And bon voyage, Ingo! From Grasshopper, spending this year's vacation in Michigan. :-D

Sounds like a VERY good plan. Exactly the right amount in each place IMO. You won't need a car, good decision to rely on public transportation.

Hi Grassshopper! Thanks, hope to enjoy the trip. Aren't there better places for vacation? Like Keystone e.g.? ;-)

Hi xyz99,
The Engadine is beautiful, you have made a wise choice. I have copied our Locarno and Pontresina experience from my trip report if it is of any interest to you. We were there in June.

Locarno, Switzerland – 2 days
It was about 26/27 degrees with high humidity when we arrived, which was a bit of a shock. It took us a little while to get our bearings but we soon found our hotel, only a very short walk and it turned out to be in a great position. The hotel was old but clean and had pleasant staff. We had requested rooms with a lake view which we got but they were very, very small – only one of us could walk around the bed at a time but we did have French doors to a small balcony, flower boxes filled with red geraniums and a cute yellow and white striped awning that looked very Mediterranean.
http://www.du-lac-locarno.ch/

First things first – a yummy gelato (well we were almost in Italy!) then we went up the Funicular to get a view of Lago Maggiore then we walked down through the gardens and church to the bottom. We were very hot so we retired to the balcony for a cold beer then took the advice of Fodor’s and ate at the Manora self service restaurant. It was fine and much cheaper than anywhere else we had seen, DH and I shared a huge plate of salad and freshly cooked pasta, we chose the ingredients and the girl cooked up the sauce for us.

During the night our friend J had taken G to the hospital with bad lower stomach pains, after 2 nights and 2 days and many tests he found out it was a kidney stone and two weeks on it still hasn’t moved and they are now in Austria. So thank goodness for travel insurance as the account was in the thousands and had to be settled before he left the hospital, so make sure you have a reasonable credit card limit too. You never know!

After sitting with G so J could go back to the hotel to shower and change (8 minutes walking from the hospital to the hotel and we discovered the lovely “Old Town” in the process) DH and I decided there was nothing more we could do so we took off to Lugano
for a look around. At the station you either have to walk down or take the funicular as it is very steep – we walked and discovered some cute little streets and squares. A wonderful aroma hit us as we wandered into a small street, it was lunch time and at a stall was this huge slab of pizza, I had to indicate how much I wanted and it was cut and paid for by weight. It was piping hot and so nice – but just then it started drizzling so we ran under a portico and devoured our treat.

I really wanted to do the Olive Walk and the walk to Morcote but after spending the morning at the hospital it had cut our time short so we decided on the Olive walk. Morcote will have to wait until next time. It was still raining when we caught the bus and we were thinking “do we or don’t we” but when we arrived at Castagnola the rain went and the sun appeared like magic and it became quite humid. We found the signs and set off on our walk to Gandria. There were plenty of signs (with olives on them so we knew we were on the right path) and several different ways to go. At times we left like we were walking through people’s gardens and all the time there was Italy just across the lake. Gandria was incredible, I could have spent hours walking around and poking my head into doors and tiny alleys. But time waits for no man and neither does the ferry so we hopped on board and headed back to Lugano. This time we took the funicular back to the station, I took a look at one of those steep streets and said forget it! A visit to the hospital and we grabbed J and took her out for a meal. G was told the stone was ready to pass but they wanted to keep him in again overnight to see if anything would happen.

Bellinzona was the plan for today after visiting G, he was waiting to finalize the paper work then he was out of there so we decided to meet up at one of the castles. We walked to the first castle that is basically in the town, although it was interesting to see and walk around we were very disappointed with the museum and had it not been free with our rail pass I would have asked for our money back. We checked our map and found a pathway beside the cathedral in the main square that led up to another castle. We went up quite a few steep sets of stairs (my thighs should be thanking me for this) until we finally made it gasping for breathe. It had a good view over the town and was pleasant enough to spend an hour wandering around, well, to tell the truth it actually was time for us to work up the stamina to walk down.

We received an sms from G & J, they were waiting for us in the square to have lunch so that was nice. At least he got to see something before we traveled on. DH & I returned to Locarno and just spend a lazy couple of hours walking along the lake and enjoying the view from our balcony. In hindsight I wish we had gone to Lugano and done the Morcote walk that day but I guess you have to leave something for next time. We were going our separate ways the following day so a parting feast was in order however it started raining so we went to the Italian restaurant next door to the hotel and had a very nice meal and some wonderful red wine.


Author: Maudie
Date: 06/27/2007, 08:33 pm

Pontresina, Switzerland – 3 days

Still raining the following day, we said our goodbyes and headed to the station trying to keep our cases as dry as possible. Both couples were heading to Lugano but at different times. DH and I were catching the bus to Tirano and then taking the Bernina route to Pontresina. G & J were going through Milan to Venice, Rome, Austria and up through Germany to Frankfurt before flying home.

I had my heart set on catching the postbus trip called the Palm Express but can you believe it we were one day early. It did the first run of the season St Moritz-Lugano on the day I wanted to go the other way and the following day it did the reverse. On the postbus site it says the bus starts on June 15 so I just assumed one would go each way but that’s not the case. Twice when I enquired at railway stations I was given incorrect information about it. Oh well there is just another reason to go back.

The bus was only half full so we were able to sit towards the rear and spread out. The scenery around Lago di Lugano and Lago di Como was very pleasant and quite nail biting at times as the bus squeezed between buildings and along tiny roads that only seemed big enough for one car let alone and bus and a car to pass each other. I did my best to watch out for George Clooney but I have to admit I failed to catch a glimpse. After that we found the scenery at times quite boring through Italy, on our left were mountains with old buildings and lots of vineyards but the right side was factories etc, I actually fell asleep and that was the first time on our trip that I had done so on public transport as I never wanted to miss anything.

When we arrived at Tirano we had about 40 minutes before a train left so I sat at the station with the luggage and DH went off and found us some lunch. We caught the regular train and it was just great as we were in an empty carriage so we could put the windows down and jump from side to side – depending on which had the best view. We went around our first “pigtail” and I got some great photo’s. Then the rain started and blocked a fair bit of the view which was disappointing. It was still raining when we reached Pontresina and thankfully we found a taxi right outside the station.

Our hotel, at first glance appeared to be old world charm and the receptionist even refers to us by name, nice touch. We had booked a B/C category room at the Hotel Engadinerhof which meant partly refurbished with a 60’s style bathroom that had been improved with new paintwork, hairdryer and mirror cupboard.
http://www.engadinerhof.com/
Our room was very nice with new drapes, carpets and built in wooden furniture and even smelled a tiny bit of fresh paint so it was lovely and clean. When we decided to stay at Pontresina I spent quite a bit of time finding a hotel within our budget and one that had some English on their website and this hotel fell within those needs. We opted for ½ board the first night as it was still raining and at 25CHF per person for a 3 course meal we thought it good value. We did at times find it difficult with menu’s and notice boards/information sheets as we couldn’t read any of it but the ladies in reception were very helpful and we had a good laugh about it. The hotel was mainly filled with older German holiday makers and at times we were the only English speaking people around. We had a bit of a laugh to ourselves and referred to it as Kellerman’s from Dirty Dancing fame. We would stay there again though and they had a wonderful breakfast. But do be aware at Pontresina it is an uphill walk to get to the main part of town where most of the hotels are, though it didn’t bother us at and the hotel van took us back when we left.

We woke the next morning to stunning clear blue sky with a lovely view over the rooftops to the snow covered mountains. We caught the train to St Moritz and had a walk around the lake and town before heading off to Preda. St Moritz was very pretty and DH commented that the view of the lake was like a picture that he had on the lid of his coloured pencils when he was in school.

We walked from Preda along an historic rail track to Bergun, it took us about 2 ½ hours with some stops to just take in the scenery and we waited for a train at one of the viaducts so we could sit underneath. We had rushing streams, cows with big bells, cow poo, fields full of wildflowers, little wooden bridges and those wonderful stone viaducts, this was the Switzerland we had come to see. We waited for a train to Filisur and walked to the Landwasser Viaduct where we met a lovely young lady from the USA and exchanged travel stories and took photo’s. I sent up my mini tripod and got some great pictures of the trains going over the viaduct – we felt like ants standing under it. We all walked back to the station and shared chocolate and cold water. We said goodbye at Bergun and we stayed on until Samedan and changed to Pontresina. Half board again that night as we were too tired to go hunting for food.

Next morning we headed up to Guarda and with the usual Swiss precision there was a postbus waiting when the train arrived to take us up the zig zag road to the village. It was similar to our trip out of Lugano – how the driver managed to fit that bus between some of the buildings is beyond me. This was such a pretty place, we walked around with our mouths open almost. It was like being taken back in time, we could have spent hours there and wish we had had more time. But we wanted to do the walk – Guarda to Ardez which was glorious, Heidi country, just us and the butterflies and perfect weather. It is one of the things we did that sticks in our minds and reminds us of what a beautiful country Switzerland is.

Back at Pontresina we had a well deserved cold beer then decided to go on the Ospizio Bernina – Alp Grum walk. As I said at the beginning of this long report we didn’t really enjoy it and felt is was rather dreary compared to our walk earlier in the day. But the view from Alp Grum was truly spectacular. We wished we had just got off the train there and had something to eat in the restaurant then caught another train back – oh well never mind it was another experience. On our way back to our hotel we purchased some nut cake from the Hotel Albris that I had read about on here. And let me tell you it was divine.

Best wishes for a great trip.

Oh Maudie,
I think you had a wonderful trip, that sounds fantastic!
I will need to read this with a map, thank you so much!

xyz99, you are most welcome and yes I know what you mean about having to look at a map!
If you wish to read the rest of my report you will have to click on my name and find one that says 8 weeks in Eurpope - the last 3 weeks were spent in Switzerland by the way so you might find some relevant info.
Hope you have a great time - we can't wait to go back.

The hike from the top of Mount San Salvatore (take the funicular up) down to Morcote is lovely. It takes about 2 1/2 hours. We had a very memorable lunch on the waterfront in Morcote before heading back to Lugano (which you can get to by bus or ferry.)

If you decide to stay in Lugano, I can recommend the Hotel Federale. Ask for a high room with a view of the cathedral. Lovely.

Thanks for the additional info.
Maudie, I found your trip report, and I plan to read it (not only the Switzerland part).

Cimbrone,
Not sure where we’ll stay – since we decided not to rent a car, the decision will be made based on train connections, areas we’ll want to explore, how easy we can get there from where we stay, etc.
Marcote and the Mount San Salvatore hike are on the list.

Another thought – even if we decide not to rent a car, should we do that for the Engadine portion of our trip? It seems we’ll be fine without in OB, and maybe even in the Ticino area, but the area where a car might be useful is Engadine. What do you think?
Thanks

A car is not necessary for the Engadine. Any special reason why you thought you need one there?

I.

It's very easy to get from Lugano to the Engandine by Swiss post bus. No need for a car.

www.postbus.ch/en/

Of course, a car is not "necessary".

But wouldn't it be "useful" as xyz asked and wouldn't it give one a lot of flexibility? I say YES.

Therefore it'd be nice to have one IMO.

Ingo, Cimbrone – can’t remember who on this board mentioned in response to somebody else’s question that if a car would be valuable anywhere in Switzerland, that would be Engadine. So I thought….well, not sure what I thought.

We generally rent a car (unless we go to visit a big city), so not having one would be a first for us. I know everybody says one is not needed in Switzerland, and I’m trying to convince myself of that. Most likely we will not rent one this time, and I’m worried – not that we would not be able to reach the places we want to reach, but that it would take us 2 hours by trains that might need 1-2 connections, vs 1 hr if we were driving.

The other concern is, by car, we can always stop if we find a place we would like a picture of – if by train, do the windows roll down? Traveling seems more restrictive by train. And you depend on their schedule. Are the trains generally crowded? How often do they run? I know, it depends on route…I think the main thing is, it’s a different way of traveling for us, I just need to get used to the idea.
Thanks.

There's nothing wrong with renting a car in Switzerland, if that is how you prefer to travel and are more comfortable doing so.

I'm one that thinks renting a car is ideal for the Engadine although buses and trains run efficiently. There are just so many quaint towns to stop and tour that I found you're more flexible with a car.

It really depends on where you'd like to base yourself and what you'd like to do. Taking the train down to Poschiavo and back is a day trip where you wouldn't need a car at all.

If you prefer having a car, by all means, get one. I always prefer train and bus travel, only because I find using the local transportation to be part of the adventure. And it's stress-free. Once in the Engadine, you will be walking a lot and taking buses from one village or town to another. There will be no shortage of picture-taking opportunities, even if you miss out on a few landscapes whizzing by between destinations.

Thanks, all these options are great. In the end, we might use a mix of trains, buses and a car, but this is probably to early to decide. For now, I’ll focus on making a list of things we would like to do, places we would like to see in each of the 3 areas, then prioritize.

Based on that, we’ll need to decide which town to stay in and if we really need a car. All your answers have been extremely helpful. I’ll be back with more questions.

bookmarking...thank you!