nikidi

We are in our mid thirties and have 2 kids 4-6 years old and have traveled extensively in Asia and in New Zealand (pretty much followed and added on to trip done by indiancouple) itinerary and now planning our first trip to Europe.

After reading many posts&trip reports and the LP guides, still not quite sure as to how to plan it. We usually travel independently and don’t take city tours etc..but after reading the reports am wondering whether it will best to take some city tours in Salzburg/Vienna/Prague in order to make the best of the short time we have?.

We have from the 19th JUL to the 5 of august. excluding the first travel day its 17days.

Tentative itinerary (Can fly into either Zurich or Geneva. And fly out of Vienna or Prague)

Luzern – 3 days? - lion monument, william tell route on lake Luzern, Trip to Mt Pilatus (is this recommended? )

Montreux -3days? – chateu di chillion , Lavoux express?? or is the Lavoux boat cruise better, Lousanne and Vevey??

Would like to visit a chocolate factory for the kids is it best to take the chocolate train to Broc what are the other options?

OB - Wengen 4 days (or Lauterbrunnen )– where should we base our selves?
Train to Lauterbrannen,lift to gratschalp, hike to Murren and then to Gimmelweld and lift down to Stechelberg
Lift to Mannlichen,Hike to Kleine Scheidgg and train to Jungfraujoch if weather is good
Walk to staubbach falls and L valley walk to trummelback falls?, Thun and Lake thun boat tour. Train to Grinderwald to hike to Lake Bachalpse?

Zermett (should this be saved for later during winter so that we could do prague in summer or is it better to drop prague and include Zermatt?

Salzburg - 2days
Vienna – 3 days – with a trip to the Wachau Valley

Prague?? - 3days

advise re itinerary , the route and rewarding hikes will be much appreciated.

Kessencj

Hello,

I am an American Student studying in Vienna for the semester so I can give you some tips while you are there. You are definitely going to want to check out Schonbrun Palace. It's massive, beautiful, based off of Versailles, and there's a zoo\maze for your kids.

I highly recommend getting a Smartguide if you want to get a great tour but do not want to be constrained by being in a group. It's essentially an Ipad with GPS guided walking tour that you can rent for the day. They deliver it right to your hotel or hostel. I was totally impressed by basic history and legends that it had. Much more informative and interesting than other walking tours I've done. http://smartguide.co.at/. That's their website to reserve one.

A cool open air market in vienna is the Naschmarkt. Great place to go for dinner to sit outside at relatively cheap restaurants.

The Wachau is beautiful I recommend a biking tour/wine tasting. http://www.viennaexplorer.com/tours/grape-grazing-tour/ The bike itself was super easy so if they have bikes with kid seats on the back it's definitely worth it.

Also, I did Salzburg in a single day and was more than satisfied with it. If you do it for 2 days that is fine but I do not recommend staying for 2 nights.

<hope some of this helps. Enjoy your time

fourfortravel

Regarding Vienna, you could easily fill three days without a trip to the Wachau Valley (which would be long and dull for your children). Some suggestions:

Day 1. Schloss Schonbrunn (the Imperial Summer Palace) includes a child-size maze and labyrinth and the world's oldest zoo (Tiergarten Schonbrunn). By the time the family has walked the length of the gardens and explored the grounds, a stop for ice cream at the Gloriette would be just the energy boost to tackle the zoo before calling it a day.

Day 2. Vienna is hot in July. The Prater, a vintage amusement park, offers rides for the little ones and a pleasant outing for parents, as well. Family-size bicycles can be rented to enjoy the lanes of Vienna's biggest greens pace (aside from the vineyards.)

Day 3. Speaking of vineyards, take the 38A bus to Kahlenberg in the morning for remarkable views over the city. Wander back down through the vineyards (it is not uncommon to see hikers sampling the grapes!) and enjoy a late lunch in one of the very family-friendly heuriger in Grinzing.

Got rain, or want to escape the heat? The Museum of Natural History offers galleries of all the stuffed birds and animals you could ever want. Hofburg Palace (the Imperial winter residence) has children-specific tours (as does Schonbrunn). Stephansdom has great family tours, as well. There are also public swimming pools in each of the city districts, many of which have specific areas for children.

Dukey1

Regarding Zermatt. IMO unless you are going to do a lot of hiking the main thing to see in Zermatt is the Matterhorn peak and that is best viewed from above the village and you will hopefully have a clear day.

After spending so much time in the Berner Oberland I would skip Zermatt especially if you are going to do Vienna as well as Prague.

nikidi

thank you for the tips on Austria,fourfortravel and Dukey1. the smartguide sounds really interesting!

would appreciate advise on the Switzerland itinerary and the route

plus on zermatt vs Prague!
Wengen vs Lauterbrunnen base in OB.!!

nikidi

and thnx Kessencj

swandav2000

Hi nikidi,

I'll try to help with some of the Switzerland bit.

I wouldn't want to take the Lavaux Express because I like walking or biking through the vineyards, up close. If you want a short walk, just take the train to Chexbres and walk downhill to Rivaz (about 30 or 40 minutes); if you want a longer walk, take the train to Lutry and walk across the vineyards to Cully or Rivaz (2h or 3h). There is a central wine tasting facility in Rivaz called the Lavaux Vinorama so you can taste wines from many different caves at one spot.

I would take the lake ferry one way, but it's not a substitute for walking or biking the vineyards.

Make sure that you spend a few hours in Vevey, which is just a lovely town with a beautiful old town next to the lake -- just wander its tangled streets and pop in and out of the shops and cafes.

If you take the Choolate Train, it will eat up a whole day. You can do the pieces on your own, and in fact you can do it while enroute from Montreux to the Jungfrau region. You have to send your luggage separately on the train, though, because there is no luggage storage at Gruyeres or at Broc Fabrique.

Anyway, to do it on your own, just take the train from Montreux to Gruyeres (it's on the Golden Pass route with a detour at Montbovon); explore the dairy making, then walk up the hill to the village and enjoy the village and the castle. Then take the train from Gruyeres to Broc-Fabrique to tour the Cailler chocolate factory. Then train back to Montbovon and continue to the Jungfrau region.

I don't care much for Lauterbrunnen, which sits on the valley floor and is overshadowed by the cliffs above -- those cliffs always depress me. I much prefer to stay in Wengen, which sits on a shelf up in the mountains, so your view is over to the other mountains and down the valley. Much more impressive! The village is quiet and serene; it's car-free, so your hotel will meet the train with an electric cart or van for your luggage.

Don't think that you can compare Zermatt (car-free mountain village with a population of around 5,000) with Prague (city and capital. If you want more mountains, choose Zermatt; if you want more cities, choose Prague.

Have fun as you plan!

s

PalenQ

for your Swiss plans if going by train you will find with that much travel some kind of Swiss Pass would be a great deal and under the Family Pass that comes free with adult passes the kids get free passes and never pay a cent for any train, boat, bus, etc - even on things that adults pay 50% off like cable cars to mountain tops - for lots of great info on Swiss trains, passes (which are valid not only on trains but lake boats, city trams and buses, postal buses but also give free entry to 400+ Swiss museums (including those you mention) - check out these IMo superb sites - www.swisstravelsystem.com;
http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html and www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com.

nikidi

swandav2000, thnx so much for all the useful, things look much clearer now!!

i was definitely planning on getting the swiss pass, but thnx PalenQ for pointing out the family pass. will look into that.

Re zermatt, I was just wondering if its best during pre/post Winter with more snow etc which gives us an excuse to return;-)

However would really appreciate on some help routing the itinerary and deciding whether we should fly into Zurich or Geneva. would like to choose the most time efficient route!

katiekb

It sounds as if you are more interested in visiting the southern end of Switzerland, so flying into Geneva would be more likely. The trains are fast between Zurich and Geneva though, so I would let the cost of the flight determine the airport.

swandav2000

Hi again,

What are your flights like from Hong Kong? And are you definitely going to Salzburg after your time in Switzerland?

Geneva is a smaller airport and doesn't handle many trans-ocean flights; flying in there may entail a longer time in the air and more changes. My initial reaction would be to fly into Zürich, but I don't know if the times into Geneva or Zürich from HK would be much different.

If you are going to Salzburg after Switzerland, it is an 9-hour trip with 2,3, or 4 changes from Geneva; from Zürich it is 5 to 7h with 0, 2, or 3 changes.

I guess I would try to land in Zürich and then maybe fly from Geneva to Salzburg. If you do that, then -

Luzern is just an hour from the Zürich airport by direct train; the train station is in the basement of the airport.

After Luzern, hit the Oberland, then Montreux (with Gruyeres and Broc enroute). If you want to go to Zermatt, it would fall after Montreux; otherwise, just go to Geneva airport and fly out to Salzburg.

If you fly into Geneva, then just do the reverse -- Zermatt, Montreux, Oberland, and Luzern. Then it would be easy to catch the train onward to Salzburg.

Zermatt is a wonderful summertime destination -- it's a great hiking hub, and the mountains will be green and flowers will be everywhere.

Have fun!

s

nikidi

thnx, that helps a lot..need to dig into the flights again and chk.(flying out from Srilanka, where we are from) but seems it will be best to start Geneva then Montreux (with Gruyeres and Broc enroute), BO and finish in Luzern, Zurich to go onwards to Salzburg.

this forum is a goldmine of information! thnx so much again.

swandav2000

Sounds like a good plan!!

The train station is adjacent to the Geneva airport, so it's quite easy to start that way, too. The trip to Montreux takes about 60 or 90 minutes.

If you haven't found it already, the Swiss rail site is at

www.sbb.ch

You can use it to play around with various itineraries.

s

PalenQ

Geneva then Montreux (with Gruyeres and Broc enroute)>

en route? I would do them in one day but as a day trip from Montreux - and you could take the fancy Chocolate Train - a special train going first to Gruyeres for a visit then onto the Broc Fctory train station for a Willy Wponkesque visit to the Nestle Chocolate Factory before going back to Lausanne/Mongtreux.

travelbuggie

Just a quick comment...in case you didn't know, the Montreux Jazz Festival is in full swing in July. It gets crowded in Montreux--that can be fun or very annoying. Thought I would mention it since you have two little ones...

nikidi

thnx again!!

didnt realize the Jazz festival is on!! I dont think we will be able to go for any of the shows with the kids in tow.But I suppose the town will have a festival atmosphere with market stalls etc ..or would it be really crowded??
Would it be better to base our selves in Vevey and may be do a day visit to Montreux?
the main reason for including Montruex was for experiencing the Geneva lake and visit Chiliion castle and may be LaVaux Express tour. and do the trip to Broc chocolate factory.


As per swandav2000 suggestion was thinking of doing the choc factory in Broc enroute from Montreux to BO.. is it better to do a day trip on the chocolate train instead??

No real interest in cheese and when I read the chocolate train reviews on trip advisor and here it seems a bit of a let down including the chocolate factory. But I am sure the kids will appreciate a visit to a chocolate factory

so am thinking may be take a direct train to Broc visit the factory and then take the train to Wengen.is this possible
would we miss the golden pass Train to OB this way???

ahh..this is not easy!

swandav2000

Hi again,

The Jazz Fest runs from 5-20 July. If you decide to fly into Geneva on 19 July, you could go to Zermatt for a day or two, then get to Montreux when it's over.

In summertime, the flowered lakeside promenade is elbow-to-elbow; during the Jazz Fest, the crowding is even worse (or better, according to your perspective, lol!).

Or, yes, just go to Vevey. Your hosts will give you a Riviera Card that makes the town busses free, and the busses link Vevey with Montreux and Chillon. It would be very easy to stay in Vevey and pop over to Montreux for a visit.

As I said above, if you take the Chocolate Train, it will eat up an entire day of your stay there -- you start before 09.00 and come back after 17.00. You also go over the very same landscape as on the Golden Pass, so you would be repeating the same trip when you move on to Wengen. It's a better use of time, imo, to do in on your own and while enroute.

No, you would NOT miss the Golden Pass -- the trip is the same up to Montbovon, where you would switch to go to Broc Fabrique.

I would encourage you to make the time to visit Gruyeres as well, even if you're not interested in cheese. You can skip the Maison de Gruyeres (I always do), but do walk up to the medieval village -- it's stunning.

Have fun!

s

Jean

Regarding Jungfraujoch. The elevation at the top is nearly 3500 meters. You should learn how to recognize the signs of altitude sickness and know what to do.

PalenQ

As I said above, if you take the Chocolate Train, it will eat up an entire day of your stay there -- you start before 09.00 and come back after 17.00. You also go over the very same landscape as on the Golden Pass, so you would be repeating the same trip when you move on to Wengen>

oh you just go over a very little bit on the Golden Pass route - 45 minutes - so it is not like duplicating the whole of the route as swandav's comments seem to indicate - plus the Chocolate Train is not simply transportation but an experience - Belle Epoque Pullman cars - the trappings of luxury - wine and cheese tastings en route, commentary - much like any of Switzerland's iconic special scenic trains.

nikidi

Thnx everyone for the advise!! I THINK i've sorted out the swiss part of the trip. its the rest i have trouble with now .

here is the itinerary .
experts, pls suggest for any tweaks and improvements, i have given details of daily itinerary in case other are interested,as I had a tough time figuring it out.

19JUL afternoon flight into Geneva and train to Montreux. Yet to see if basing in Vevey??

3N/2.5days Montreux/Vevey
- chillion castle and steamer to lousanne and back on the lake
- explore vevey old town, la voux express and short hike in lutry.

next day - train to Gruyers, explore the cheese factory, go to broc for chocolate factory.back to Montborn & continue to Wengen.

Question - How do we send out luggage to wengen direct??

4N/3days Wengen
- Klein Scheidegg hike and Jungfranjoch,
- Lauterbrunen walking to see the staubbach and trummelbach falls plus train to interlaken west to Thun for lake cruise? (is this feasible??)
- Grutschalp to gimmelwald hike

next day - morning hike to Lake Bachalpse (or is there a better hike to do? ) and then take a later train to Luzern.(2.5hrs ride)

2N/1day - Luzerne
golden round trip to Mt Pilatus, walk around in Luzern

(I cut one day to add a day to prague from here)

travel day : explore Luzerne town, late morning train to Zurich short break for lunch and walk in Zurich and last train to Salzburg.

AUSTRIA/CHZ!!

3N/2days in Salzburg. (SOM tour, marionette show, hohensalzburg fortress and explore Altmkt area)
early morning train to Vienna (3hrs ride)

3N/2.5 days in Vienna.
2 days of Vienna sights plus 1/2 day wachau valley

Question - would the Wachau valley Danube cruise and stop over in Melk/Durnstein be nice to include? wondering whether it should be done enroute from Salzburg?

Is there a walking tour that can easily followed in Vienna listed in any guide books. I only looked at LPmay be http://smartguide.co.at/will be an option.

morning train to PRAGUE. or car/bus to Cesky Krumlov??

3N/3 days Prague
Would like to visit Cesky krumlov from Prague or enroute from Vienna to Prague as a stop over.what the best way to do it?

IS THERE A SITE TO CHECK ON TRAIN DEPARTURE ARRIVAL TIMES FROM THE DIFFERENT LOCATIONS in Swiss/Austria

Thanks so much in advance May be its so intimidating to plan this trip as its the first trip to Europe? Asia/NZ was easy in comparison for some reason...