sebinah

We are in our 60's and like to do light hiking. We want to spend the first week of July 2007 in Switzerland and the week after that in Gordes, France. I may need to make the plane reservations fairly soon, we have mileage with United. We will fly out of Marseilles on our return trip. Where do you suggest we fly into - eastern France of somewhere in Switzerland. We live near the mountains (Lake Tahoe) and looking forward to seeing the Switzerland mountains.

For a slow paced couple, what would be the "must sees" for a week? Also should we rent a car (we will need one in Province) or should we use public transportation in Switzerland?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Sebina

enzian

Well, you'll get lots of opinions here, but I'll start. Since you live above 6,000 feet at Tahoe, you will have no trouble with the altitude in the mountain villages in Switzerland. You do not need a car to go anywhere; we enjoy two-week hiking vacations there and take the trains and lifts. The Swiss transportation system is a joy.

Before I make any specific suggestions as to towns and hikes, I'd like to know what you mean by "light hiking." How many miles and how much elevation gain? Paved paths (which abound in Switzerland) or well-graded trails? Is there something in the Tahoe area (or specifically Desolation Valley, which I know quite well) that you could name as your ideal kind of hike?

Do you wish to spend your full week in one place, or travel around a bit to see two (or three) different areas?

Here is one place that I consider a "must see", but others will have suggestions of their own:
www.oeschinensee.ch

There is a mountain hotel by the lake that is a lovely place to stay. This is near the town of Kandersteg, which is on one of the main train lines, easily accessible from many directions.

enzian

I see I didn't answer your flight question. We always fly into Zürich; there is a train station right in the airport and there are direct trains from there to Interlaken, Kandersteg, and other places. Other trains take you to the main Zürich station, where you can catch a train anywhere.

The Geneva airport also has a station right in the airport. I have found flights into Geneva to be much more expensive, but that wouldn't apply to mileage flights. So perhaps your decision could wait until you figure out where in Switzerland you want to go.

Edward2005

Here are some possibilities.

1. Fly into Zurich, take the train to St. Moritz, rent a car, and wander around the Engadine valley for a week. I haven't been to this region, but it gets rave reviews, so a search should yield plenty of suggestions.

2. Fly into Zurich, take the train to Lauterbrunnen and use public transportation to explore the Berner Oberland for a week. Area has lake cruises, hiking and biking trails for all difficulty levels, indoor pools, camping, waterfalls galore, Schilthorn cable ride, the Jungfraujoch, a casino, an open-air folk museum, and rumors of cheese.

3. Fly into Geneva, take the train to Montreux, Vevey, or one of the other towns on Lake Geneva. Explore the area via train for a week. Lake cruises, good nightlife, wine country, daytrips to Matterhorn are feasible (I think), and a major jazz festival in July.

sebinah

You are all so helpful. Actually we live at sea level near San Francisco. By light hiking I mean we go slow and not much climbing, DH has severe pulmonary problems and I trashed my knee skiing. Still a problem after several surgeries and rehab. So we can't hike great distances or do much elevation gain but we really like doing the beginning of a trail to get the feel. Also I feel we are limited, except for a short time, to 6,000-8,000 feet. That said, I have it in my head to take the tram to the top of Mont Blanc in France. We are fascinated by the fact that it is the highest place in Europe AND that is has a 20 km long
ski trail - only in our dreams. Still I would love to go to the top if it is not too difficult. Any suggestions are appreciated. You Fodorites were a tremendous help on our recent first trip to France.

enzian

Hi again,

Ok, then maybe level hikes from the top of a lift in Switzerland, if not too high? A mile or two OK? There are lots of possibilites for that. Any trouble for your husband staying/sleeping in a village around 5,000 to 6,000 feet? Or would you rather be lower?

Will you be going to Mt. Blanc on this trip? The highest tram doesn't actually go to the top of Mt. Blanc (15,000+ feet, but rather to the Aguilles du Midi (11,000+ feet). I haven't done it, but my son skied there last March, down the Mer de Glace from the top. . .

Anyway, back to this trip---I'll wait for ideas from others before I continue.

sebinah

Enzian, you really are helpful. It has been a childhood dream for me to see Switzerland some day and I realize I know very little about it except that it is beautiful and has mountains. I'm not sure about staying at 5-6,000 feet. We haven't done that for 15 years unfortunately we have gotten 15 years older. I forgot to mention that we only have mileage for one ticket so hopefully the mileage route will have a price that I can take the same flights. Not absolutely necessary but definitely would be much better for lots of reasons. Thanks again.

WallyKringen

Switzerland has a wonderful network of "Wanderwege" - hiking trails, but the word hiking is not quite adequate, a "Wanderung" - the act of "wandern" is more like a nature walk. They can be fairly strenuous if it is severely up-and-down country you're in, but they don't have to be, they are found everywhere, on the flat and in hilly country as well as in the mountains.

They usually lead to a bus stop or a train station and, whenever possible, they stay away from roads.

They are signed very well with easily recognizable yellow signs and markers, with the distances given not just in km but in time, how long it takes to the posted destinations - based on the comfortable speed a family with kids can achieve.

I'm having trouble finding an official book put out by the Wanderwege organization that lists them in English. There must be one, but... There are also maps that highlight these Wanderwege, it's a hugely popular and well supported institution.

Meanwhile, look at this site for inspiration:

www.traveling.ch/index2.php?title=hikes and look at this page for several books that you might want to order from your local library or bookshop:

www.traveling.ch/index2.php?title=books

Since Swiss (the airline that came out of the bankrupt Swissair) has been gobbled up by Lufthansa which is a partner of United, you may be able to fly into Geneva GVA airport on your miles.

Or fly into Zürich - if anything, Z. is offering more opportunities all around, you've already been given many good ones.

No need for a car, it would be more of a hindrance than not.

Both the Engadin region and the Berner Oberland region are wonderful, google each and see for yourself. Don't forget the Säntis, Titlis, Rigi, Pilatus, Niesen, Niederhorn, Brienzer Rothorn - google each and map them so that you begin to get a sense of where things are.

Happy research!


WK

phyllis_stein

This thread is timely -- and helpful! I'm beginning to plan a similar trip this early (for similar reasons) and we're hoping for Switzerland + Provence as well.

Thanks to sebinah for starting the topic and for all the helpful replies.

sebinah

phyllis stein: We just returned from 4 days in Provence and 4 days Riviera. Our favorites were Gordes, St. Remy and St. Paul de Vence (20 miles uphill from Nice). Let me know if you want more info. Sebina

sunstar

The Jungfrau is a nice area to spend about a week. There are many easy, moderate to very difficult hikes out of this area.

This area is a hot spot for international tourists. Lots of British, American and Japanese tourists. Some people are turned off by the big crowds.

You might want to visit the Kandersteg area. There are some fine hikes in that area also, but in my opinion there are a wider range of easy to moderate hikes in the Jungfrau area.

If you stayed in Jungfrau region, it is my opinion you can go without a car. Trains or cable systems in the area will take you to all the top places.

Now what Jungfrau area village to stay in is the key question? Wengen? Murren? Grindlewald? Merrigen area? Lake towns such as Thun?

I enjoy Grindlewald because of the slightly increased night time activity and close proximity to great hikes.

But there are some misguided people in here who might not like that. LOL

If you decide to stay in Jungfrau region, let us know.

mcmrjm

We've just returned from 3 weeks in the Alps...Switzerland, Germany, Austria and a little bit of France. I have all good intentions of doing a report...as soon as the jet lag subsides! In the mean time...a few short things. We flew Swiss Air into Zurich, took the train into town and spent one night at the Hotel Adler...nice location, in the old town, and nice hotel. Weather was wonderful, people were great and the scenery was spectacular. More later, I hope!

sebinah

Thanks again to everyone. I realized today that what would be the ultimate for me would be moderately priced accommodations on a lake near the mountains. Don't want much do I? Any suggestions? Sebina

sunstar

>>>Thanks again to everyone. I realized today that what would be the ultimate for me would be moderately priced accommodations on a lake near the mountains. Don't want much do I? Any suggestions? Sebina<<<<<

Sounds like Thun or Spietz might be what you're looking for in a place to stay that is close to some beautiful mountains.

Both towns, you can be up high in the mountains in a fairly short amount of time.

When I am in this area, I usually ride the boat over to Thun.

Btw, what a nice part of the USA you live at. Did you know that the many scenes from the old classic TV show Bonanza were shot in the Tahoe area?

I bet yah didn't? LOL Anyway, I feel Thun or Spietz might be your answer.

I have never stayed in either one of those lake towns, but I have been to both places. Really not much to do there other than base yourself in this region for excursions and such. I think both towns should work for the homebase aspect and all.

enzian

Sebinah,

As a child living in California I, like you, always dreamed of Switzerland. My first time there was at age 54 and I have been back almost every year since. Like you I have blown out my knees with skiing, but have rehabilitatied them wiht bicycling. With poles, I can hike almost anywhere, and even climb mountains. But I am very understanding of your needs and want to help you find the right place for you.

Did you look at the website I suggested? That is a beautiful, peaceful lake in the mountians. A double room at the hotel there is CHF 160, with breakfast. But there are other lakes that are lovely too---Brienz, Thun, Luzern, etc., I just haven't stayed at those and don't know what to suggest (I'm sure others will). If budget is tight, your best bet is to get an apartment and stay for one week in one place. Or you could divide your week and stay half at a lake and half in Mürren, a lovely car-free village above the Lauterbrunnen valley. I know of a B & B there where you could get a double room for CHF 80-100. This is the view from the tennis courts in Mürren:
http://topspin.smugmug.com/gallery/885501/9 and this is the view down into the valley from there:
http://topspin.smugmug.com/gallery/885501/8/44096120

But I would need to check the altitude of the village for you (or you could google it).

As for flights, sometimes the cheapest place to fly in is Milan, which also gives very easy access to Switzerland. Or, my kids (who live in San Francisco) do very well with Lufthansa flight (on United miles) from SFO to Munich. A little farther, but also easy train access to the Alps.

sebinah

Thanks again.

sunstar, I actually live four hours from Tahoe, about 50 minutes south of San Francisco.

Enzian, you really understand our limitations and have been very helpful. I like your idea of staying at 2 places in Switzerland. I have wondered if we should mail our Provence luggage items to our hotel so we have even less to carry in Switzerland. Any thoughts?

Where in Calif. did you grow up and where do you live now? Switzerland every year sounds wonderful but I also love the beach at Kapalua.

Thanks again. The best advice is from someone who has stayed there.

Sebina

sebinah

Enzian, I talked to United and they can take us to either Geneva or Zurick with only one stop (Munich ro Frankfort). Do you agree that this is good routing and least tiring?

Sebina

enzian

Sebina,

Those are both fine choices---the long overseas flight from SFO to Europe, and then a short hop to your destination. We always fly that way from Seattle---the long 9-hour flight first; no worries about connecting in Chicago or New York. Also, the flights generally depart the west coast in the evening, and if you can sleep on the plane you arrive the next day in reasonable shape. Whether your short hop is to Geneva vs. Zürich depends on where you want to go in Switzerland, but I think Zürich might be a little better for access to lakes and Alps, and will likely be less expensive for the one paid ticket.

As for where . . . you might start by checking trip reports here. Several people have just returned from Switzerland, and the report on Brienz, in particular, might interest you. The author is "modeb" on that one, but you could find it by putting "Brienz" in the search box--the report is titled "Mesmerizing Switzerland". There is also LLindaC's report on the Engadine area, and another one on a "Swiss Retreat" that is very thoughtful and descriptive. Also Budman's report on the Grindelwald area, which is a good read.

Good choices for your lake stay would be Brienz, Luzern, and possibly Kandersteg (at Oeschinensee---but you must ride a chairlift to get there!!)
For the "mountain" part, you could stay in a lovely car-free village like Wengen or Mürren (If the altitude is OK; I still need to find out how high it is). Or the town of Lauterbrunnen, in a valley that looks somewhat like Yosemite---if it had a town in the valley and villages perched up at Glacier Point and on Sunnyside Bench opposite (those towns, so you can picture the situation, would be Wengen and Mürren). There is a lot of discussion of those towns here, just search under the three names.

A good guidebook for you to look at would be "Swiss Bernese Oberland: a Summer Guide with Specific Trips to the Mountains, Lakes and Villages", by Philip & Loretta Alspach. I like this one because it has lots of photos. I have often chosen a destination (Mürren, for example) from seeing a photo and deciding "I want to go there!"

For your luggage---someone here (Schuler or Swandav) has mentioned a baggage transfer service offered by Swiss Rail---you give them your luggage in the airport, and it shows up at your destination. Hopefully she will see this and explain how it works. Or you could check the Swiss rail website:
www.sbb.ch

As for your question about me---I grew up in Newport Beach, went to college in the Bay Area, and learned to ski at Alpine Meadows. Moved to Alaska right after college, but now live near Seattle.

altamiro

>I talked to United and they can take us to either Geneva or Zurick with only one stop (Munich ro Frankfort). Do you agree that this is good routing and least tiring?

In case you are flying via Franfurt and your stopover for the last leg to Switzerland is more than 2 hours, consider taking the train from Frankfurt directly to Switzerland - you would be there faster. Frankfurt airport is also a major long-distance train station with regular fast links to Switzerland.
Via Munich it would not work - flying

altamiro

>I talked to United and they can take us to either Geneva or Zurick with only one stop (Munich ro Frankfort). Do you agree that this is good routing and least tiring?

In case you are flying via Franfurt and your stopover for the last leg to Switzerland is more than 2 hours, consider taking the train from Frankfurt directly to Switzerland - you would be there faster than by waiting for your flight. Frankfurt airport is also a major long-distance train station with regular fast links to Switzerland.
Via Munich it would not work though.