ArcherJ

Hello everybody! I really need help with my trip to Switzerland. I am coming in from Vienna and I don't have much time. I will be taking the train from Vienna on July 30 around 9 in the morning, so I figure I will spend pretty much the whole day getting to wherever my first destination is. Right now, I am planning on staying at the Hotel Staubbach for three nights, but other then that, I am completely flexible (I will have a swiss pass). I am trying to decide between the following two ideas:

July 30: Train to St Moritz or another city in that general area.
July 31: Glacier Express to Zermatt
August 1: Klein Matterhorn excursion, train to Lauterbrunnen
August 2: Bike rental around the Lauterbrunnen Valley, Trummelbach Falls, Grutschalp-Murren, maybe the Schilthorn if I have time
August 3: Grindelwald-First trip. Hike to Faulhorn. Go to the Glacier Gorge afterward.
August 4: I am planning on going to Lucerne this day. I will either hike from Mannlichen to Wengen and then go to Lucerne, or go to Lucerne right away and go to Mt. Pilatus
August 5: Go to zurich, fly home (flight leaves at 1)

That was my original plan, but after hearing some negative things about the glacier express (my pass is 2nd class, so I would need to upgrade, I am not sure if this is worth it or not). This is my other idea:

July 30: Train to Lucerne, spend the afternoon walking around, maybe a museum or two.
July 31: Mt. Pilatus trip. Train to Zermatt.
August 1: Klein Matterhorn trip. Train to Lauterbrunnen.
August 2: The bike trip I talked about in the previous itinerary.
August 3: Grindelwald-First-Faulhorn and Glacier Gorge
August 4: Mannlichen-Wengen
August 5: Home to Zurich.

So, basically, I would like to know which plan you think is better (also, I don't have a place to stay yet in Zermatt or Lucerne, so suggestions would be appreciated, though I am on a tight budget (preferably under 60-70CHF a night, if possible). I'm sorry for the long question, but I really don't know which of these is better. Logistically, I know the train times would work. But, since I have never been or talked to someone who has, I would like to know whether either of these plans just makes more sense than the other.

swandav2000

Hi ArcherJ,

I know you're pretty interested in getting a reply or two, but I don't know how much my reply will really help --

I don't like much about this itinerary; just too much moving around for my taste. I would pick either Lauterbrunnen or Zermatt and stay there -- hiking & biking & getting to know all the backstreets. I really don't like hitting a place for only a night or two and spending four hours on a train on successive days.

For what it's worth, I didn't like Zermatt either. Well, the hiking is stupendous, but the village itself is oberbuilt in my opinion.

s

ArcherJ

Hello Swandav! I appreciate the response. I agree with you that moving around that much may not be the best idea, but I just don't know if I will have another chance to visit Switzerland for many years. I am worried that if I just stick to one place, I would be missing out on something wonderful. I suppose I could just visit Lucerne and Lauterbrunnen, and skip the whole Zermatt trip. Then, I wouldn't be taking too many long train trips. But, I have heard so many great things about Zermatt that I worry that it may be a place that is really worth seeing. I suppose I could even go one step further and visit only Lauterbrunnen, but then I would really be worried about not getting a more well-rounded idea of what Switzerland is really like. If you were doing a trip like this with limited time, what itinerary would you suggest?

brookwood

If you find a place in Zermatt or Luzern for 60-70 chf per night, good luck.

As for Luzern and the first day from Vienna, at best you will not get there until 4:30 in the afternoon. The trip on the train from Vienna to Luzern will take you 9 hours and 25 minutes with 4 changes.

I am not sure what glacier gorge you are intending, but if you have enough oomph after hiking to the top of the Faulhorn from First, more power to you.

I don't know the issues involved in taking the Glacier Express second class.
What are the complaints?

I think Mt Pilatus is not really needed.
After the Schilthorn, the Faulhorn, and anything else in the Berner Oberland, Pilatus will be an anti climax.

If you want to invest the time around Kleine Scheidegg, hike the Eiger North Wall trail, preferably upwards from Alpiglen to the Eigergletscher station.
Some people go down the trail because they think it is easier. I am not so sure because you fight for balance and slip and slide most of the way down.

Luzern is a pretty town, but you are not allowing enough time to do it any type of justice. There is more than enough in both Zermatt and the Lauterbrunnen area to keep you occupied.

By the way that Swiss Pass is good for 25% off on those mountain lifts and none of them are cheap.

ArcherJ

I understand its at a high elevation, but I haven't had any problems hiking for ten or twenty miles in the Colorado Rockies, so I'm not really too worried about the hike to the Faulhorn. My feeling is that I'm not going to be in Switzerland long enough to do any place justice, but I don't want to give up on seeing things entirely. I just want to make the most out of a relatively short period of time, bearing in mind that I may not get another chance to do it again. I think that you both have a very good point, I should probably just choose to stay in Lauterbrunnen for three nights and stay in either Zermatt or Luzern for the rest of the trip. I just don't really know which one. Luzern seems to make more sense logistically, but I have heard many excellent things about Zermatt. As for the train from Vienna, I know it is a long trip, but I am currently planning on taking the night train. It leaves Vienna around 22:00 and ends up in Luzern (or another place if I prefer, such as St Moritz for the Glacier Express) early in the morning. I don't know, I'm feeling pretty discouraged now, maybe I should just stay the whole time in Lauterbrunnen and not move around at all, at least I could find a place to stay that was in my price range there. I could probably just stay in Austria a few more nights too. I don't know, I'll have to think about it.

swandav2000

Hi Again,

Yup, I know it's a tough decision -- taking the chance of missing a great place or moving so much that you remember the Matterhorn as being near Wengen!!

I think it's really useless to tell you what *I* would do because my situation is so different from yours -- I'm 50 yo, halfway retired, seen most of Europe that I care to, and travel to my favorite places fairly frequently. Plus, as I told you, I really do prefer to hunker down and get under the skin of a place -- I like to do a lot of the hikes and walks that I get from the tourist office. I simply can't tell you what *you* would like better!

In the Army, we used to do a sort of "decision matrix" spreadsheet where we listed each option down one side, then listed the goals across the top (for a vacation, the goals might be: hiking, views, cost, easy commute, or whatever). Then you rate each option according to the goals (Zermatt might be the best for views but the worst for commute, for example); you can weigh the goals if one or two are more important to you. Then you add up the numbers to see if one option is a clear winner. I never changed my mind by using one of these things, but it helped me define my goals and sort out my desires. If I got a result that surprised me, obviously, I was lying to myself about the weight of my goals -- or something.

Sorry I can't help more. Hope some discussion helps you to figure it out. Or maybe hunt up some photographs (at www.webshots.com or google) to see if one really really draws you.

Good luck!

s

ArcherJ

Hello again swandav. I think you're probably right. I think I know what my goals are: 1. Be Safe and don't miss my flight; 2. See Gorgeous Scenery; 3. Take a Couple of Good Hikes; 4. If at all possible, not go entirely broke in the process. In light of these goals, I think I should just stick with Zermatt and Lauterbrunnen. It's a tough call, but I'm sure I'll have a great time no matter what I decide in the end. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it

brookwood

If you are in shape, then the Faulhorn is a piece of cake. I did it at the tender age of 65 before my hip got surgical.

So hit it first thing, while the sun on the lakes below you is to the south and therefore behind you. Great photoop.

Then come on down, take the cable lift up the hill to Pfingstegg and head for Stieregg. Cross the gully beyond the restaurant, admire the tumbling glaciers, and head along the rough trail as far as you can go.
The trail ends at a mountain shelter which is reached by a steep scramble up the cliffs known as the Rots Gufer.

If you do that in one day, you will be drenched in beauty.

The Eiger trail can be supplemented from the Eigergletscher station by going all the way down to Wengen. Or, at Kleine Scheidegg, walk up to the crest of the Männlichen Ridge.

From there you see a lot of the same sights, but from a different perspective. Two cable lifts lead down, one to Grindelwald Grund and one to Wengen. The one to Wengen stops earlier than you might think. As I recall, the last downward run is at 5 pm, but check it. They knock off work with people still up there.

If you want another one, go to Stechelberg at the south end of the Lauterbrunnen Valley and start walking higher up to the aboslute end of the valley near and above the Oberhornsee.

It is beautiful up there, a real jumble of rocks and cliffs and snow banks.

Around Zermatt, I agree the town is touristy. Solution, don't stay there.
The Gornergrat train leads upwards. Take it to one of the first stops and get out and walk up to the Gornergrat station which overlooks Monte Rose. You have on a clear day some awesome views of the Matterhorn.

You might consider taking the trans glacier walk. I am told, although I don't know for sure, that the track is prepared for non glacier equipped walkers.

There are several classic semi climbs in that area as well. Some are quite steep and long.

Baskett

Im'back for the last time. As you can see, the others sorta agree with me. You are just jumping around too much on trains in a short time and not really enjoying the places you are at. My last suggestion. Stay half the time in the OB, and the other half in Zermatt and do the two things I mentioned to you before in Zermatt. Lucerne is just a big city. If you want to see beauty, go to OB and zermatt and hike on the trails there, although if it is bad weather, change to plan B. By the way, the train ride on the little red train from Brig to Zermatt is a pretty train ride. Sit on the right side of the train car and pull down the window to take pictures. Every time we have been there the train car was so empty that we could jump back and forth from the right side to the left side. I think anyone who goes to Switzerland should see the Matterhorn, but then that's just me. Also, if you go to Zermatt, go down to see the cemetery associated with the church. It's very impressive. Several graves have the climbing shoes on the stones as well as the ice picks. I remember one grave stone had written on it, "I chose to climb."

taxatty

I would also suggest splitting your stay between the BO and Zermatt. The main difference between the two is that in the BO, there is plenty to do withn a reasonable distance even in bad weather (for example, Trummelbach Falls, day trips to Luzern or Bern, etc.). In Zermatt, bad weather means you're stuck in the middle of nowhere. I wouldn't skip Zermatt by any means, and the Matterhorn and fabulous hiking (especially down from the Gornergrat or the Schwarzsee) are worth the trip, but if the weather is bad there and is expected to stay that way for awhile, go elsewhere.

ArcherJ

Hello everybody! I really appreciate all of the suggestions. I think that your advice to stick with just Zermatt and the BO is a great idea. As a result, I have decided to just go to Zermatt for two nights (july 31-aug 2) and the BO for three (aug 2-5). But, it leads me to one problem. It seems a little extreme to take the train all the way from Vienna to Zermatt (17 hours!). So, I think I might have to stop somewhere along the way. Can anyone suggest a good place that I could get off the train for the night, maybe take a quick hike/walk in the morning for some exercise, and then get back on the train to Zermatt. (or do you think I really should take the long train ride all the way to Zermatt?)

bob_brown

In my experience, Switzerland is not a destination that improves the faster you move through it.

Perhaps it is my age, but it is a country that invites repeated trips. Thank heavens I have the time, the money, and the health to enjoy it.

Drink in Switzerland like it was a fine wine - savor it. Don't gulp it.

arewethereyet

Hi Archer,

My family and I will also be in Zermatt 7/31 to 8/2. Our budget is tight also, and I had almost given up on this city. Most of the inexpensive places were full (August 1st is Switzerland's independence day). My very last attempt at a hotel there turned up a room for us (I did this back in February) at the 2 star Dufour Garni: http://www.reconline.ch/dufour/
There isn't much info on it, but it's quite reasonable and may fit your needs.

sunstar

I remember my first few trips to Switzerland. I did a lot of jumping around from place to place. I wanted to see it all in a few days.

Now, I like to pick an area and stay there. I like that bike ride in the Lauterbrunnen valley also. That'll be fun!

sunstar

Archer, if you can pull off all of this, well, all I can say is: You dah man!!!!

That is a very ambitious schedule and I hope you pull it off.

I know I would be ready for a vacation from my vacation

Good luck though. Seriously, try to do as much of that as you can, but do not over extend yourself. It is easy to do. I remember throwing my legs out on one trip because I wanted to do as much as I could.

Start off slowly on the hikes and work into the longer hikes.

ArcherJ

Hello again! I am VERY impressed by all of the responses. I truly appreciate it. Arewethereyet, thank you for the suggestion, the place looks very good! Hopefully, they will have a room available! I have decided to follow everyone's advice and stick with Zermatt and Lauterbrunnen. I will stay two nights in Zermatt and three in Lauterbrunnen. Hopefully, I will be able to do most of the things I wanted to. I think the best idea is for me to remain as flexible as possible, then if I think I should try to do more or less I can. Once again, thanks for all of the help, I really appreciate it!

swandav2000

Hi again,

That train ride is a real killer! Have you looked into a budget flight? I just checked www.whichbudget.com, and there are two that offer the Vienna-Zurich route (couldn't find Vienna-Geneva). I priced one for a random date in August, and it was under 80E. Of course, you'd still have the five hours from Zurich airport to Zermatt, but it's still a lot better than a 17-hour ride!

s

grebbs

The bike rental option should be a for sure must do it..sounds like you have some good ideas.