Switz-Germany-Austria 2.5 weeksHELP!!! PLEASE!!
 

We arrive in Geneva on Feb 12th. My daughter wants to ski once or twice so thought of going to Chamonix,then on to Zermatt, Wengen. Luzern. My husband flies into Munich and we were going to meet and stay in Garmisch and use that as a home base for 4 days. Want to see St. Anton, Davos, St. Moritz. Then thinking of going to Badgastein for a w/end, driving thru Kitzbuhl and Salzburg before flying out of Munich.
I am overwhelmed! Want to "train it" (in Switz) til mu hubby arrives. Then should we rent a car for Germany and Austria?

Any and all help is appreciated!

Hi char60,

Why go to Chamonix? If it's to ski in Feb, your daughter can do that at both Zermatt and Wengen; going to Chamonix will add complications and take days away from your plan.

Your journey seems to be going all over the map: Luzern-Munich-Garmisch-St Anton-Davos-St. Moritz. It doesn't make much sense to me. I recommend you take a look at a map and then plan out some journeys using www.rail.ch for trains and www.mappy.com for driving. Can hubby meet you in St. Moritz, and then together you can do Austria and Bavaria and end up in Munich?

Are you flying out of Munich?

Have fun planning!

s

So, it looks as if we should skip Chamonix...ok...she is happy to ski anywhere. Would St. Moritz be a good meeting place? Should we try & stay there or a smaller tow?
Yes, we are flying out of Munich on 3/1.
Where do you suggest would be good "home bases"?
Thanks!

Hi Again,

I'm not going to be much help, char60, because I don't know Bavaria/Austria well at all. I spent a week in Salzburg and used it as a base for Kitbuehel, Zell, & Innsbruck, but I don't know about St Anton.

Perhaps someone will soon step in with a great plan!

In the meantime, I repeat my recommendation that you sit down with a great map. Mark the places you want to see, then find one location that looks central to most of them. Then verify travel times (by rail with www.rail.ch or by road with www.mappy.com). I always limit my day-trips to two hours in each direction. Pretty soon you'll know where you want to stay.

And of course I don't know if you should stay in St Moritz or in a smaller town -- only you can know that. Do you like big towns or small ones generally? I spent a week in Zuoz and used it to day-trip the area (Guarda, Zernez, St. Moritz, Sils, Soglio, Pontresina, Poschiavo), but it was too small for my taste actually. I've only been through St. Moritz once, so I have no idea really what's great about it. A friend who loves the Engadin prefers the towns of Sils or Scuol. This same friend spent a week in St. Moritz in Oct, and here is a link to his report, with photos:

http://www.worldisround.com/articles/229817/index.html

It may give you some ideas to see if you'll like the place.

Hoping someone will come up with a great game plan.

s

ps, for a trip of, what, 16 or 17 days, I think you should try to have about five stops.

I had the same reaction as swanday2000.

You are all over the map and many of the places you pick are really not the best for non-skiers.

What do you want to do? Ski or sightsee, or do both? If you (parents) are not skiers, you probably may wish to stay in a larger city for your part of the vacation. If the weather turns bad (snow storm or the usual "February thaw")in some of the places you mention, there really isn't much to do for you.

Here are my suggestions. They are all places I have been to and/or skied:

If you can, get an open jaw flight to Zuerich, take the train directly from the airport to Grindelwald. Make that your "ski headquarters". After your daughter has gotten the skiing "out of her system", take the train to Luzern, and do a bit of sightseeing there. Then take the train to Munich. Meet your husband there. Allow a couple of days for visiting the city, and when there is a clear day, take a day trip by train to Garmisch and the Zugspitze. Yoiu daughter can skiat the top of the Zugspitze, Germany's highest mountain. Then, from Munich, take the train to Salzburg and stay there for a few days, again doing day trips (perhaps by car) to Berchtesgaden, Hallstatt, St. Wolfgang and perhaps even an "overnighter" to Vienna.

Return your car in Austria and proceed back to Munich for your flight home.

For RR schedules, visit www.bahn.de This site will also cover the Swiss and Austrian portions of your train travel.

We have already booked our flights and have paid a change fee once...the girls and I are flying into Geneva on 2/12. My husband is flying into Munich 2/17; we are all flying home from Munich on 3/1, everything else is open.
What is the girls and I went from Geneva to Vevey for 1 or 2 nights, then on to Gstaad.
From there to Wengen for 2 days and then poss. take the Bernina Express and then meet my husband in Garmisch.???(We like samll, qauint towns vs. cities).

Hi char60,

The train trip from Tirano (the end station of the Bernina Express) to Garmisch ranges from 9h10 (with four changes)to 11h15 (with three changes). If you backtrack to St. Moritz, the trip from St. Moritz to Garmish is about 6h57 (with four changes). That's why it's not a good idea.

Get. A. Map.

s

Good morning and Happy New Year!

As the others said, your itinerary is quite confusing. It seems to me you want to hit all the famous skiing resorts in the Alps. On the other hand - you (parents) are non-skiers, and there is in fact not much sightseeing to do in such places. Sure, many people do just winter hiking, sleigh rides, sledding, dining and *nothing* in the ski resorts, but that's not what you are looking for, eh?

I suggest you head straight from Geneva to Grindelwald or Wengen for two days skiing, then go to Zermatt (if you need to see it), where you could stay one or two nights, gaze at the peaks or so while your daughter is skiing another day. From there take the Glacier Express to ST. Moritz area and stay in a nearby village (Sils, Pontresina). Your hubby could rent a car in Munich and drive to St. Moritz area, where you could meet. Stay another day there (the area is good for excursions, e.g. Bernina Express, sleigh ride in the Fex valley, sledding at Muottas Muragl or Preda-Berguen, some small museums and galleries etc.) and then head to Garmisch, which is indeed a good base for some days.

Stay there four or five nights, see the Ludwig castles, convent Ettal, Linderhof, Benediktbeuern etc. while your daughter can do some skiing again.

With the few days left over you could go to Badgasteinto experience some k.u.k. Habsburg ambience :-) in the coffeehouses and for recreation in the spas ... Finally you could drive via Salzburg (spend a half day there sightseeing) to Munich, spend the night and drop off your car, fly home the next day.

Since you did not tell us about special interests or just the reasons why you picked the places you listed it is difficult to advise you properly.

Ingo

Happy New Year to You All!
I am not "married" to any place except Geneva, our entrance city, and Munich, our departure city. I think that I am just "information overloaded" (and I do have maps, lots of them!)
I just want my family to get the feel of the different areas and the more I read, they all sound so great! (I must admit one of our favorite trips was to go to Lucca in Tuscany 2 years ago where we had villa and just did day trips...very simple).
Anyway, we definetely prefer smaller, quaint towns and really have no interest in larger cities. We will all ski probably 1 or 2 days, my daughter and husband maybe a couple more.
I apologize for seeming so scattered; just overwhelmed, as I said.
I really do appreciate all suggestions!
CC

Ingo & Swandav2000,
Ok, how is this itinerary???
Arrive Geneva 9:20 am 2/12. Train to Vevey, overnight and explore Chateau Chillons on Sunday
Monday: Golden Pass to Gstaad. 1 night
Tues: Golden Pass to Wengen or Grindelwald
Thurs: Glacier Express (are you sure this is great? I have read that it gets a little much at the end?)to St. Moritz; stay in Pontresina Thurs-Mon
Sat: Hubby drives fro Munich (how far by car?)
Mon-Thurs:Garmisch
Thurs-Sun Badgastein
Sun-Salzburg
Tues-Munich
Wed_Fly home
I have an extra day; any suggestions.
Be patient, I think I am getting there...

Well I absolutely adore Vevey, so will say yes yes yes to your Sat/Sun plan! Plus it is extremely easy to land at the Geneva airport and catch a train out to Lausanne, Vevey, or Montreux.

I visit Switzerland often but have never attempted such an ambitious itinerary, so sorry can't help more.

I like your new itinerary better. What I don't like, however, are stays of only one night. So I would probably skip Gstaad (sorry, swandav :-) ) and head straight to Wengen.

The Glacier Express to (St. Moritz-) Pontresina is quite ambitious from Wengen. You need to get to Brig first, which requires changes in Lauterbrunne, Interlaken Ost, Spiez. It will be a very long train ride. But you can check options with www.rail.ch

The drive from Munich to Pontresina is 3 or 4 hours, depending on weather and possible traffic jams. Your hubby might start early (or late afternoon) since Sat is the day when all the skiers drive to the Alps ... me included :-) The route is Munich - Garmisch - Fernpass - Landeck - and up the Inn river valley to Pontresina. In Imst (past Fernpass) make sure not to take the motorway (toll) the few miles to Landeck - the drive on the major road is not much longer.

I agree that you are trying to see too much.Grindelwald very nice great skying and a must to go up to the top of Europe,Jungfraujock.There you can go a few miles to Interlaken great shopping and 5 star hotel.If you go to Garmisch you must stay at the Eisbee Hotel at the base of Zugspitz.Garmisch is a beautiful little evillage.Very nice.Also great skying in this town.I would also suggest a trip to Salzburg a most beautiful part of Austria.From here i would then finish in Munich,a very large city with every Gucci type store posible.A couple of days here at the most,so many other beautiful sights to see.Remember if you are not traveling by train these are mountain roads ,narrow and not all that fast. Takes time to travel.Have a great time.

BIG UPDATE!! My husband just found out that this trip will not work into his work schedule...So, it will just be myself & the 2 girls (13 & 22)Yikes! This does free up our itinerary a bit since we will have no deadlines except being in Munich 3/1. Big question: are the roads in Austria & Switz easy to drive? I would try and get a car w/ GPS or are we better off just "training it?
(This trip is going to drive me to drink :)

Trains, trains, trains.

Hi,

I agree with jw: use the trains! No hassles about getting lost, where to park, how to pay for parking, etc! It's also nice to enjoy a picnic while watching the scenery slip by.

I suggest you pack light, though, so luggage won't be a problem. Use lightweight undershirts that can wash & dry overnight (fewer bulky sweaters).

Will you also pare down your list of destinations?

Have fun!

s

Swandav2000& Ingo<
Could you both suggest an updated itinerary via trains from geneva 2/11 to Munich 3/1. I think I would really like Gstaad to be included....
Thanks again so much!

Trains are great but you will have a hard time sight seeing except for the major cities and whee ever the train drops you off. In places such as Garmisch,Grindelwald,Gstad you will not always have cabs.If you rent a car and can read a map you will be ok.The mountain roads are spectacular and the day trips would be worth it.

Hm, too bad your hubby cannot travel with you!

On the other hand, this should not affect your itinerary very much.

Of course you can spend a night or two in Gstaad before heading to Wengen. I would probably deduct this day from Pontresina (on the other hand, I LOVE this place :-) ).

This itinerary is very doable by train/bus. The trip from Pontresina to Garmisch e.g. requires 3 changes and an hour waiting in Innsbruck. Pack light!

Are you sure you want to see so many towns? It sounds like a whirlwind tour to me. Too much hassle with packing/unpacking, check in/out etc.

Open to suggestions (ie simpler itinerary)

Hi char60,

I started from scratch with only your start & end points and Gstaad as the givens. This is what I would do (I'm not giving the number of days; that's for you to decide!):

I would do Geneva airport to Montreux to Gstaad to Brig to St Moritz to Scuol to Innsbruck to Munich.

Notes:
Montreux -- I wouldn't stay overnight in Vevey because the train up to Gstaad leaves from Montreux -- so why not just stay there instead?

Gstaad -- good for you!! I love this area! Good skiing here too.

Brig -- Apparently there's only one Glacier Express each day (other routes take you up to Zuerich or down to Milan, etc), and it leaves Brig at 12.20. The trip from Gstaad to Brig takes about 2h30, so I would break this into two days. Spend one night in Brig, enjoy the charming town and its surrounding mountains, maybe take a gondola up to the Aletsch Glacier; the next day, enjoy a leisurely breakfast, then continue your journey. I've spent one afternoon in Brig and enjoyed it a lot; I'm planning to spend three days there this June. I think it'll be a nice stop.

Scuol -- It's just so much closer to Austria than St. Moritz is, so spending a day or two here will make your continuing journey easier. Apparently there are busses that run from Scuol to Landeck in Austria that take about two hours; from Landeck you can take a train to Innsbruck in about an hour or to Garmisch in about two hours.

Trains -- use the trains!! I've only driven on two of my 14 trips to Switzerland and regretted it both times. Parking and gas will eat up your budget very quickly. Parking is hard to find. If you're on the train and you see an inviting village, it's easier than pie to get to that village by bicycle, on foot, by bus, by ferry, or on a local train. You'll be moving with the locals. I also really enjoy having a picnic of incredible, fresh food (cheese, bread, yogurt, chocolate) while watching the scenery. You can also get a reduced pass (SaverPass) for two or more people travelling togeter.

I hope this helps you focus a bit!

s

ps, If you want to save a night, go directly from the Geneva airport to Gstaad. The trip is less than three hours with the change in Montreux, so it'll be an easy trip. You may fall in love with Lake Geneva, though, but you can plan a return trip!

s

Ingo, your pics from Jan '04 have expired... can you send a new link.

Don't give up on me now...I have read all sorts of your (and Swandav200's :) reports. You def know Switz. (Where do u live, btw)???

Can't find any accomodations in Gstaad (sorry Swandav). Looks like it is Wengen (or surrounding area) from Geneva.

Yes, I'm not surprised that Gstaad's hotels are all full. I will bet that Wengen's are also -- people reserve months ahead for ski season. Let us know when you find something!

s

Yup, no luck in Wengen either. Any ideas? Interlaken sounds so touristy...yuk! Any hotels suggestions, though?

Well, try some of the smaller towns that are less well known to tourists or are farther from skiing.

Near Gstaad, try Saanen, Rougemont, Chateau d'oex, or Rossiniere (the website www.pays-denhaut.ch will cover three of them, and the Gstaad website will cover Saanen).

Near Wengen, but not on the mountain, try Interlaken, Thun, or Lauterbrunnen. Lauterbrunnen will be better for skiing. You can get the websites by adding ".ch" to each town name, so www.lauterbrunnen.ch for Lauterbrunnen, etc.

Good luck!

s

Well, the Pays d'Enhaut site is down right now, so go to www.chateau-doex.ch. You can search by date & number of stars for all the nearby villages under "Reservations On Line" at the top of the page. I just did a quick search for 15 Feb and had a few hotels come up.

Good luck!

s

CHARLENE, I like the plan by Ingo above---keep it simple.

You might try

http://www.kreuz-leissigen.ch/

if you're still looking for something at the base of the Oberland. Leissigen is very small, just between Interlaken and Spiez on Thunersee.

More towns at thunersee.ch

On Brienzersee, try Brienz for a spectacular view of the mountains across the lake. J.

Hi Charlene,

what was the link to those pictures? I think I'll have to post them at another website if the old link doesn't work anymore.

In the meantime, you could have a look at my Virtualtourist-page. I posted some pictures and tips about both St. Moritz and Scuol areas there.

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/

I live in Dresden, Germany.

Hi Ingo!
happy to hear you are still around! I am making progress! I have made an itinerary that I think will work! Yeah!
Lausanne-3 nts @ Beau Rivage (booked)
Interlaken (couldn't find anything in Wengen + I think this is a good hub)-4 nts at Royal St. Georges (booked)
St. Moritz AREA (Potrsina, Sils, Scuol??)3 nts- (not booked; Hotel Waldhaus is full) Need ideas, please
Garmisch-4 nts (not booked)
Salzburg-1 nt " "
Munich 1 2 nts. " "
Your pics that I was referring to were from '03 trip to Engadine where you were talking about skiing both xc & d/hill and food w/ chestnuts....

I'll try to post the pictures on another website - but it will take a couple of days.

I do not like Interlaken very much (especially in winter I don't think it's a good choice), but you are right, it is a good transportation hub. You can easily daytrip to the mountains or a city like Thun or Bern.

If you are looking for 4/5-star hotels - there are many in the Engadin. I have not stayed in a lot of those, though :-)

Pontresina will probably be a good choice - try hotels like the Walther, Saratz, Schweizerhof. Sils is better for skiing - try the Edelweiss or the Hotel Post. However, if you are travelling by train you should know that getting to/from Sils requires a bus ride of 20 minutes from the ST. Moritz railway station.

In case you decide to stay in Scuol (which is less touristy), you could try Hotel Chaste in Tarasp (remote location, but shuttle service). Scuol has very nice, cosy, small hotels in the town which are 3star level. I like the Traube, Astras (recently renovated with direct access to the spa) and Engiadina e.g.

I stayed in Schweizerhof, Pontresina. It's a nice hotel with a jacuzzi and sauna. We were happy with it.