Switzerland itinerary
 

My partner and I are travelling through Europe for 3 weeks in June/July this year with our baby. We're planning 8 nights split between Munich and Berchtesgaden where we will have grandparents to look after the baby so we can sightsee. We are then going off alone and are planning on heading to Switzerland then northern Italy and then to Paris. We'll have about 10 days in Switzerland, Northern Italy and Paris. We'll probably go to Milan in Italy as that seems to be the most convenient place to travel into and out of, plus hopefully is a good introduction to Italy. The section that I just cannot work out is Switzerland (yes an entire country!). We were keen on the Golden Pass and spending a bit of time in Montreux but now we're heading to Italy does it make more sense to do the Bernina Express? We want the Alpine experience and too see as much gorgeous scenery as possible, a bit vague! As we are travelling with a baby I want to avoid too many train changes in one trip - not a problem if we're being advised to break the journey up and stay somewhere on route obviously.

Can anyone help?

The section that I just cannot work out is Switzerland (yes an entire country!). We were keen on the Golden Pass and spending a bit of time in Montreux but now we're heading to Italy does it make more sense to do the Bernina Express?>

check out these fab IMO sites for lots of stuff on Swiss trains like the Bernina Express and Golden Pass - www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

- with such limited time you can't do both really - Bernina is fantastic - to me the most awesomely scenic train ride in Europe but is a detour from the things most folks head to in Switzerland, like the fantastic Berner Oberland - a k a Jungfrau Region - and sweet base towns in the mountains like Grindelwald, Lauterbrunnen or Wengen.

The Golden Pass is easy to incorporate into a Montreux to Milan route - take it from Montreux to Interlaken - spend a few days there and head to Milan - perhaps stopping by Stresa and Lake Maggiore - Stresa ois a sweet lakeside town right on the main rail line to Milan.

I woldn;t visit Milan just because it is nearby. If it primarily a business city - and while it does have some major artistic sights - is, IMHO, not even close to the best of Italy.

Separately, with an infant and only 10 days I think 3 countries is simply too much. You will be traveling at a much slower rate than a couple alone - and I wold limit yourselves to Switzerland and Paris - so your're not madly rushing about with a baby and all the paraphernalia.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...iss-trains.cfm

A thread I have done may have something useful in it for your plans as it talks in depth about both Bernina Express and Golden Pass trains and others.

Milan makes sense if you can fly back home out of it - doing an open jaw into Munich and out of Milan. And if you want to head first to Zurich and end up in St Moritz your first night then take the Bernina Express when ready to leave Switzerland take the Bernina Epress (or regular trains that go over the same route but which do not require reservations) - take it to Torino, Italy then hop on an Italian train to Varenna-Esino from where you can get boats to Bellagio - if you want to spend a few days on lovely Lake Como - Como has train service to Malpensa Airport - perhaps even skipping busy loud hectic Milan - or stay there one night before your flight.

If you want to do more of Switzerland and ditch Italy - say flying back from Zurich then perhaps head first to Montreux - a few days there and then the Golden Pass to Interlaken area and then direct to Zurich Airport to fly home.

Milan is not a good introduction to Italy. And I agree you have too much planned for traveling with a baby. How old is this baby? Have you traveled with him/her before? What about naps?

When traveling with small children, it works better to slow down, stay longer in one place, make fewer stops. Getting on and off a train with baby and baggage is complicated. Fewer bags make it easier. So would an apartment with a washer/dryer. Having in-unit laundry enables fewer, smaller bags.

Thanks for your replies, travelling with a young baby is certainly going to be different from my backpacking days when I had no more than 10kgs on my back! She is a good baby and sleeps well in her pram, we do tend to spend a fair bit of the day out as she enjoys excursions. However from your comments we may be better off not doing Italy and concentrating on Switzerland and having a bit of extra time in Switzerland and the Paris area. Originally my partner wanted to do Zurich to Montreux to Milan to Monte Carlo/Nice an then Paris but I've managed to rein him back in and point out that we'd spend most days travelling and thats no fun!

It seems that the most logical route is to go from Zurich/Lucerne to Montreux and then we can get a fast train from Lausanne to Paris. A few questions:

1. We'll prob train it from Munich to either Zurich or Luzern - where would be the best place to stop for a night before heading off on Golden Pass? I am thinking Luzern but is it a bit too similar to the Lake Geneva area and Zurich would be more of a contrast?

2. Will get off at interlaken to do the Bernese Oberland - is there a town to to stay that we could use as a base to see as much as possible without needing to change accommodation? How many nights to spend a reasonable amount of time?

3. Is Montreux the nicest place to stay on Lake Geneva?

Thank you :)

A friend has suggested Zermatt but thats hardly on route, is it worth taking time out of the Bernese Oberland to divert to Zermatt? There seem to be lots of train changes from other posts I've read. Are we going to get as good an experience just staying around BO?

Accommodation at Montreux always looks so expensive. Have you considered Vevey which is between Montreux and Lausanne. Pretty little town on the shores of Lake Geneva.

Hi Jezzie,

No, I don't think it's worthwhile to leave one beautiful mountain area just to see another beautiful mountain area -- unless you have the time to spend about four nights at each place. I think you simply lose too much time with each move!

If you want to spend time in the Oberland, I would recommend the car-free villages of Wengen or Mürren for their beauty and ambiance.

Yes, imo, Montreux is one of the nicest spots on Lake Geneva, but, yes it can be pricey. In addition, there is a huge Jazz Fest there for three weeks in July, so you'll probably want to avoid it at that time. Your hosts will give you a Riviera Card that makes all the busses free, and bus #201 runs all the way from Villeneuve (other side of Chillon) to and past Chillon, to and through Montreux, and to and through Vevey. So you can easily stay in Vevey and see lots of Montreux using the bus if you want.

Montreux is more of a resort town, with folks from all over the world congregating on the promenade along the lake (which is one of the best features of the town). In contrast, Vevey is more of a residential town, with more shops, an interesting old town right next to the lake, twice-weekly markets in its central square by the lake, and, yes, fewer hotels. The foreigners I've met there tend to be repeat visitors or long-term visitors.

I always stay in apartments in Montreux, but if I were going to stay at a hotel, I'd stay at the Hostellerie Bon Rivage just outside of Vevey (its website seems to be undergoing maintenance at the moment, but you can try again in a week or so).

Have fun as you plan!

s

If you want to go from Berchtesgaden to Bernina Express, just take a train from Salzburg to Landeck (Austria), a bus from there to Scuol (Switzerland)and then the train to Pontresina - Bernina - Tirano - Lake Como. This would look like this:
Berchtesgaden dp 8.35 - Salzburg 9.42/10.02 - Landeck 12.34/13.05 - Scuol 15.28/15.34 - Pontresina ar 16.56
Bernina - Express: Pontresina dp 9.52 - Tirano ar 12.02
Connecting train to Milan: Tirano dp 13.10 - Milan ar 15.40. The train runs along Lake Como. It's highly recommended to leave the train at Bellano and to continue by Lake Como boat up to Como (3 hrs boat's ride).
Zermatt is more or less along the railway line Milan - Montreux - Paris anf can therefore easily be included in a rail trip from Northern Italy to Paris. The Golden Pass line links the line Milan - Montreux - Paris with the line Milan - Lucerne - Basle - Paris. There are tons of possibilities. The only coonstraint is your very very limited time for such a trip.
After having seen the glaciers of Pontresina and Zermatt (if you stay at least 1 day at these places) it wouldn't make any sense to go to the Bernese Oberland in order to see more or less the same for a third time, but at much higher prices, however!

If you want to go from Berchtesgaden to Bernina Express, just take a train from Salzburg to Landeck (Austria), a bus from there to Scuol (Switzerland)and then the train to Pontresina>

and this is a very scenic route as well - and all changes are easy but still is an 8-hour marathon - perhaps break it up around Landeck - but would still be quicker than the other route Salzburg-Zurich-Chur-St Moritz.

After having seen the glaciers of Pontresina and Zermatt (if you stay at least 1 day at these places) it wouldn't make any sense to go to the Bernese Oberland in order to see more or less the same for a third time, but at much higher prices, however!>

I think what the Bernese Oberland offers is far more varied and spectacular in several ways than either the St Moritz or Zermatt regions - both awesome places but the Jungfrau Region is much much more than glacier-girdled peaks - the two lakes bookending Interlaken for example make great days out on boats with lots of things to see around each lake and the awesome cable way to the Schilthorn and Piz Gloria - the longest cable way in the Swiss Alps and the Schilthorn is unique, etc.

And for hikers the Jungfrau Region has something for everyone from the easy Ridge Walk between Mannlichen and Kleine Scheidegg - so I would not say if you seen the other two areas there is no reason to come to the Jungfrau Region.

Les goûts sont differents: I prefer the Zermatt area by far. Better climate, higher mountains and much more hiking oportunities.
Tha Lauterbrunnen Valley etc. is at the Northern edge of the Alps whereas the Zermatt area (and the whole Canton of Valais) is in the MIDDLE of the Alps.

I prefer the Zermatt area by far. Better climate, higher mountains and much more hiking oportunities.>

I disagree with Zermatt having 'much more hiking' opportunities than the Jungfrau Region. I have hiked extensively in each area and actually I believe the Jungfrau Region - including places like Murren, Grindelwald, Wengen, etc offers even more hikes than a much more compact Zermatt area.

But both have enough hiking possibilities that you can literally spend days in either. The Grindelwald area seemed to offer more easy hikes however than Zermatt did.

What is an "easy hike":
Kleine Scheidegg - Maennlichen?
Grosse Scheidegg - First?
Both are rather promenades than hikes, however

well easy hike should have meant stroll and that is what most people want - but an easy hike I have taken goes from Kl Schiedegg to Wengen - now would you call that a hike or a stroll> and I have hiked from Grindelwald up to Gr Scjhiedegg - that is not an easy hike and then from there down to Meiringen - not an easy hike. Alpine Garden to Gridnelwald; Schilthorn to Murren; Kl Scjhiedegg to Grindelwald and on and on and on...

There are zillions of hikes in the Jungfrau Region - proper hikes - at least as much opportunity as at Zermatt - ctrazy IMO to say pone is better than the other and I have done all the main hikes in both areas.

I've done all these hikes too, of course. Some of them (like Wengen - kleine Scheidegg) are fine in winter too, when they are prepared as Hiking and family sledging tails ...
I like also Axalp - Faulorn - Grindelwald or Kiental - Roter herd - Schilthorn - Muerren, etc. etc.

But I confess: I prefer the Zermatt - Breuil/Gressoney-Alagna/Graechen-Saas Fee-Simplon hiking area and con therefore probably not judge objectively.

Well I certainly enjoyed my few days (only) hiking in the Zermatt area and it is a hiker's/waler's paradise. And yes the weather seems to be better as you say!

You can't go wrong in either place (or practically any of Switzerland's many Alpine meccas.

Haven't checked back in a while and seem to have started a debate! Our hiking is limited by both of us being quite lazy and having a baby with us :-) So we'd prefer gentle strolls and easily accessible gorgeous scenery.

So we'd prefer gentle strolls and easily accessible gorgeous scenery.>

Grindelwald fits this perfectly! You need not even leave the paved streets of town to ogle gorgeous natural scenery.