pbal

<<just want to check off a location regardless of whether its is a visit versus a pass through.>>

Ouch and double Ouch!

Apart from Cologne and Antwerp I can't see anything I'd be willing to put off due to time constraints - and even these are only because we simply can't fit them in. We thought 3 days for Black Forest area based out of Karlsruhe, couple of days in Switzerland just passing through, really, 1 week to see Florence, Rome And Venice based out of Florence, exit Venice and 1week to see Vienna, Salzburg, Munich and Bavaria based out of Salzburg. From there we planned to go to Brussels and base ourselves there for a week or so and see Paris + Versailles in 3 days, Bruges and Ghent over a day each and then Netherlands over 2-3 days.

Okay now that sounds tiring - might need a vacation to recover from this vacation�� Oh I forgot Stuttgart! Ok back to the drawing board - or in this case Google Maps...

PalenQ

I think that with your far-ranging train itinerary some kind of Eurailpass is likely to be a good deal -I'd look into flexipasses or Eurail Select Passes too along with a Swiss Pass perhaps (not sure of your Swiss travels) - and Eurails are first class is over 25 and that is a definite benefit IME of years of railing around Europe (many dispute that but I stand firmly by it - especially for those with luggage- often in countries not requiring advance seat reservations before boarding you can still hop on trains and have a much better chance of finding empty seats than in 2ndclass and there are rows with just one seat in each row - a table in between with opposite seat facing is great for couples-an aisle and window seat -only in first class. If you ever want to talk to an expert by phone call Budget Europe and ask Byron - I've bought passes from him for years and he will take time to answer objectively IME anything(www.budgeteuropetravel.com) - www.seat61.com has great advice on the discounted ticket route; www.ricksteeves.com has great descriptions of trains like difference between first and second class.

but I think some kind of Eurailpass is likely to be great deal for you with all your travel by train - even with supplements in Italy.

Mimar

<<1 week to see Florence, Rome And Venice based out of Florence, exit Venice and 1week to see Vienna, Salzburg, Munich and Bavaria based out of Salzburg. From there we planned to go to Brussels and base ourselves there for a week or so and see Paris + Versailles in 3 days>>

You gotta be kidding.

How long is this trip all together? At some point there will be a rebellion. Just too much travel, too little time spent seeing the sights. Also smelling the roses.

neckervd

Dachau concentration camp with kids? May be not the best idea.
Only Europapark for the kids? Add at least Gardaland (close to Peschiera on Lake Garda) and of course the Prater in Vienna. There are also tons of adventure parks all over Europe, like the Rhine Falls adventure Park.
Advantages of all kinds of Swiss Travel Passes: you have to pay nothing for kids up to the age of 16.
I suppose you will have to define clearly what you really want to do in the Black Forest area

PalenQ

neck- is the Family Pass for free travel for kids under 16- free at Swiss stations - like it is if bought with any kind of pass - I've seen conflicting info -can you just go up and ask for a Family Pass or do the parents (only parents I think) have to have some kind of pass or ticket?

Thanks - you're the Swiss transports expert on Fodor's!

pbal

Thanks @ Palenq, I too am thinking the Global Pass might not be as useful as a combination of Eurail and single-country passes. The Germany pass seems to also cover travel to and from most neighbouring country capitals; and I should probably freeze my itinerary before I compare costs on the 'Saver' passes. Swiss pass (maybe a 2-day pass?) and Italipass seem to be more attractive on their own - forgot if I checked if they cover travel to next country destination (e.g. Florence/Milan and Vienna).

@Mimar, yes I realised I am trying to cram a lot into a short time (tried my boss that 1 month was too short a time but he wasn't have by any of it !). There was rebellion in the ranks when I said we could see only one of the museums+factory visits for either Porsche/MercedesBenZ/BMW between Stuttgart and Munich..

@ neckervd, Dachau had only 2 takers - me and my older teen; so am seeing if we should split up for half a day while the other two go to the Palaeontological or Natural History museum...

pbal

Autocorrect glitch: I was saying that I tried telling boss that 1 month was too short a time but he wasn't having any of it

neckervd

Palen wrote:
Eurailpass: "Visp to Zermatt no coverage"
That's obviously not correct.

See my post above concerning Eurailpass:

"Bernese Oberland:
Golden Pass Montreux - Gstaad - Spiez - Interlaken Lucerne is included. But you will have to pay at least 75 per cent of the standard fare if you want to go from Interlaken into the mountains (Wengen, Muerren, Grindelwald, Jungfrau)

Valais/Grischun:
Glacier/Bernina Express Zermatt - Visp - Andermatt - Chur - St. Moritz - Tirano included. Absolutely no reduction on cog wheel railways, rope railways and aerial cableways. But as most of the mountain railways in Valais are cheaper than in the Jungfrau area, you will pay less even without any discount.

Lucerne area:
Lucerne - Engelberg included. Half fare for Rigi and Pilatus. 25 per cent discount for Titlis and Stanserhorn."

PalenQ

Well that's new then - Visp to Zermatt being covered by Eurail - thanks for update -never was before - at least until last few years.

PalenQ

The Glacier Express
Eurail pass holders get a 25% discount on this scenic train, travelling over 291 bridges and through 91 tunnels. This discount is only valid on the route Zermatt - Brig - Disentis.

Eurail pass holders travel for free between Disentis and St. Moritz / Davos.

neckervd-this from eurail.com site -says 25% discount -may I ask where your info that it is wholly covered by Eurail comes from?

The 25% off is new too.

I have to take this current info from Eurail itself to be valid?

Swiss Pass of course 100% covered.

neckervd

https://www.sbb.ch/...karten...karte...gsbereich_s.sp...

PalenQ

Can't open that -can you paste and copy the portion>

Can Eurail itself be wrong? Could be I guess. It's rather important to me to know what is current policy right now. Thanks for your help.

neckervd

i https://www.sbb.ch/content/sbb/de/de...r.download.pdf.

PalenQ

OK thanks -shows Brig to Zermatt fully covered by a short gap of GExpress route not covered in full by Realp.

Good news for Eurail holders!

Thanks

neckervd

Oberwald - Realp: do you mean the Furka Tunnel? It's fully covered like the Simplon Tunnel, the 2 Loetschberg tunnels and the 2 Gotthard tunnels.

PalenQ

Oops - thought the small dotted lines meant half off but it is a narrow-gauge tunnel I guess - again thanks and will update my info on Eurails -the map is definitive and eurail.com probably not up to date yet -could be new.

Thanks again -I always know you are right.

PalenQ

The Germany pass seems to also cover travel to and from most neighbouring country capitals;>

not just capitals but Venice and Verona in addition to Prague and Brussels.

That 20% off on Eurails though is enticing - if you come up with a firm itinerary or kind of before the deadline and again the pass is first class so when comparing to 2nd class fares keep that in mind - that in most countries there is a significant different -again especially in finding empty seats.

So many times have I been so happy to have a first-class pass!

PalenQ

If you are just going to Germany, Switzerland and Italy then yes a German Pass and Swiss Pass plus discounted tickets in Italy would give you more pass days at a cheaper per day price (can still buy first class) than the Global Pass.

Is that all you are doing? those 3 countries?

pbal

Well, it has evolved a bit since my last posting; so more like 5-6 countries ��. We will come in to Paris and see Paris+Versailles+parc asterix or Disney and a little bit in the Benelux (still detailing it out) and then will come to Karlsruhe.

Black Forest + Stuttgart (2-3 days) with Karlsruhe as my base: I expect to have an economical stay option at Karlsruhe and distances to most Black Forest towns seems less than 2 hours, can you suggest which is the best place to get the Black Forest feel if we only use public transport (prefer trains) for day trips? I saw some of your earlier comments about touristy locations in Black Forest area but if I only use train from Karlsruhe what can I cover in Day 1 and on Day 2. If I want to include Heidelberg will I miss more scenic parts of Black Forest area? Please comment.

Post this I have a day for Stuttgart and the auto museums and the Daimler Sindelfingen factory. Any suggestions on best sequence if Porsche museum + Mercedes Benz museum plus Sindelfingen.

Switzerland 2-3 days: From Karlsruhe I am thinking about heading to Interlaken for a couple of days and Staying at Zurich/Chur for the last night to catch connection to Chur for the Bernina Express. From South and West, all connections to Chur seem to go through Zurich?

From there onward into Italy before swinging back into Munich from Salzburg.

Question of passes remains - I am inclined to take the Germany pass per Mark Smith's (seat61) suggestion with Swiss half off pass - but will probably decide after my Italy plans are final.

PalenQ

Question of passes remains - I am inclined to take the Germany pass per Mark Smith's (seat61) suggestion with Swiss half off pass - but will probably decide after my Italy plans are final.>

Probably best!