Suzanne

I am planning my first trip to Europe for next summer. Unfortunately, I only have 10-13 days. I will hit London, Paris then travel to Italy where I will spend the majority of my time. <BR> <BR>I plan to rail from Paris to Milan and have a couple of questions about the rail trip through Switzerland: <BR>1) I am thinking about going through Bern, Brig, Zermatt. Will I be able to see the Jungfrau from Bern? I don't know if I will have time to go to Interlaken <BR>2) Does Zermatt have moderately priced or inexpensive lodging <BR>3) Is Lake Maggiore as pretty as Lake Como? I was wondering if I should continue straight from Zermatt to Milan or detour east then down through Como to Milan <BR>Any suggestions would be appreciated

Katherine

Suzanne, We made this trip in June and I have to say that the trip from Bern to Milan was the most spectacular scenery I've ever seen. You have to change trains in Bern. You may want to spend a night there but don't get there on a Sunday. Everything is closed. Maggiore is beautiful. We didn't stop there but passing it made me want to go back. It's different than Como but as beautiful.

Russell Wayne

Glad to hear you have plenty of time to plan your trip. The bad news is that you won't have much time on the trip. For London and Paris, you'll need at least three or four days in each just to scratch the surface. Add in travel time and you'll have no more than a few days in Italy. Quite frankly, in the amount of time you have available, three significant stops along the way is about all that makes sense. On the ride from Paris to Milan, the most interesting part is through the Alps. Try to schedule so that will come during the day time. There's not much to see in Bern, so forget that. Brig is where you change trains to get to Zermatt. It's not a destination. Zermatt is an easy trip from there, but loaded with tourists and in the opinion of many people a far less worthwhile destination than the Bernese Oberland, which is the area surrounding Interlaken and certainly among the most beautiful on the planet. You cannot see the Jungfrau from Bern. It's over an hour away. Zermatt does have reasonably priced lodging, but I don't see how it will be possible given the logistics you have outlined. The Italian lakes are reasonably attractive, but hardly as appealing as those in the Bernese Oberland (Thunersee and Brienzersee). I've stayed at both. My best suggestion is for you to give serious thought to simplify your plans. Once you do, you'll end up with a far more enjoyable trip.

jw

Hello, Suzanne, <BR> <BR>I've got to jump in here to add another point of view: Berne is lovely, an old town with arcades and painted fountains. Thunersee and Brienzersee are gorgeous, but Lago Maggiore has its own 'southern' beauty. Like our gentleman above, I've stayed on both lakes. T & B are more calendar 'Swiss', Lago Maggiore is more Italian. You just have to decide what appeals to you. I was a devoted visitor to lakes Thun and Brienz for years and couldn't imagine staying anywhere else. Then one year I gave Lac Leman and Lago Maggiore a visit and fell in love with them. I'll agree with the opinion that you are trying to scan too many places in a short period of time. Perhaps we've misunderstood; are you asking simply for a rail route through Switzerland rather than a place to stay? If so, we're chattering on for no reason. In that regard, my only contribution is to consider a rail route that goes from Paris to Lucerne to Milan. I found the rail route from Lucerne to Lugano to be spectacular. Have fun with your planning; it's a great part of the fun, isn't it? (Maybe you could at least consider saving London for another trip and fly into Paris and out of Milan?)

Suzanne

Thank you for the replies! I really appreciate it because I can make decisions for what I most want to do. I had planned on two days in London and two days in Paris. I know that is quick but my plan was to do the highlights in each city knowing I will probably come back in the future. Museums are the big time consumers and I will limit myself to one or two (That will be difficult in Paris!). The great thing is that things are still in the flexible stage. <BR> <BR>I may go from Paris to Intelaken, then travel to Italy the next day. Zermatt was of interest because I wanted to see the Matterhorn, but pehaps I could make Zermatt just a brief train stop - if the train schedule permits. <BR> <BR>I would love to get other people's opinions. Should I spend more time in Interlaken or around the Italian Lakes area? What is your favorite area? <BR>

Philip

Avoid Zermatt on a Sunday. Almost everything is closed.

Tom

In my opinion, your itinerary sounds way too hectic. You could easily spend two weeks in any one of these cities...too much rushing in and out. Why don't you just select one or two cities for your 2 week trip, or at worst just spend the two weeks in one country.. otherwise you're not really going to see anything. <BR>Just thought I'd share my opinions for what it's worth.

Myer

I've been to Bern several times and think it's beautiful. Spend half a day at least walking around the old part of town. <BR>I would train from Bern to Brig. On this trip you might get a glimpse of the Jung.. but the only good way is to take a day and go to Lauterbrunen and then beyond. <BR>The train ride from Bern to Brig is great. I would skip Zermatt except for that view of the Matterhorn. Very touristy. Brig on the otherhand was a terrific surprise. Spent the evening and night there. <BR>We also thought Como and the center of the Lake were worth the trip. Beautiful towns Bellagio, etc.

Suzanne

I was originally just looking for a panoramic way to get from Paris to Milan. I wanted to get ideas then decide where I would stay. This is a slowly evolving trip. All of your advice is greatly appreciated! Already I am thinking about making Bern a base, and doing the Interlaken to Murren train loop. I went to the book store after reading the first few responses and that trip is an easy day trip. I won't be staying in the Italian Lake region, just hope to get a good look at the lake region to plan for a future trip. From what I have read of the maps, the trains seem to pass by the lakes. <BR> <BR>So far, this is what the trip looks like <BR>days 1-2 London (I am usually pretty good getting over jet lag. I am assuming leave NYC in the early evening, arrive in London around 8 am the next day. I fly alot so I can sleep upright!). <BR>Days 3-4 Paris <BR>Day 5 TGV to Bern then to Jungfrau area <BR>Day 6 Bern to Milan or Venice (essentially a travel day) <BR>Day 7 Venice (no museums, just float around and soak up the essence of the city) <BR>Day 8 Florence (again, just want to see "david" and again wander around and soak up the flavor of the City and enjoy some tuscan food!) <BR>Day 9 Pisa then on to Rome <BR>Days 10-13 Rome or Days 10-12 Rome and Day 13 side trip to Naples <BR> <BR>Each major city there are only 1-2 major museums or time consuming things I want to see. The rest of the time is leisurely roaming. I wanted to focus just on Italy, but I figured since I was going to Europe, I could do an overview, then focus on my favorite for the next trip. <BR> <BR>Again thank you for your advice. My schedule is by no means carved in stone and as I learn more, the itin. will change. Please feel free to offer more advice. <BR>

Ed

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Russell Wayne

Suzanne, your revised schedule reminds me of my earliest trips to the continent. The temptation was to try to see everything. With a few months, you have a chance to see a few things. With a week and a half, it is highly unlikely that you will accomplish much more than being on the go constantly and having your experiences turn into a blur. Especially if you allowed barely a day in each place and then have to rush off to the next stop. Unless your goal is to check off as many sights as possible in the shortest period of time, the potential satisfaction level will probably be very low. If you really want this to work, consider eliminating a few stops and spending more time in those that remain. Of those listed, Bern is, in my opinion, immediately expendable. If you choose Interlaken instead, you'll have a much better sense of the Switzerland you've seen in pictures. Yes, Interlaken is loaded with tourists, but you don't have to stay dead center. Still, you would need a full day to get a taste of the valley below the Jungfrau. To do nothing more than pass through and take a peak at the peaks seems like a lot of effort for not very much. Similarly, if the tourist hot spots are your preference, I'd skip Milan and go straight to Venice. From that point, you may want to eliminate Pisa and Naples, going just to Florence and Rome. Pisa has the tower and lots of places to buy t-shirts. Period. Naples? Well, that's another story. Florence is relatively small and Rome is huge. But they may be more to your liking. What will make the time issue even more difficult is that you'll be tied to the train schedule. If and when you hit a snag, the whole plan could be scuttled. Unless this is the only trip you'll ever take to Europe, the less you try to do, the happier you'll be.

Suzanne

Thanks again Ralph for the valuable info. This trip started out as a trip to Rome, then a trip to Italy, then a rationalization, "if you are going to Italy, why not see a little of the rest of Europe." I could end up just visiting Italy. I am still in the dream stage. Once I really start to hammer out the flight - train - hotel details, things will be dropped! <BR> <BR>I won't be stopping in Milan at all unless I have to change trains. I guess I was just describing my train route according to Rail Europe. Naples will only be a pizza stop. I may add two days and stay in Sorrento. Then I would be able to see Pompeii or tour the Amalfi coast. <BR> <BR>Three quick questions <BR>1. Is Capri worth seeing? <BR>2. Does the Amalfi coast live up to the hype? <BR>3. What is Naples like? You said that "was another story". I would like to hear it!!! ;-)

Russell Wayne

Suzanne, <BR>It sounds like you're moving in the right direction. Once you get into the logistics, the realization of how big a bite you're taking will set in. In answer to your latest questions: <BR>Both Capri and the Amalfi coast are well worth seeing. As far as Naples is concerned, rather than provoking a flame war, I'd rather not comment. It is not one of my favorite places. I prefer tidier environments. If you can extend to a full two weeks, I think you have a reasonable shot at five or six venues, perhaps starting in Venice, then stopping at Florence, Siena, Rome, the Amalfi coast, and Capri. That's still a bit of a push, but not totally out of the question. The logistics will be far simpler and you'll be far happier. You still have lots of time to plan. If indeed you're thinking of cutting back, you might want to come up with a tentative plan and then work in the details of traveling from place to place as well as your lodgings en route. My guess is that this will be very helpful. Unless you're prepared to accept any kind of rooms and meals along the way, I'd recommend giving up any thought of winging it. The nicer accommodations are all booked many months in advance. For next summer, reservations should be made at least six months ahead to assure you get what you want.

Myer

Yes!! Capri IS worth seeing. Don't waste your time (and get sea sick) visiting the Blue Grotto. Beautiful Island to walk around. Spectacular sights. Visit both side Capri and Anacapri. <BR>Yes the Amalfi Coast is also worth (what is worth?) the time and effort. <BR>I've only been to Naples to change trains and always warned about holding onto everything while there. <BR>By the time you go the original plan won't resemble the final plan. Try leaving something for next time. <BR>

Suzanne

Thank you Ralph and Myer so very much! Your information is very valuable! And Myer you are correct, I will leave alot for the next trip. <BR>In thinking about this trip it has actually been painful to eliminate possible destinations. It make me wonder why some of my fellow Americans would ask the very stupid question <BR> "What's over there worth seeing?" . ( from another post in this subject area)

Myer

Way back when I was planning our first trip to Europe someone said 'seen one Alp, seen them all'. Oh well. <BR>Someone above suggested that Bern is expendable. I disagree. <BR>Bern is not only worth a good part of a day itself, if you check the train schedules you'll see how good a place it is to plan other trips. <BR>If you are interested, its about an hour to Montreux. Just south of Bern (20 minutes) on the way to Montreux is the town of Friburg. We stopped there for a few hours as a doctor I knew interned there. A college town. Beautiful! Hilly, river. The town is the dividing point between French and German Switzerland. Street signs are in both languages. Beautiful scenery. <BR>20 minutes east of Bern (on the way to Interlaken or Brig) is the town of Thun. Worth a short visit of a few hours. Interesting town. Roofs on main shopping street is sidealk of stores above. Castle on a hill above town, etc. <BR>Of course, Interlaken is probably less than an hour making a day trip to Lauterbrunen, Murren, Schilthorn or Wengen, etc possible. <BR>Even Lucerne (also very worth the visit) is little more than an hour away. You can choose either walking through the town for a day or train to Alpnachstad and take the steepest train up Mt Pilatus. If you leave Bern first thing in the morning and don't return until late in the evening, you could probably do both. <BR>Yes stay in Bern as a base. We've been there several times. Unfortunately won't be back there for a while as the next trip is Spain and then possibly back to Sorrent, Amalfi area. <BR>I just took a look at your original post. Everybody just skipped by Paris. World class city. Don't skip that!!

Tony

Suzanne.. <BR> <BR>You have received so many ideas already that I hesitate to buy into this, but I can't resist offering you a really scenic, albeit roundabout route thru Switzerland. It may sound complicated, but the Swiss trains are so comfortable and reliable, and the connections so good that it is really a lot easier than you would think. <BR>Late afternoon TGV train from Paris to Geneva, and then connection to Montreux for the night, running alongside Lake Geneva. <BR>Next day 9.a.m. Crystal Panoramic Express to Zweissimmen, with connection to Interlaken, from where you will see the Eiger and Jungfrau on a clear day. <BR>Train from Interlaken to Lucerne, then train from Lucerne over the Gothard Pass to Lugano for the night. <BR>You are now on the border of Italy, about 90 minutes from Milan, and you will have comprehensively covered the highlights of Switzerlands' scenery. <BR>Eurail passes cover all of the above. If you have the time spend a night in Lucerne and take a lake cruise - also covered by railpass - maybe in lieu of Lugano. There are several trains per day from Lucerne direct to Milan. <BR>If this appeals, and you have any trouble working out the trains email me and I'll put together a suggested schedule.

brownie

Hiya, <BR> <BR>I'm based in Bern at the moment and as most said, it is a lovely town that you can spend a day in (not more). To your earlier question about seeing JungFrau from Bern ... you can .. only if it is a good day and usually in autumn/winter. The view then is spectacular. <BR> <BR>Montreaux is a great place to stop.. after stopping in bern, it's a good way to gauge the difference in a german swiss town and a french swiss town. Montreaux is also host to Chateau Chillon which is agreat Chateau to wander through. <BR> <BR>We stayed in Sorrento for three days and did Pompeii in one day, Herculaneum and Vesuvius in the other and Capri in the third. I don't know about the blue grotto being a waste of time ..sea sick??? I wouldn't have though. It's touristy .. but interesting. But Capri is a wonderful island to just walk around. I am not a big fan of Naples.

Myer

Tony and Brownie have mentioned a few more places of interest. Lugano is also of worth a visit. Also, once you're at the Italian border (either train from Bern-Brig-Milan or Montreux-Lucerne-Lugano) why not a day in Como and another in Bellagio down the middle of Lake Como. I think we've planned Suzanne's trips for the next several years. <BR>Tony. After arriving in Capri, to get to the Blue Grotto you take a boat (15 minutes), wait your turn for an hour bobbing in the water (this is the sea sick part). The entrance is very (very) small. The boats that go in hold only 3-4 people and you must lie down in the boat to fit through the entrance. You transfer to the little row boat (pay again to get into the Grotto after having paid for the first boat). <BR>All this for a five minute look at a blue light shining up from the water. The guide who rows your boat then sings Volare (yes!), tells you he doesn't get paid asking for a tip and that's it. <BR>If we had realized what's involved we would have spent the wasted 2 hours exploring more of the Island. Capri is truely beautiful. <BR>

Russell

I'll remain among the naysayers when it comes to Bern. Without the hordes of tourists, the old city might be interesting, but it's well down the list of Swiss highlights in my book. And, the crowds are a given. What's more, the setting in no way compares with that of Luzern or Interlaken. <BR>Tony's suggested train route makes sense to me, especially the Panoramic through Zweissimmen. I'd plan a stopover in Interlaken rather than Montreux, so you can get up into the mountains, and then another stopover in Luzern, where you'll be lakeside and will have the opportunity to take a short cruise. In that way you would at least get a glimpse of the broad range of Swiss scenery and still have reasonable access to Italy. Yes, do plan to spend some time in Paris.