Switzerland and Italy in October
 

Hello,

My fiancee and I would like to spend around 23 nights in Italy and Switzerland for our honeymoon in October next year. Our itinerary is roughly as follows:

Montreux - 3 nights (early flight in)
Zermatt - 4 nights
St Moritz - 4 nights
Milan - 3 nights
Venice - 3 nights
Florence - 3 nights
Rome - 3 nights (late flight out)

Do you think we have divided the time up ok? We are wanting to take the chocolate train in Montreux, stay at the 3100 Kulmhotel Gornergrat Zermatt-Matterhorn for 1 or 2 nights when in Zermatt and take the Glacier Express to St Moritz. Beyond that we are open to recommendations.

Does anyone have any must-do experiences, amazing meals or luxury accommodation recommendations (aroun 350 euro/400 swiss franc, or under)?

Many thanks in advance!

Read more: http://www.frommers.com/community/fo...#ixzz1zcILd5QP

Hi keedm002,

The Chocolate Train only runs on Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday in October, so you may find it more convenient to do it on your own. It's quite easy -- just take the train from Montreux to Gruyeres, see the cheese-making demo, see the village, and tour the castle. Then take the train from Gruyeres to Broc-Fabrique and tour the facotry. Then take the train from Broc-Fabrique back to Montreux.

One advantage to doing it on your own is that you'll be able to stop in Gstaad for an hour or two on your way.

Here are links to my "reviews" (w/photos) of my favorite things to do from Montreux:

Montreux old town
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html

Lavaux
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html

Walks through the Lavaux vineyards
http://www.montreuxriviera.com/en/Cu...rekking_Lavaux


Promenade Fleuri
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html

Morges
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...rges_Vaud.html

Gruyeres
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR..._Fribourg.html

Saanen
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...wiss_Alps.html

Gstaad
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...wiss_Alps.html

Hope one or two of them will appeal to you.

Have fun as you plan!

s

I don't know what you have planned for Milan. But the train from St. Moritz will stop at Varenna on Lake Como, and I'd rather stay there. You will still go through Milan on your way from Varenna to Venice, so you could store your luggage at the train station in Milan and spend a few hours seeing the sights before continuing your journey.

BTW, I like Milan. But I love Lake Como.

Thanks Jean, we will definitely look into it. We are wanting to go to a football game when in Milan (if there is one on), do you think it would be worthwhile spending one/two nights in Varenna and then 1/2 in Milan?

Thanks Swandev for all your suggestions!

I am partial to Milan....although others don't appreciate the amazing design and food, etc in this very cool city. Love everything on your agenda, but might cut short some places to add a day to Rome. There is enough in Rome to fill 2 weeks.

I would probably cut out of Zermatt or St. Moritz to do so, unless you love walking in the mountains. Neither of these has much to see/do but for the gorgeous views and nature (which are really spectacular but not everyone gets excited about scenery).

Congrats on your wedding and enjoy!

We did N Italy (dolomites, lake garda, lake como and venice) and bernese oberland in switzerland last year. My fav part by far were the dolomites...simply stunning. We stayed at Uhrerhof-deuf. We loved this inn. You can look it up on tripadvisor.

You will get bored in St. Moritz after a day. Take that time and add to Rome and Venice. But, fabulous trip---I have done all of that including the 2 big train trips. Have fun !

Gruezi, thanks for your suggestions - it definitely sounds like we need to add more time onto Rome. I may even extend the trip slightly to do so, however I am not sure how much annual leave I will have and whether that will be possible!
As per your suggestion, maybe cutting down St Moritz and Zermatt to 3 nights each would work. I like the sound of the relaxing time and gorgeous views in these places! But may be worthwhile cutting the time down.

Will St Moritz be a ghost town in October? Many of the hotels seem to be shut down, should we cut our time there to 2/3 days?

Anyone else have opinions as to whether we should stay in Lake Como/Milan or both?

Mnag, sounds like an incredible holiday. Dolomites would be amazing but the fiance wants to visit Milan so they are out of the way. What were your thoughts on Lake Como and Venice?

Venice is one place I am not sure where is best to stay, in regards to transport, touristy places etc. This may be a very silly and naive question but do you need to take gondolas/boats everywhere? Are they expensive? Do hotels offer free services?

Thanks Bob - I only saw your post now. Will definitely cut down time in St Moritz. Thanks for your suggestion, and glad to hear our trip has a tick of approval!

October is a quiet time in St. Moritz and also Zermatt. Many hotels actually close down from then until Christmas week. OTOH, if the weather holds, the beginning of October can be very lovely weather and exceptional hiking. But if it turns cold early you may find it desolate.

My favorite time for hiking in Switzerland is September into very early October. The weather is usually drier and quite nice.

Honestly, St. Moritz is all about the hype and money. Off ski season I would be kind of bored I think. For hiking I prefer the Murren area. More trails, more low-key, and gorgeous. I have spent Christmas in St. Moritze and it is lovely and trendy with beautiful people but October may not be nearly as exciting. I do hear the summer is quite pretty but I have not been then.

Regarding Venice,

There are water taxis to take and not nearly the price of gondolas. Only the fancier hotels offer gondola service. We stayed in a very high-end hotel (Bauer Il Palazzo) there but in the end it was a sort of an odd place and wildly expensive at the time. Next time I would go smaller. We did not have the best dining experiences - pricy, bad service, mediocre food. But, we did love Venice nonetheless. More research next time for us!

Venice is actually a lovely place to walk...water taxi is not always necessary.

Thanks for clearing these things up for me Gruezi!

We would like to take the Glacier Express to St Moritz from Zermatt and then train to Milan, hence why we were staying in St Moritz. I think 2 nights will definitely be sufficient.

Thanks for the advice on Venice - I feel a bit dumb but I have always been confused how travel around it works haha!! Will definitely make sure we do plenty of research on Venice as I have previously heard a lot of the food in Venice is as you say, overpriced and underwhelming.

Thanks so much!

We only spent a day in Venice. It was hot and the water taxis were crowded!! Lake Como was certainly pretty (we stayed at a town called Argegno). We prefered lake Garda over Como which felt more touristy.

I've been to the St. Moritz area about a dozen times for walking/hiking, not to mention additional times for skiing. It's my favourite area in Switzerland, there are considerably more hiking trails there, all kinds of levels, than in the Jungfrau region. Lots of cable cars, gondolas, trains and buses that make it very convenient and less strenuous. Since most hotels offer free public transportation and cable car rides if you stay two nights or longer it is also less expensive IME than the Bernese Oberland/Jungfrau region (in summer).

If you stay only two nights in St. Moritz you'll be disappointed. The town itself is rather ugly, with large apartment blocks/hotels, often in the style of the 1960s/70s. I recommend to stay in one of the smaller towns/villages, like Pontresina or Sils e.g. which have charm. To get a feel for the beauty of the region you need to do some exploring: the lakes of Sils and Silvaplana, the Fex valley (horse-drawn carriages) near Sils-Maria, the Bregaglia valley with Soglio (by bus), a sunset dinner at Muottas Muragl, cable car ride up to Diavolezza etc.

For luxury accommodation in the area try Grand Hotel Kronenhof in Pontresina and Hotel Waldhaus in Sils-Maria. Maybe they have a special offer/package (especially for honeymooners) that would meet your budget.

We love Venice. Having stayed in various areas, now always opt for Palazzo Guardi near Accademia. Lovely area and great hotel. We also love Zermatt.

I agree that 4 nights in St. Moritz is too many. We took the Glacier Express and stayed just one night as it is very small.
I live in Vicenza which is half way between Venice and Verona. I personally think one or two overnights in Venice is enough. It's expensive and touristy, but must be seen. I would stay outside Venice and take the local train to some other towns such as Verona or Vicenza for some authenticity. We have stayed overnight in Florence (Hotel Casci) and then taken a short bus ride (one hour) to Siena and stayed one night at the Hotel Duomo which was terrific for a side trip. We have done Milan as a day trip, but it didn't hold our interest as much as Florence. Rome is at least 3 days. Enjoy!

Montreux - 3 nights (early flight in)
Zermatt - 2 nights
St Moritz - 2 nights
Milan - 2 nights
Venice - 2 nights
Verona/vineyard visits - 2 nights
Vicenza - 2 nights (Hotel Due Mori)
Florence - 2 nights
Siena - 2 night (Hotel Duomo)
Rome - 4 nights (late flight out)

I will concur with Ingo on Sils-Maria and the Fex Valley. Definitely more charm than St. Moritz and access to some beautiful hiking and good dining.

We have stayed in Pontresina a few times, but it was winter so I'm not sure how it "feels" in summer. We were at the Hotel Walther which is very nice (and Swiss in feel and operation). They have a less expensive but very nice smaller hotel right on their grounds called the Hotel Steinbock. I did once take a good look at a number of properties there and for the price the Walther seemed a good spot. The Grand Hotel Kronenhof is grand - our friends had their wedding there - and nicely situated. But you do not need to spend so much to have a nice room in a pretty setting.

The Swiss do prefer the Engadin (the region around St. Moritz) and don't get too excited over the Berner Oberland. I, however, do love Wengen and Murren (Berner Oberland) and just preferred heading there when I had a few days to head to the hills. But you will find all the areas beautiful I'm sure and if you like hiking, Switzerland is the place to be.

I don't know how big your actual wedding is, but we remember being very tired the first few days after. It is nice you'll be in the mountains those first days where you can relax. Then by the time you get to Rome you will be ready for how busy it is. Also, by October things will quiet down a bit in Florence and Venice. I don't think you'll find it too crowded.

Regarding the trains - I love sitting on a train looking at scenery but my family often just slept! I have taken a number of those train trips alone as a result. But you have to know yourself and how many hours of scenery you enjoy. I also would bring a bottle of wine and picnic which is commonly done in Switzerland. You can pick all that up at the Migros or Coop before you board the train. I usually got a chunk of cheese, a baguette and some chocolate plus a bottle of a dry white. That combined with the views out the window made for a perfect day IMO!

keed,

What great honeymoon destiations!

I have been to Rome several times and agree with others that you should try to add more time there. I also agree that if you are taking your trip immediately after your wedding, you will probably be exhausted for at least the first several days--so I would go to the most relaxing destination first. Also, I personally find it exhausting and ultimately not that enjoyable to spend such short amounts of time in so many places--much of your time on your travel days will be spent packing up your stuff, checking out, getting to the train station, waiting for your train, spending time on the train, getting from the train to your hotel, then checking into your hotel. I would try to cut it down to 4 places, max.

I have not been to Venice yet but my husband and I are planning a trip there in September. So far I have found this forum to be immensely helpful in planning that trip. I suggest that you do a search on this forum just on "Venice." There are so many threads, with a wealth of information on everything from how to get around (yes, the only way to get around Venice is by walking or by boat--but it is relatively small so you should be able to walk most places), to where to stay, to where to dine (despite what others have said, apparently there are some wonderful places!). For some reason most of the responses so far to your query have not been overly enthusiastic about Venice, so I urge you to read the large numbers of postings by other Fodorites who absolutely love Venice and believe one should stay there longer than just a few nights, if possible. That way you can be exposed to a diversity of opinions before finalizing your itinerary.

If you don't find the information you want in reviewing the existing Venice threads, then I suggest you start a separate thread specifically on Venice.

For what it's worth, we started out thinking that we would only spend 2 or 3 nights in Venice before moving on to our other destination, but reading the Venice threads changed our mind, and we're staying a week now!

Congratulations and have a great time!

keed,

p.s. Some of the destinations on your itinerary could be done as day trips, that way you don't have to spend as much time packing up and moving to a different hotel. For example, many on this forum suggest using Venice as a base, and if you get tired of Venice, you can easily do day trips from there to Verona or Vicenza.

Wow! Thanks everyone for your feedback...


Mnag - Hopefully in October it won't be as busy for us in Venice!

Ingo - I think you have rekindled the reason I wanted to go to St Moritz and Switzerland, at that - thankyou. Everything you have said sounds incredibly romantic and relaxing - perfect for the start of our honeymoon. I love horse drawn carriages so will definitely look into that! The Grand Hotel Kronenhof also seems to have a good deal with half board and all travel in the area for just over 400chf a night for a deluxe room, which seems like a good deal. Alternatively, you have mentioned a meal at Muottas Muragl - what are your thoughts on staying there?

Susannah - Have checked out the hotel and definitely looks like a good b&b well within our budget, may be a good option as we could afford the best of rooms there, which still come in under 200 euro a night.

Bernadette - I am interested in your proposed itinerary, as we were thinking of staying in Verona and Siena already. However, do you think this will be too much travel and changing hotels for a honeymoon?

Gruezi - Hotel Walther also looks incredible. Interestingly, the Grand Hotel Kronenhof appears to be cheaper for the time we are there? I would definitely compare both when the time comes to book however as I like the look of both. I thought exactly as you regarding the wedding, so hopefully things go as planned and we are gradually thrust into the craziness of the famous Italian sights and art! I also adore your suggestion of a picnic on the train. Would we need to bring plates and wine (plastic) glasses for this?

RMMR2 - Thanks for the advice. I think Venice is a must, especially on a honeymoon! I will most definitely look more into Venice, at present I have been trying to search posts for around the same time of year (to get a grasp on climate, what is good at that time of year, etc) but will definitely do more specific research, particularly for Venice.

That is also a great suggestion about day trips - I don't know if I could possibly cut the trip to 4 locations though?? All the places we are visiting are quite spread out in my opinion and I don't know which I would choose to cut out, they all sound amazing! Milan was a late addition, but this is a request by the fiancee as he would like to visit it, plus we are hoping to catch a football/soccer game there. If we can't, we may just keep it as a day trip.

Thanks so much everyone!

The Grand Hotel Kronenhof is a perfect, charming hotel for a honeymoon. Muottas Muragl is not as romantic - they renovated the hotel recently and unfortunately drove all the charm out. Although they used lots of Swiss pine wood the ambience is rather stylish and cool, unfortunately this seems to be the trend in the Swiss Alps (see Hotel Albris in Pontresina or others all over the Swiss Alps). Also, it is in very isolated position, inconvenient for excursions, the elevation is not for everyone (not for me, cannot sleep well above 2000 m).

Btw, there are also horse-drawn carriage rides from Pontresina into the Roseg valley (from the train station) to Hotel Roseggletscher which enjoys a fantastic location with views of the glaciers and has a yummy dessert buffet (not sure about your travel dates, though, and the carriage ride itself is mostly in the woods, so not as scenic as in Fex Valley).

keed,

I know it's tough to narrow things down! The 4 places max is just my opinion, of course--maybe 5 would be fine for you. Any hotel changes you can eliminate will make things easier. I'm not as familiar with Switzerland, so I don't know if it's possible to pick one place as your "base" there and do day trips to your other Swiss destinations?

If you think it is at all possible that you will be traveling to the European continent again (I don't know where you live, so of course that makes a difference), maybe you could consider saving some of your itinerary for another trip?

I've never been to Milan, though I don't blame you for wanting to go there as it sounds like that's the one place your fiancee is insisting on.

I prefer Rome to Florence (though I'm sure many would disagree with me). I've been to Florence once, for a few days, and felt that was enough--I adored seeing the David and other works of art that Florence is famous for--and it is certainly worth visiting for that reason, if nothing else. But as a city, it feels more like a place that exists mainly for tourists. Rome, although it has plenty of tourists, feels more like a real place where real people live, and seems more chaotic and unpredictable (in a good way), charming, exciting, and breathtaking than Florence does.

BTW, I love the small hotel in Rome where I've stayed twice, but it might not be as upscale as you're looking for. It is Albergo del Senato--google it and you'll get their website. The rooms are small but well designed and clean and in my opinion it is in the perfect location--in the same piazza as the Pantheon. It has a tiny, quiet rooftop deck with a bar, and when you sit there with your cocktail at sunset it's very special--you're at the same level as the roof of the Pantheon, and you feel as though you can reach out and touch it. Also the staff there are incredibly warm, friendly and helpful. I think they do have some suites though, so those might be worth looking into. If you tell them you're on your honeymoon and you ask for a suite in the front of the building, overlooking the Piazza della Rotunda, you can't go wrong!

Cool fall days are great for a fondue meal. Find a traditional Swiss restaurant to order fondue. It's a nice way to share a meal, especially with your new spouse! Raclette is another great Swiss meal that you should try while in Switzerland.

My Swiss friends took us to a traditional Swiss restaurant in Montreux called Caveau des Vignerons. We ordered fondue and it was very good.

En guete!

Ingo - Thanks for the clarification; I have been looking into the Grand Hotel Kronenhof and am really excited about staying there. It looks very romantic and seems to portray Switzerland just as I had hoped it would be. Will definitely make sure we take one of the horse drawn carriage options available, they Fex Valley option does sound very romantic but we will see how much convenience comes into play at the time!

RMMR2 - Unfortunately, we live in Australia and there are still many places in the Northern Hemisphere we are yet to visit so another trip will not be probably for many years. I guess we will just need to pace ourselves - I guess we are looking at having a relatively leisurely honeymoon (in the way of not packing too much into every day), until we visit Rome where we will use up the last of our energy! I looked at the Albergo del Senato and it does seem like it is in a perfect location - however, it seems very expensive in October (even though we are not going until next year I am looking at this year for comparison) at 300 euro a night for a double room? I will look again closer to our travel date to see if this is any lower next year.

Lynne - Sounds delicious! And if you were taken there by Swiss friends - must be good. I will be sure to visit.

Hi,

Your schedule is interesting, but where are the risks, and are you ready to take them...

To unwind in Montreux is OK, early October, 400 m asl, walks along the lake, maybe cross the lake to see Evian, have your Chocolate Train Daytrip. You have a fair chance for good autumn weather, maybe an occasional shower.
Then, I would cut pretty short on Zermatt and St-Moritz. These stations are very attractive at 2 moments of the year. First in winter, with the entire XMas atmosphere and hype, snow activities and so on, second in the summer for hiking. Outside these periods, both villages are near dead, boredom is guaranteed, and you have seen the place in half a day...
Autumn weather in Zermatt (1620m asl) and St.Moritz (1820m asl) in Mid-October can be capricious. I would plan the St-Moritz to Zermatt Glacier Train, but without spending more than the necessary nights in St.M. (before the early morning departure) and Z.(the late afternoon of arrival) to keep the pace. You could at least win 4 nights between ST.M and Z., 6 at the best.

Milan is OK to visit. I could understand your wife wants to do some shopping there... As for the football game, games are mainly played on Saturdays and/or Sundays. If there are midweek games, that would be on Tuesdays ore Wednesdays. You could also do a Saturday morning market somewhere in town, always fun, at least to me... I would prefer Milan to Varenna, just to get into the atmosphere of the city.

In October, Bernadette's proposal for northern Italy might interest me. I would be south of the Alps, with a fairer chance of good autumn weather. It is true that Vicenza, Verona and also Padova are nice little towns. Personally, I would choose Venice as a base for some 5 days and daytrip Vicenza or Padova by train. It is always nice to be in Venice in the evening when the day tourists have gone and wander through the alleys.

Then Florence and Rome, yes, as long as possible, as long as your schedule permits. At least 4 nights in Rome, 5 if possible.

I would second (or third) the hearty recommendations for Venice. It is a really romantic city and truly unique.

It is also quite easy to navigate. You can walk almost anywhere you would want. If you get tired, you can catch a vaporetto (water bus) and shorten your walk. A vaporetto pass for 1 or more days is very helpful.

I do think a water taxi is worth it from the airport to your hotel (and vice versa), especially if you have appreciable luggage -- also since you are on your honeymoon. However, you would need to make sure your hotel has a private dock.

I went to Venice early last fall for the third time, this time with my boyfriend. We had several romantic dinners and a gondola ride at dusk. I can provide more recommendations if you like.

Disagree with the previous post on Zermatt and St. Moritz - fall (early-mid October) is VERY popular for hiking in the mountains. The foliage especially in the Engadine is spectacular - although more yellow/gold (larch trees) than red. But the contrast to the blue lakes, the snow capped mountains and the (hopefully) blue sky is amazing. Usually the weather is quite stable there in October, but of course you never know and it might happen it's snowing all the time. One more reason for a great, romantic hotel.

keed,

I sympathize very much with you--I live on the east coast of the U.S. (about an 8-9 hour plane ride) and I always wonder if my next trip to Italy will be far in the future--so I can only imagine what it must be like travelling from Australia.

I believe we paid around 280 euro for a double at Albergo del Senato in late May 2010, so 300 euro in October 2013 sounds like it's in line with that. At least it's within your stated budget of 350 euro per night(though admittedly not a luxury suite). How much was the suite? Also they usually discount the rate somewhat if you stay longer--say 3 or more nights. But maybe it's too soon for them to have those discounts posted.

Another option is to rent an apartment in Rome. Italy vacation apartments are usually a lot less expensive than hotels and often only require a 3-night minimum. There are some really nice ones--and since you're not travelling until next year, you'll have a lot to choose from. I would start on Flipkey, to see ratings of apartments by previous travellers (it's operated by Tripadvisor, so it's a similar format), and then, if Flipkey lists a website for the property manager or owner of an apartment you like, use that website to inquire about the apartment.

I also have a restaurant recommendation--La Rosetta, in Rome. It is mainly seafood and fish (so perhaps not a great choice if you do not care for those), but we thought it was wonderful--especially the seafood risotto and the wine. I don't recall the address but it was not far from the Pantheon. I believe it has a website so you can google it.

Have a wonderful time!

Albergo del Senato is a great location, worth the money to us last year!