escargot

Again, thanks to all who helped w/ replies to my other posts as I planned this trip. A few final questions

TRAIN: We are traveling by train and have tix in hand for the trip: Zurich to Luzern (3 hr stop) onto Lauterbrunnen; to Bern; to Basel; to Zurich. If we each bring one suitcase on wheels, are we ok negotiating trains or any problems/suggestions I should know.

SKI ?: family wants to ski our first four days while in Lauterbrunnen - can't imagine fitting ski clothes in lugggage too - anyone have experience with pre-shipping to destination in box and then sending home before we leave Lauterbrunnen? Or is it better to check in one separate suitcase w/ everyones ski clothes and negotiate that for our first leg of trip to Lauterbrunnen but then, what do I do with it?

Dec 23-Jan 4 GENERAL CLOTHING: Don't yell at me, I know I can check weather and I know some get frisky when posters ask about clothing; but here goes: not knowing how clear sidewalks/etc are and also if we want to enjoy walk/hike: are short waterproof hiking boots ok or safer to bring boots up to our knees? And then also just comfortable walking shoes or will there be too much snow for those? Clothing: for most restaurants, etc are we ok with casual pants/jeans/sweaters and one dressy outfit/ and otherwise layering with our one warmest New England coat/jacket.....is it similar to dressing for cold weather in our New England mountains in winter/ and warm lodges inside or is there some surprises I should know about.

RESTAURANTS: Any good suggestions for Lauterbrunnen area (Wengen, Murren, etc) , Bern or Basel welcomed.

FAV GUIDE BOOKS/WEB SITES also welcome as we prepare for choices on museums/restaurants/etc.
Have Fodors, Michelin.

Thank You !

Melnq8

Regarding luggage - keep in mind that some smaller train stations only have stairs, and dragging your luggage around can be a pain, but it's certainly not impossible.

Luggage storage on Swiss trains can be limited, but if you run into problems look for the bicycle cars, which have lots of room for luggage, skis, etc.

It's also possible to have your luggage shipped ahead of you via train from within Switzerland, but from what I understand, this service isn't as fast as it used to be. Suggest you check out the Swiss Rail site for details.

You can leave you luggage at train stations - there are large luggage lockers, but some are limited to 24 hours. There are also attended left luggage rooms in many of the larger train stations and the airports.

Don't see the need for boots that reach your knees - I've done plenty of winter hiking in Switzerland and my Solomon low hiking boots work great for both mountain and city walking.

Open trails will be groomed, and regular hiking boots with good traction should be fine for all walking conditions.

I have run into icy conditions on trails and wished I'd had some crampons to keep from falling. On one trip to Wengen I bought some crampons locally that strap to my boots, but I never seemed to have them when I needed them. You know how that goes.

Unless you're doing major hiking though, you should be fine with regular hiking boots.

I've found casual clothes to be fine for most restaurants, especially in the villages. One dressy outfit never hurts, especially if you're planning a big night out.

Plan on layering your clothing - a waterproof layer is always a good thing too - especially when hiking.

Have fun.

suze

As long as each person can lift their own suitcase (to go up the few narrow stairs to board the train, and possibly above their head to put into an overhead shelf, if there is not storage at the end of the car) you should be OK.

escargot

Melng8 thank you! excellent help. We would only be storing our luggage in Luzern during our 3 hr. layover, so I am hoping they have storage. I should have been more specific about that part - in Bern and Basel we will be going directly from train station to hotels for 4 day stays before heading (actually via an overnight to Konstanz, Germany) to fly home from Zurich. I pledge to pack light in my lightest bag....thanks again for all the great info.

kleeblatt

Regarding crampons, I just wore some on Sunday because the side roads where I live have compact snow. If you don't have boots with soles that grip, it can be very slick. I really liked them. I got mine at Migros for SFr. 25.--

Cicerone

I think it will cost more to ship your things from the US ahead of time than to buy them new, even at expensive Swiss prices, and even if you could find shops open on Christmas and the 26th (which you won't).

However, once you land at the airport, Swiss Rail will ship your luggage for you, and on the Zurich Airport to Lauterbrunnen route the do have the "Fast Baggage" guaranteed same day delivery by 6 pm if it is given to them at the airport by 9 am (not sure what time you arrive into Zurich). Take a look at http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/...isegepaeck.htm.. Even if you can't make this deadline, Swiss Rail can still ship your non-ski stuff and will deliver it within 48 hours (assuming you can wait that long for your stuff). Go to http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/...ck-schweiz.htm Even better, when you are done skiing in the Jungfrau area, you could send you ski things on to the airport and they will be waiting for you to collect them and check them in for your flight. This will save you from lugging them around to Bern, Basel and Konstanz. This is all very safe, and you can insure them as well for an extra charge.

In my experience, most Swiss train station have lifts or inclined walkways so you can roll your luggage to and from the trains without having to use stairs. Unfortunately the big problem they have is that almost all the trains themselves have stairs to get on and some trains are double deckers, so you do have to lug bags up at least a few stairs. IMO rolling suitcase are actually a liability here as they are heavy to lift up onto trains and hard to negotiate in narrow train aisles. I have found that duffle bags which can literally be thrown onto and off of trains work best (don't pack breakable things in them obviously). A big duffle with soft clothes and a small rolling suitcase can work well.

Lucerne is a major train station and has a large manned luggage room in addition to lockers so if you have all your luggage with you there won't be any issue storing it.

In towns like Basel, Bern and Zurich you won't have snow on the ground, it just doesn't stay around long if it snows and icy sidewalks don't seem to be an issue for some reason. In the mountain towns like Wengen and Murren sidewalks should be under a good bit of snow by Christmas so I agree that unless you are doing serious hiking you don't need crampons. Trails are snowpack or gravel depending on how much snow they have had. It is in Lauterbrunnen and places at lower elevations where you may have ice and want something to help you grip on slippery sidewalks, but good hiking boots should suffice, plain dress boots might be slippery.

The Swiss dress very casually for the most part. There are very few restaurants that will require a coat and tie and certainly not in the resort areas. I find rooms very overheated in winter, no need to worry about being cold.

Restaurants in Wengen: Hotel Caprice, Hotel Eiger (for fondue)
Restaurants in Murren: Hotel Eiger

Foundation Beyeler is definitely worth a few hours. Their website is beyeler.com/foundation. I have some restaurant reccos for Basel at home (am currently in India until next week) I can take a look.

Melnq8

Regarding luggage storage in the Luzern main train station:

They have large luggage lockers that cost 8 CHF for 24 hours - I think the lockers are located in the basement, but can't swear to that. We were able to get two 29" hardsided Samsonite suitcases into one locker with no problems.

escargot

WOW - thanks for all the great info everyone.
Melng8, Schuler, Suze great info, I need to print out and look into the web/info/etc tomorrow when I am more awake w/ coffee....
Cicerone - you answered by original switzerland post when I was planning and were so helpful then and again now - I can't believe you are in INDIA - my son wants to go there on his fall semester abroad in 06 and I am excited for him and apprehensive - I posted on Asia and got some responses but would LOVE to hear from you since you are there now, where? how? what do you think, etc. I hope you post a trip report.

escargot

p.s. we could wait for our luggage with ski clothes; the problem we are having is we weren't originally thinking of skiing at all, but as skiers, some have asked how could we go to Switzerland and NOT actually ski at least once - however, our only opportunity for that would be in Lauterbrunnen, and it would only mean skiing one day, since we also want to do the Schilthorn or Jungfrauhoc, and see Wengen, etc and only have 4 days in Lauterbrunnen....so we are trying to figure is it really worth it to go thru all the lugging of ski clothes for 1 day of skiing - is it so amazing in Lauterbrunnen and something we absolutely shouldn't miss just for the experience or could it be a "skip it" where we've skied New England, Canada, western U.S., etc...? Maybe I should post under "should I ski in Lauterbrunnen" and find those who have.....

Cicerone

Of if that is the case, please don't bother. IMO no it is not worth it to ski one day in the Jungfrau. The lift system is antiquated, esp getting up from Lauterbrunnen, you are going to be fighting people with suitcases going up by the train to Wengen and Murren and Grindelwald, and then you have to get on the cable cars. From Lauterbrunnen to get to your first ski trail would take you the better part of an hour at least if not more (I am guessing, have only gone out from Wengen, but I think this is an accurate guess). Would involove walking to the train in your ski boots, or renting equipment up in Wengen or Murren, way too much work for one day. Trails are narrow and a bit dark. There is much better skiing in the US, and much better skiing in Switzerland. To lug all that stuff for one day of skiing is not worth it. Grindelwald skiing has some fans here, but I don't think many people like Wengen or Mureen so much, and to get over to Grindlewald will take even longer.

Ingo

Why skiing only one day? You can see Wengen on a skiing day, and you can ski around Kleine Scheidegg and do the Jungfraujoch trip from there. Skiing is quite good in the Mürren/Schilthorn area too. Why not skiing there too?

I find the ski runs around Kleine Scheidegg/Männlichen to be NOT narrow and NOT dark. Yes, the run down to Wengen from Kleine Scheidegg is narrow and dark, but the runs to the eastern side are wide, above the tree line and usually have excellent snow. And almost all lifts are double/quad chairs, gondolas etc.

Of course, I don't know if it is worth to drag around that ski equipment from the US to Switzerland for 3 days ...

suze

Seems like it sure would simplify things if you skipped skiing this trip. Maybe save it for a future trip when you went to a single destination for the sole purpose of skiing and weren't moving around to so many places on the train?

escargot

Great input Ingo, Suze, Cicerone: I am now leaning towards nixing the ski day. We arrive the 23rd late afternoon and leave Lauterbrunnen area the 27th to head to Bern. in those 3 dys we want to visit all the places mentioned, and taking one day away to ski is seeming silly. Right, it is not one of our ski vacations - plus I would not ship our own equipment and don't want to lug our boots - and I am married to my Langes and my husband has special boots b/c of his feet, so renting boots while bringing no problems for the kids might for us, esp. husband...who at this point chooses only easy and wide. Thanks for all the personal experiences though, I needed that input to make the final decision. SO much better than what is found in the guide books, to hear it from those who have actually been for the details I needed on all issues.
So appreciate it for the time & effort for the detailed posts, and I will keep the info/shipping/etc for when we do an actual ski trip to Switz or Europe. So ski and train and luggage are now wrapped up, I might post separate for more restaurant ideas when it gets closer. MANY thanks again.

Pawleys

I have to agree with Ingo that skiing in the area is memorable. We spent 4 days over the Xmas holidays in Wengen with our college age children and will never forget it. We ski a couple of times a year in the Rockies and the conditions are hard to beat; but, this was a unique experience for us.
We skiied down to Grindenwald one day and another ski day we toured the Jungfraujoch after lunch. We rented skis and boots there and were able to wear our ski jackets for the entire trip. This trip was several years ago and my family has vowed to go back.

Phil

escargot:

When in Basel you might try "eo ipso" restaurant located in a former engine factory: excellent food, very casual and relaxed, bar adjacent. It is located in a working-class district (perfectly safe) just south of the main railway station.

In the same former factory area is "blinde kuh" (blind cow), a restaurant where you will be served by blind and visually impaired staff. They have an advantage over you, as the dining room is pitch dark. An interesting experience to say the least.

More upscale (though no need of a jacket or formal wear) is "Acqua" housed in the former water works near "Heuwaage" square: a restaurant serving modern Italian cuisine.

Enjoy your trip

Phil.

(Ask Ingo about other sites to visit in Basel; Hi Ingo ;-) !)

kleeblatt

I agree. Forget skiing because of all the extra luggage. GO SLEDDING instead. You can rent sleds for SFr. 12.--/day and they have at least four prepared runs in the Grindelwald area.

escargot

phil thanks for the restaurant picks, we will definitely try them all - and Schuler I love the sledding idea-thanks!