Switzerland
 

Hi, I am ending a two week cruise in Basel next summer with my son (an adult). I want to take the train into Switzerland for about a week or so. My plan is to train to Zurich an hour or so from Basel, spend the night in Zurich, then train down to Zermatt for two nights, then train to Wengen for two nights then back to Zurich for two nights and fly back to US from Zurich. I've been to Murren and loved it, but want to try a different village nearby. I'd like suggestions about this itinerary. I've been to Zermatt before also, son has not been to Switzerland. Am wondering if Grindelwald might be better than Wengen. (cars in Grindelwald I think). Have mixed feelings about Zermatt, but thought the train in different directions might be good? Been to Luzern before too. I really like Zurich. suggestions please? Sue in GA
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Why go to Zurich for just an overnight stay on your way to Wengen?

Stay in Basel for a day a visit its museums and the old town.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca...7622927438333/ and subsequent pictures.

I vote Wengen over Grindelwald, because it is car-free, quieter, more centrally located, panoramic views, less touristy.

If you consolidate your Zurich time into one stay at the end, you'll have more time for seeing/doing/experiencing and you will spend less time in transit. So I'd suggest that you either spend your day in Basel, or get on the train and go straight to Wengen for several nights . You can still have two nights in Zurich on your way back.

Michael, I planned a total of 3 nights in Zurich and on the way to Zermatt, then Wengen. Sue

Brubenow, that is what I thought about Wengen over Grindelwald, any suggestions of nice places to stay in Wengen? Sue

Kathie, I think I wanted to do Zermatt first then WEngen. I thought we might need a break in Zurich after leaving the river cruise and train? Hard to figure this all out. You may be right, however I also planned to leave a big suitcase at the hotel in Zurich to travel with a smaller overhead bin type case on train to Zermatt/WEngen. Sue

Frankly, unless you are interested in something other than viewing the Matterhorn peak and taking looks at the Monte Rosa Massif I would NOT spend several nights in Zermatt as opposed to almost anywhere in the Berner Oberland.

You want "touristy" then car-free Zermatt will fill that bill, believe me.

Grindelwald may be better for your young adult son as there are many folks his age there for the apres-hiking night scene- Wengen is more sedate and family-oriented it seems (folks here love it and many prefer it over Grindelwald - I prefer Grindelwald for many reasons - the views are stupendous from either and most of Grindelwald is off-limits to vehicles which must park at the entrance to town mainly. Anyway not full of traffic.

anyway for all the train travel to different places a Swiss Pass of some type may be a great deal - covers trains to Wengen and Grindelwald (and Murren) in full as well as lake boats (nice trips on either of the two lakes bookending Interlaken), buses and gives 50% off on most gondolas or trains to mountain tops.

for lots of great info on Swiss trains and passes check www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Dukey/Palen.....I have had thoughts about skipping Zermatt, would Wengen/Grindelwald make sense? I've been to Murren and loved it. Maybe an overnight or two in both Wengen and then in Grindelwald. I think they are accessible between the two places? Son is middle age, I am older but in good health relatively. I sort of thought the train between Zurich to Zermatt, and then over to Wengen, might be worth the ride, but is that a scenic train trip, or would you just go right over to WEngen/Grindelwald from Zurich? then we will fly back to US from Zurich. Thanks for the input. Sue

Hi Sue81,

I agree that it makes no sense to stay in Zurich for one night before travelling to Zermatt -- you'll waste (imo) a lot of hours checking into a hotel and unpacking, then packing up again in the morning and checking out. I really think that a river cruise is pretty relaxing, and you won't need the stop in Zurich (which won't be very relaxing anyway imo). So, I would just head directly from Basel to Zermatt and add that night to one of your mountain destinations.

I really don't think it's worthwhile to split up your time in the Jungfrau area between Grindelwald and Wengen -- just stay in Wengen. Yes, it's easy to get between the two places very easily, and it would be another waste (imo) of time to pack up & deal with hotel logistics, etc.

Exactly when in the summer are you going? In July & August, I've found Grindelwald to be unpleasant; when I visited with my mom, the town was full of big tour busses (that's as high as they can get to), and the sidewalks were crowded with big groups of the off-loaded, day-tripping passengers. I really enjoy experiencing a town at leisure and soaking up the atmosphere as I stroll the streets or enjoy a cup of coffee -- but that wasn't a pleasant experience in Grindelwald in August.

My mom and I spent a day in Wengen, and we were very sorry we hadn't stayed there -- it was peaceful and quiet. It was a huge contrast with Grindelwald (btw, I have skied from Grindelwald 2x and from Wengen 2x, and Wengen is my favorite by far).

Have fun as you plan!

s

Hi Swanday, We will get to Switzerland in mid July, and Wengen sounds much nicer, so will nail that down. As far as Zurich, I want to spend one night there going down to leave our larger suitcases with them, and the hotel said they will hold them for us, very nice hotel on Lake Zurich, so I think I want to do that. Then maybe down to Zermatt for 2 nights, unless I skip Zermatt, then over to Wengen, 2 nights and back to Zurich again 2 nights. Any suggestions for a nice hotel in Wengen or Zermatt. i do use a cane, so maybe not too far to walk to it, (I know I should probably avoid this area, but think I can handle it), and want son to see it).Someone mentioned an electric car in Wengen, how about Zermatt? been a long time since I've been to Zermatt. Sue thanks everyone for the responses.
Also how recently were you in Wengen?

Hi again,

In Wengen, I've stayed at the 3-star Hotel Alpenrose. It's a family-owned place where the husband/father is the chef, and the wife/mother runs the front desk. When I was there last, the children were in hotel school to carry on the family tradition. They have a photo album documenting the hotel over the decades.

The hotel will meet your train with an electric van, and in fact, the van driver will try to drive you back & forth from the train station daily (I had to keep telling him, "no"). If you need assistance walking, you should have to problems.

Like Dukey1 above, I've found Zermatt to be overly touristed; I also didn't like the way the town looks because they just keep building chalets even though there's no room there to build. I've only been there twice, and both times I felt it was overcrowded (both people and buildings).

Well, I moved to Garmisch-Partenkirchen, German, in 2008, so now I have skiing just 30 minutes from my front door. I think the last time I was in Wengen was in 2004 or maybe 2006.

Have fun!

s

>>> As far as Zurich, I want to spend one night there going down to leave our larger suitcases with them

The luggage may be able to travel on their own under certain conditions to eliminate the first Zurich stay just to drop luggage.

http://www.swisstravelsystem.com/en/...itzerland.html

However, there are restrictions. Read the requirements carefully.

Hi Swanday and Greg, I very much like Garmisch-Partenkirchen, lovely place. thanks for the response.Wonderful beer hall there.

also Greg, thanks for the rail info, but I think I have it figured out to leave at a very nice hotel in zurich at no cost to drop big luggage, and to not have to deal with a big suitcase at all, and then start the trip from Zurich. May seem longer, but seems to work for me, and then back to Zurich for two nights. Only question now is do I want to go to Zermatt, as I recall there is a train that goes up part way too, is it the Matterhorn or up a mountain from Zermatt? That seemed to be a very nice little trip. Also how about the lake cruise on Lake Zurich, seems like that was a nice thing to do too. It's been a long time since I was there. Thanks all. Sue

.I have had thoughts about skipping Zermatt, would Wengen/Grindelwald make sense? I've been to Murren and loved it. Maybe an overnight or two in both Wengen and then in Grindelwald. I think they are accessible between the two places? Son is middle age, I am older but in good health relatively.>

I think Grindelwald/Wengen may better for longer and skip Zermatt - a much longer train ride from Zurich and IMO the Jungfrau Region as the area around Interlaken is called has a much more varied array of offerings - for a boat ride take one either on Lake Thun or Lake Brienz - the two lakes bookending Interlaken - easy to do from either base which both have excellent train service from Interlaken and to each other.

Since your son is middle aged he may prefer the relative quietness of Wengen over the much more active Grindelwald.

Only question now is do I want to go to Zermatt, as I recall there is a train that goes up part way too, is it the Matterhorn or up a mountain from Zermatt?>

Well to to get to Zermatt you take a train there from Brig/Vispand to get up to the Matterhorn you take a special mountain train.

Note that the Matterhorn can always be shrouded in clouds, fog, mist, etc and you may not see it for days at a time sometimes.

You don't go to Zermatt for a cute mountain town - as dukey and swandav say it is kind of blah but the views from the town itself are superb - if the skies are clear - I would not use that as a criteria to judge whether to go there or not.

Wengen, Grindelwald and as you know Murren are however picture-postcard cute towns - even much maligned Grindelwald which I think gets too maligned on this forum at times. It is very different from Wengen but IME both are neat - I have only traversed Wengen and walked around it a few times so never stayed there at night - it may well have a pulse that rivals Grindelwald but in general Grindelwald has more of many things, including tourists and buses and cars in town.

Wengen can only be reached by train or gondola - in fact Wengen to Grindelwald can be done at least three ways - by public transit - by train via Zweilutchen or via Kleine Scheidegg or via gondola Wengen to The Mannlichen (raved view point) and then cable down to Grindelwald.

Hi again,

Yes, a cruise on the lake at Zürich is one of the things I enjoyed most there. Take the ferry to Rapperswil, down the lake, and get off and explore the town -- it has a castle, a deer park, and a rose garden. Definitely worth a few hours. You can return to Zürich by train or by ferry.

Have fun!

s

Zurich and its lake are nice but in limited time you will find places much nicer for the average traveler. Lucerne is one place I would go instead of Zurich for two days and boat rides on Lake Lucerne are IMO even much nicer than Lake Zurich.

Palen, Actually I've been to Luzern and like it also, soo much to see and not enough time to do it all. Thanks all. sue

OK if I were to cut out Zermatt, and start in Basel after a cruise, spend one night in Zurich,to leave our large suitcases, and cruise Lake Zurich, and plan on at least two nights in Wengen, and plan a couple nights back in Zurich to fly back out in July , what place would you suggest other than Zermatt, (which sounds very touristy to me). I've been to Luzern before and Zermatt, and Engleburg and Geneva, and Murren. Would like my son to see more of Switzerland, as he has never been there, but we have only a week. I am still trying to figure this out. We would have a night or two for somewhere else. How is the scenery on the train from Zurich to Zermatt? and Zermatt to Wengen? Sue

How about Lake Geneva and say dreamy smaller towns than Geneva like Montreux or Vevey - lots to see and do on short day trips from those bases - again lake boats - can easily scoot over to France at Evian-les-Bains - Chateau Chillon of Lord Byron fame - or Gruyeres- a fine fine walled town.

Then take the Golden Pass official scenic train to Interlaken_ost for trains from there to Wengen or wherever.

Agree with the comments about Zermatt being overcrowded.

We visited once in September and just couldn't deal with the crowds.

Since then we've gone back a few times pre-ski season when it's actually quite empty, but IMO there are so many better options in Switzerland.

We like the ***Hotel Bellevue in Wengen. Have stayed there a few times over the years.

You could always leave your large suitcases in the Zurich Airport - we've done that. Not cheap, but an option.

With a week or so in Switzerland, it seems to me that you don't have much time left: As I understand your itinerary, you are planning 3 nights in Zurich (1 at the start and 2 at the end), at least 2 nights in Basel (it easily warrants that much IMO), and at least 2 nights in Wengen or Grindelwald (of those two, I'd go for Wengen in a heartbeat), and IMO, you might consider adding a night in Wengen (really, two nights does not give you much time!) -- that's a week by my count.

If you have a few extra days, you could add in any of a variety of places -- I encourage you to consult the <i>Michelin Green Guide</i>, which proved invaluable to me when I planned my time in Switzerland, or perhaps even my trip report -- just click on my screen name to find it.

Good luck!

kja....I am not going to stop in Basel. might leave big suitcases in Zurich airport, do you think it is real safe to do that? Also am wondering if we spent two nights in Wengen, and took the "cable"ds over to Grindelwald, maybe that would be a nicer alternative to Zurich. I did get a new Frommers/Switzerland today, as mine was 15 yrs old. We are definitely doing Wengen. Sue thanks again.

Leaving luggage in a Swiss train station or airport, whether in a locker or at a locker desk, is about as safe as it gets! I, personally, wouldn't think twice about it. JMO.

Hi again,

Each of us has different ideas about where we might spend an extra night in Switzerland. I'm with kja on this one -- I would add those nights to one of your present destinations, either Basel (I know it's not one of your present destinations, but you will be going through it . . .) or Wengen. But then again I'm a slow traveller and hate to move bases; I far prefer finding fun and interesting things to do where I am. I find walks and hikes and bike rides or corners or cafes to sit and watch folks stroll by.

But.

If you really want to see someplace else, I agree with Pal that Lake Geneva would be a good alternative. Since it sits in the French speaking part of the country, it will give you the most contrast with what you've already seen. It's not a mountain destination, and in architecture and some cultural aspects, it more resembles the French Riviera than a stereotypical Swiss destination (but it IS thoroughly Swiss -- it's a country of great variety). I've actually spent more time in Montreux than in any other Swiss destination; I get there every year or every other year, and I stay for 2 weeks.

However, there is a HUGE Jazz Festival in Montreux held for 3 weeks every July. If you or your son like jazz, that could be a great draw for you. But if you're not a fan, it could make it a totally miserable choice. The lakeside promenade (one of the best features of Montreux) is always packed in summertime, but during the jazz festival, it is elbow-to-elbow. You could escape the madness and stay in nearby Vevey, and then just come to Montreux to visit the promenade, the old town, and Chillon castle.

While Montreux is very resort-y, Vevey is very residential. Vevey has fewer hotels, and the English-speakers you'll meet there are more likely to be long-term visitors (3 to 6 months) or expats than tourists. Vevey has a nice lakeside promenade, but it's neither as long nor as pretty as Montreux's. Vevey's old town is right next to the lake, and you can spend an interesting few hours there exploring the winding streets and popping into shops and cafes. Montreux's old town is up on a hill above the town, and it has great views over the town and the lake.

www.montreux-vevey.com

Ok, and another alternative would be the town of Gstaad. It will also be very popular and crowded in summertime, but I've never seen tour busses there. They hold a classical music festival, but I think it's usually toward the end of July and into August. Gstaad is characterized by lower rolling hills than high peaks, but I find that just beautiful (more beautiful, in fact, than the Jungfrau area). Gstaad sits at the border between the French and German speaking parts of the country, so it's an interesting place to see. There are gorgeous walks from Gstaad to nearby towns (about 1h or 1h30) or wonderful hikes in the mountains above Gstaad.

www.gstaad.ch

Whew. Ok. Those are my suggestions. Have fun with your research!

s

Paying more attention to your last post, in which you wrote “am wondering if we spent two nights in Wengen, and took the "cable"ds over to Grindelwald, maybe that would be a nicer alternative to Zurich,” I would encourage you to think a bit about whether what you want is to enjoy Switzerland’s cities – such as Zurich (which often hold museums or churches with notable works of art and interesting markets and public squares and streets) or time to enjoy the Swiss Alps and outdoors (as you would in Wengen). That’s a BIG difference! And of course, there are cities that give more or less opportunity to see and enjoy the Alps….

If you are leaning toward the cities, consider Zurich and Bern, among other options. If you are leaning to country, consider more time in Wengen or Gruyeres or a place like Wengis, outside of Lucerne. And if you want a bit of each, Montreux or Vevey might be a good choice (but note swandav’s warning about the Jazz Festival).

I think making a choice about WHAT you want to experience will help you narrow your options quite a lot.

Good luck!

kja -- Weggis is the town outside of Luzern :">

This could be important as the op researches online & in the guidebook she's purchased.

s

@ swandav -- yes, I know! But if the OP is leaning against cities, getting a bit outside one, even one already visited, might be worth considering. And maybe that's why you wanted to make that clear...?

, but I find that just beautiful (more beautiful, in fact, than the Jungfrau area)>

Not many would share that assessment for the average tourist looking for glacier-girdled Alpine peaks - Gstaad no doubt is pretty but also does not have the panoply of mountain trains, thrilling gondolas to get around - the Jungfrau Region is much more of what the average first-time tourist is looking for IMO.

I've only gone thru Gstaad on the train and got off and walked around the town - to me is pales in comparison with the sheer awesome beauty of the Jungfrau Region - of course it is beautiful too in its own right - but for someone to go there on a first trip to Switzerland rather than Jungfrau or Zermatt I think would be a mistake.

And they're off...

I am definitely not one of those people who swears that "Zurich is only a business city" and I agree with KJA's description that there is plenty to see and do. In fact, I just booked nights in a Zurich hotel for July 2017 as we get ready to go south for the Bernina Express.

That said, the city is just that: a city with lots to offer. The stereotypical alpine views of the Berner Oberland and those are seen from the places you are thinking of going and even in the hated (by some) Grindelwald s as well as Murren, Wengen and the whole lot of them and these latter places are not cities in any way, shape, or form.

And then there's LacLeman which is a whole other world once again which offers a variety of towns as well as cities and the wonderful lake views.

It can be hard to decide in Switzerland; I know because I've been a whole bunch of times and going again next year. Enjoy your trip.

@ swandav -- oh, just noticed the unseen autocorrect! Yes WEGGIS is what I meant, and thank you for clarifying!

Yes, kja, that's what I meant! Ah, the dreaded autocorrect. Yes, I think it'll be easier for the OP to do her research with the correct spelling.

Pal, why do you always have to come in to make negative comments on my posts? Please note that I did not say she should go to Gstaad INSTEAD of going to the Jungfrau area. I said: "I would add those nights to one of your present destinations, either Basel . . . or Wengen."

Then I added that IF she wants to see another, additional area (ADDITIONAL area), then she could consider Gstaad.

And yes, I agree that "Not many would share that assessment for the average tourist looking for glacier-girdled Alpine peaks - ," but my opinion on Gstaad is just MY opinion. I stated very clearly that the Gstaad area does not have the high peaks that the Jungfrau region has, and then I added my personal opinion that I like this area more. What in the world is wrong with that?? Of course people have different opinions. I have mine. I will write mine here, so long as I don't give the wrong impressions.


Really, Pal, I am so tired of always defending my posts to you, especially when your comments seem to come from a mis-reading of what I've written.

s

, but I find that just beautiful (more beautiful, in fact, than the Jungfrau area)>

this is what you said and what I said few other folks would agree with - if that is negative well in your mind maybe - just saying that you are one of the few folks who would say that.

How did I misread that and I respond in case someone puts credence in your comments- as they should because you are a real expert on SwitZerland - to make sure they do not make a mistake of going to Gstaad rather than the Jungfrau Region.

Try not to be so sensitive to perceived criticism which in fact is just disagreeing with you.

Pal,

It is a misreading because we both agree that the OP should spend time, first and foremost, in the Jungfrau region. As I explained above, I said: "I would add those nights to one of your present destinations, either Basel . . . or Wengen."

It is a misreading because you say,

" . . but for someone to go there on a first trip to Switzerland rather than Jungfrau or Zermatt I think would be a mistake . . ."

I never said they should go to Gstaad rather than going to the Jungfrau. As I explained above, I said that IF she wants to see another, additional area (ADDITIONAL area), then she could consider Gstaad.

I will continue to be sensitive when you misread my comments.

No, you are not simply disagreeing with me. If you were simply disagreeing with me, you would let my single opinion about Gstaad stand. Those opposing opinions could stand in one thread, and future readers could judge on their own. But no, you challenge my opinion. It is as if you cannot imagine it or maybe cannot tolerate it when someone likes another mountainous area more than the Jungfrau. Well, some do. Now, that is a simple disagreement.


s

It is as if you cannot imagine it or maybe cannot tolerate it when someone likes another mountainous area more than the Jungfrau.>

I can tolerate it and respect it but really can't imagine it.

Why do you think Gstaad is more beautiful than the Jungfrau Region? I'm curious about why. I could buy as beautiful in its own way but more (and again that is your opinion and of course that cannot be challenged).

Again I reacted only because you are such a Swiss expert and folks take what you think very seriously - but if they then think the Gstaad area is more beautiful than the Jungfrau or Zermatt areas they may go there instead if they only go to one Alpine wonderland, which I think is a mistake - don't you?

Now as another stop - yes - fine or on a future trip.

Let me apologize if I offended you - none was intended and I respect you greatly as a Swiss/Bavarian expert and truly feel bad that your feelings were hurt - I will try to refrain from disagreeing with you in the future.

Nuff said.

OK folks, "play nice". I have this much figured out...I have one week (after a two week cruise). First night in Zurich, leave bags, and I have a very nice hotel nailed down in Zurich already. On to Zermatt for two nights, not sure about hotel yet, two nights Wengen, maybe the Schonegg. back to Zurich for two nights (hotel nailed down). Son is an Art History Prof so I am mixing the city with mountains, and a train ride around Switzerland. the issue now is that an elevator in the hotel would be helpful (knee replacement,not recent, but doing well), and I can research this part. I know that hotels have little electric carts, some of them do for pick up at trains. So thanks for all the suggestions so far. I have until next Summer to finalize this, but is fun to think about. Appreciate the help. Sue will get Swiss rail passes too.

the issue now is that an elevator in the hotel would be helpful (knee replacement,not recent, but doing well), and I can research this part.>

If stairs are an issue in train stations you may well have to go down stairs to get over to the exit or other platforms, like perhaps at Interlaken-Ost but most have lifts or will provide special help if requested in advance.

Wengen hotel experts- are Wengen hotels likely to have lifts? Or try to get a room on the ground floor.