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-   -   Switzerland: Another triumph for the extreme right wing party (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/switzerland-another-triumph-for-the-extreme-right-wing-party-868074/)

DAX Nov 28th, 2010 08:50 PM

Switzerland: Another triumph for the extreme right wing party
 
The notoriously racist SVP party just had another triumph in the recent national referendum in Switzerland in passing a law to deport all foreigners who commit serious crimes (rape, murder, drug dealing etc) or illegally obtain social support.  I think this time they have the right idea for Switzerland (or any country for that matter), don't you?    
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/s...t/3488496.html

DAX Nov 28th, 2010 09:07 PM

Just found the news in English.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101128/...g_foreigners_3

MLF611 Nov 28th, 2010 09:12 PM

As foreigners living in Switzerland, we say: good. In fact, we were surprised that Switzerland couldn't do this already. We were also surprised at how close the vote was: http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/suisse/s...lises-28719362

In the run-up to the vote, it was interesting to learn that while only 20 percent of the Swiss population are foreign, 80 percent of people in Swiss prisons are foreign.

We obey Swiss laws and contribute to the Swiss economy. Only a few people have made us feel unwelcome simply because we are foreigners (but one of them, the creepy Swiss guy who lives in our building, is a PIA to the Swiss residents too).

One thing about the proposition that made us roll our eyes, however: in the list of crimes that could get you booted, money laundering was never mentioned. Hmmm....

It's also unfortunate that this commonsense law had to come from the party that is racist at heart.

Cowboy1968 Nov 28th, 2010 10:57 PM

As much as we often complain about politicians, these referendums make me wonder if the "people's vote" is really the better option.

The issue is not to deport murderers and rapists. Any country I know of can do that after a seperate legal hearing on the consequences of the deportation. This was also the case in Switzerland already.
The outrage is that thefts or other less or non-brutal crimes are mixed with serious crimes like rape or armed robbery. And that the deportation is supposed to be an "automatic act" without an extra trial or hearing. Even to countries where the alien is facing death or torture.
Another issue that is neglected is the fact that many immigrants throw away their passports so you have no clue if someone is from Somalia or Kenya or elsewhere. So you also would not know where to "send him back".

It's one of those "people decisions" that will get axed or watered down in the upcoming law-making process anyway when the Swiss find out that the unproportionality and lack of legal hearing violates the European Charta of Human Rights and agreements Switzerlands has with the EU.

kleeblatt Nov 29th, 2010 12:31 AM

This is a case of political correctness vs the will of the people. Many neighboring countries' citizens would have voted the same.

Our prisons are starting to fill up. Our social service funds are drying up. Many classrooms are filled with 50% foreign children. It's enough to put the local voter on edge.

However, and this is very important, most foreigners are upstanding. It's the few bad apples that ruin it for all.

Much like the US with their mosque issue in New York, the citizens here in Europe are nervous as well. We have a good standard of living and we don't want to lose it. Living without fear is something we don't want to give up.

We have direct democracy in Switzerland. Not many countries have this privilege. It is the true voice of the people.

By the way, imho, the real issue is why are so many people leaving their native country? If there was a lesser exodus of people from their homelands, there would not be this "foreigner" issue we now have.

kleeblatt Nov 29th, 2010 12:37 AM

By the way, many of those foreigners who have already been expelled from the country, find their way back anyway. It's very frustrating for all. Our border controls are quite lax now and entering the country via forest paths, etc., is not so difficult.

hetismij Nov 29th, 2010 12:50 AM

They will also expel people born in Switzerland, who have lived their entire life in Switzerland and know no other country than Switzerland. Because they aren't Swiss citizens.
Swiss citizenship is very difficult to obtain, and being born in Switzerland is not enough to qualify, if your parents are not Swiss, or if your father is Swiss, but your mother is not, and they are not married.

I can't see the EU being too happy at this rule, and I'm not sure how Schengen rules apply in this case.

Interestingly in another referendum the Swiss voted against increasing taxes on high earners.

Sounds like the Tea party would be right at home there.

Dukey1 Nov 29th, 2010 01:21 AM

The <B>notoriously racist</B> SVP party just had another triumph

No, I don't think it is "the right thing" for ANY country, sorry

hetismij Nov 29th, 2010 01:38 AM

I agree Dukey.

pauljagman Nov 29th, 2010 02:55 AM

I'm not normally political and absolutely would not usually comment on this type of statement:

'Interestingly in another referendum the Swiss voted against increasing taxes on high earners.

Sounds like the Tea party would be right at home there.'

But if you know anything about the 'Tea Party' they are against raising taxes ....period.

ira Nov 29th, 2010 03:28 AM

Hi all,

>Some 52.9 percent of voters backed the proposal put forward by the nationalist Swiss People's Party.

That tally is about what one would expect in a democracy.

>A government-backed counterproposal failed. It would have required case-by-case review by a judge before an individual was deported.

One would think that that was already the procedure.

>"The majority of voters have sent a clear signal that they consider foreign criminality to be a serious problem," Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga said.....

That's because they are nervous and scared.

Swiss crime stats are at http://www.nationmaster.com/country/...land/cri-crime

They compare very favorably to other countries, eg, rape victims = 0.6%, half that of Austria.

>....people who had lived all their life in Switzerland, married Swiss citizens and had children, but never obtained Swiss passports, would be unusually hard hit by expulsion.

Ay, there's the rub. Considering how difficult it is to obtain citizenship (How many generations does one have to live in CH in order to no longer be a foreigner?), and that 20% of the residents are not citizens, it is oppressive to add this extra punishment solely because of the accident of birth.

From http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101129/...cs_expulsion_5
"In the same referendum, 58.5 percent of voters rejected a proposal that would have imposed a minimum cantonal (state) tax on the very rich".

No comment is necessary.

((I))

DAX Nov 29th, 2010 05:48 AM

<<By the way, the real issue is why are so many people leaving their native country? If there was a lesser exodus of people from their homelands, there would not be this "foreigner" issue we now have>>

One reason is the favorable 25% tax rate for the rich (for certain cantons), money laundering can be a bonus for some.....
Job opportunity is another obvious reason as the Swiss hospitality industry still needs foreigners to do the lowest menial jobs.

DAX Nov 29th, 2010 06:23 AM

<< ....people who had lived all their life in Switzerland, married Swiss citizens and had children, but never obtained Swiss passports, would be unusually hard hit by expulsion.
Ay, there' the rub..... it is oppressive to add this extra punishment solely because of the accident of birth.>>

As far as I know, a foreigner who marries a Swiss citizen automatically gets the swiss citizenship unless the foreigner refuses it, so it's their own option to refuse the citizenship and to commit crime.

Dukey1 Nov 29th, 2010 06:26 AM

IMO "the real issue" is simply how the folks in Switzerland have decided to deal with their "problem." It has little to do with people leaving their own homelands, how long it takes to become a Swiss citizen, or anything other than how the majority has decided to deal with these things which apparently tells us all we need to know about the modd of the country.

I'm really sorry if this doesn't quite fit in with the bucolic cowbells, the chocolate, and the stunning views, but this is obviously they way things are going to BE.


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