PLEASE, somebody tell me what I am missing on this dullest of threads. French supermarkets sell French wine and cheese. Brilliant. Trader Joes are available in Berlin. Welcome to the 21st century.

Not 10 minutes from where I am now in Wiltshire I can buy asparagus from Peru and blueberries from Argentina. I don't want to but I can. And Polish things in jars, labelled in Polish. Forgive me if I am not open-mouthed in wonder.

I was joking about Starbucks, that is even less interesting.

Perhaps this will put an end to questions about what to put in Red Cross parcels from the USA when visiting friends in Europe.

"PLEASE, somebody tell me what I am missing on this dullest of threads. French supermarkets sell French wine and cheese. Brilliant. Trader Joes are available in Berlin. Welcome to the 21st century."

Trader Joe's are not available in Berlin, just some of their products are available in Aldi shops.

See, this is a fascinating information which gets you flabbergasted, isn't it?

And most interestingly, while the US Aldi markets are operated by Aldi Sued, Trader Joe's was acquired by Theo Albrecht of Aldi Nord at the end of the 1970ies.

"PLEASE, somebody tell me what I am missing on this dullest of threads"

It hasn't started yet, that's what you're missing.

PQ's going to do trip reports on supermarkets, and probably needs a few cans of B&Q gloss first to get him going. If you've got problems once he starts - wait till he moves onto Homebase vs Mr Bricolage. Or Wickes UK vs Wickes USA

And if you believe all supermarkets are the same, you're just not looking. Precisely because you almost certainly WON'T find Argentine blueberries - or even decent Ozzie chardonnay - in most French Carrefours (though you do in eastern Europe). Or identically perfect veg. Or edible cheddar.

Chain food stores are where the delusions of big business that it controls the world run right into the refusal of ordinary people to be run.

Picardie, for example, is France's great monument to telling Tesco (who briefly owned it, messed it up, and got out fast) to bugger off back to Cheshunt. Leclerc's commercially successful refusal to have anything to do with modern notions of customer service or even basic politeness puts it up there with Ryanair in understanding what customers really want. And the absence of a Wal-Mart from PQ's list shows how self-deluding the American myth of its invincibility is: it ran away from Germany as ruefully (and expensively) as Napoleon turned back from Moscow, and now its only European operation is Asda getting on with running things, and hopelessly trailing Tesco, just like it did before Wal-Mart turned up.

Why? Carrefour France, Tesco, Asda, Leclerc and Picardie understand their customers in a way no foreigner ever can. The millions of subtle differences between them offer an insight into real differences between what different people want - which is why this post has brought out so many other supermarket spotters.

Palenque: I just looked it up. Trader Joe's is owned by a family thrust of Theo Albrecht (family thrusts are pretty popular with the really rich people in Germany for tax and inheritance law reasons).

He's the owner of Aldi North, while the Aldi stores in the USA are operated by Aldi South.

I'm not sure whether my comment of an argument between the two brothers leading to the split is really correct. It might be closer to reality that they just had different opinions about some points and wanted to do their own thing, splitting on friendly terms. At least they don't exhibit any of the hostility to each other often common in family feuds, but their companies act in many ways (for example purchasing) as if they were subsidiaries of one company.

I find it quite interesting to watch how other countries will react to the expansion of Aldi and Lidl. In Germany they were for some time regarded as the cheap discounter where only the poor riff-raff shopped, but that image changed decades ago. Today the vast majority of Germans shop there for at least part of their things and the discounters completely changed the retail market in Germany.

If you want to be depressed, walk into a Danish supermarket. Truly awful. Netto or Fakta would be the worst. Super Best would likely be the best, but that ain't saying much. Aldi is pretty much c**p, too. Have never been in a Lidl.

<i>In Germany they were for some time regarded as the cheap discounter where only the poor riff-raff shopped, but that image changed decades ago.</i>

Is it that the image changed, or that Germans decided that they simply don't care enough about food to pay for quality? That is certainly the case the Denmark.

1. A vast majority of Germans doesn't care about food and quality.

2. Even people who do care about food and quality would likely shop at Aldi for select items.
Aldi's quality standards for many of their products are outstanding and among the highest in the industry. I know of 1 producer who supplies a very reputable German delicatessen brand and Aldi who told me that his better quality products go to Aldi as their standards and requirements were in fact higher than that of the high-price posh brand.
It would simply be stupid not to shop at Aldi in general.

3. Aldi clientele is constituted from all classes, which makes Aldi somewhat the equivalent of a Volkswagen Golf.

4. I agree that it is not possible to rely solely on Aldi and still have top-quality food, but it's certainly possible and even advisable to incorporate Aldi in one's list of suppliers.

5. Lidl is basically the same concept as Aldi, but stocks more brand names as opposed to store brand products at Aldi (which are generally produced by big brand makers anyway). However, Lidl appears to be involved every once in a while in the odd scandal (price cartels, employee abuse etc), while Aldi is hardly mentioned in such context.

Aldi is responsible for a peculiarly German phenomenon.

As they developed, they put local mom&pop grocery stores out of business. But, because they originally sold very few products (only as many as checkout operators could remember the prices of), they didn't damage nearby butchers, greengrocers, fishmongers or charcuteries anything like as much.

But, because Aldi was so cheap, big supermarkets slightly further away from where people lived didn't damage inner-city shopping areas as much in Germany (because Aldi was offering the cheap packaged goods) as they did in Britain or France.

So, to get good fresh food, people carried on patronising the small shopping centres that had these specialists - and bought their cat food and detergent from the next door Aldi at the same time. It was the cluster of "hard discounter" (as supermarketologists call Aldi) and traditional fresh food retailers that kept these centres viable, and classless.

Aldi's developed differently elsewhere. In Britain, it's been so downmarket till recently many middle-class people still haven't heard of them. In France, they've kept fresh food specialists alive in many towns too small to justify a Carrefour, but big enough to justify an Aldi. But that combination has destroyed mom& pop groceries, and fresh food specialists in smaller villages, where people now drive 5-10 miles for cheap groceries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trader_Joe%27s

I think most of us visit supermarkets while traveling. I always bring back things I can't find in the states such as porcini boullion cubes.

Is there a Carrefour in central Paris? I don't think I know it. We use the Monop on Rue St. Antoine. While I appreciate their selection, it's not the most convivial atmosphere. There's a G20 minimarket closer where I can buy milk every other day. I also love the other minimarket "Huit a Huit," just because I like to say it.

Hetismij, where would you grocery shop (milk, cereal, coffee) in central Amsterdam?

I know it's boring, but when you're living in a flat, even for a week, grocery shopping becomes important!

melissa, there are Albert Heijns and other supermarkets all over the centre of Amsterdam. Where are you staying? I can then tell you your closest Appie (Albert Heijn ;) ).
Some will only be small but they will still have a good assortment.

If you are staying in the flat you asked about, on the Prinsengracht, then your nearest Albert Heijn is Elandsgracht 13A, on the other side of the Prinsengracht, near the houseboat museum. There is also one on the Westermarkt, near the Anne Farnkhuis. Both are open 7 days a week.

I love going to grocery stores in different countries. Even the last time I was home, my daughter and I had a great time in a giant American grocery store, taking photos and laughing. I am sure the clerks thought we were nuts, especially since we sound very Ohioian.

Anyway, I like Aldis a lot, not only because they often do have high quality products, but also fresh. The eggs and the produce sell out every day. So even though it is a lot of fun to go to produce markets, and they look very pretty, it often is the case that these fruits and veggies have been around for a while.

The meat there is crap though.

A few years back one of the big magazines here did an olive oil test, between major brands, cheap store brands and very expensive store brands. Guess which one came out on top? The Aldi stuff. This was in competition with the 40 euro a bottle olive oil. So, I don't sneer at the products offered.

"Is it that the image changed, or that Germans decided that they simply don't care enough about food to pay for quality?"

I agree with hsv, it's a mixture. In relation to their income, Germans pay less for food compared to many other European nations. This is probably a mixture of less interest in food and in an extremely competitive market which keeps the prices down.

But as an example, my parents care a lot about their food. For them, a typical Saturday shopping would be vegetables and cheese on a farmer market, meat from a butcher, bread from a bakery but then Aldi for milk, toilet paper or soap. These things are at least as good at Aldi as in any other supermarket but much cheaper (though there is little choice, so if you don't like the Aldi brand out of some reason, you need to buy that item somewhere else).

40 years ago Aldi in Germany was more like in Britain today with some social stigma attached that the middle class doesn't buy there but shops in "real" super markets. But then the German middle class decided that they liked the cheap prices :-)

And for that certainly the high quality of the products helped. (With high quality I don't mean that something you buy is the best tasting stuff but that it isn't old or that any contamination is in it or such a thing.) Since for most suppliers Aldi is the by far biggest customer due to its high turn-over, losing them can be the ruin of the company. And Aldi has in any contract a clause that it can be terminated in case of a quality problem and they're rigorous in enforcing it, so suppliers are very anxious not to mess up with the Aldi products.

This results in the discounters normally being close the top when such generic products as milk, butter, yoghurt or canned tomatoes are tested. So many people try the Aldi products and if they find them okay, they take advantage of the low prices. For the rest they shop somewhere else if they can afford to do so.

"Is there a Carrefour in central Paris?"

No. But there's a proper Auchan in the Quatre Temps centre at La Defense, which is handy for the metro/RER.

You've not really lived in a proper European city till you've mastered taking a full week's shopping home on the bus or tube during the rush hour.

I know, Pal. I went to Munich, Prague, Budapest and Vienna last month to the Christmas markets and I hit the Aldi in Munich and drooled over the chocolate, much more variety that we have here where I live , but it was the beginning of my trip so I waited. Also visited a HIT store by the hotel and in Vienna a Billa supermarket. I did not leave out the other 2 cities but I cannot remember the names of the stores.
Maybe this thread is boring to some but I love going to supermarkets for snacks and stuff while on vacation.

There are no Carrefours or Auchans in central Paris i believe for the simple reason that Parisian authorities set a limit on the square footage a supermarche can occupy - that is my understanding at least- so you see Champion, G20, ED, Price Leader (or Leader Price?), etc. operating really cramped supermarkets in smallish stores - products are stacked about to the ceiling, and tiny aisles.

Monnoprixs, all over Paris, also sell groceries, wine, etc but much more limited variety of products but are great for the tourist who would love to nab picnique supplies- they have a fresh bread and pastries counter, often with an outside window for sidewalk traffic and cheese and prepared salads, etc.

The Monop' stores, which i had not noticed during my last visit two years back, are Monoprix' version of our 7-11 -small and all the essentials but also i thought higher prices.

CARREFOUR MARKETS

I blinked twice out of the train window in Etampes when i glimpsed what seemed to say Carrefour Market on a stand-along smallish supermarket- and later driving around the Loiret i noticed several Carrefour Markets in smallish villages - these, i were told, were the product of Carrefour buying out some supermarket chain and re-branding them.

But they are typical supermarkets like Euro Marche - and not hypermarches.

I did not go into a Carrefour Market but my major surprise was their use of the word 'Market' instead of 'Marche' - does 'market' have some allure to the French like 'marche' may here in America?

Roll-out of the Carrefour Market banner in France - Carrefour Group
Carrefour Market : changes in stores ...
http://www.carrefour.com/.../roll-ou...nner-in-france...

Yup as i was thinking the Carrefour Markets may have been Champion markets - a few i noticed in the Loiret i thought had been Champion supermarches.

We were in Paris this past September, and on rue de Seine just off Blvd. St. Germaine was a Carrefour Market; we shopped there several times a week! Google Maps show it signed as a Champion, but it was plainly signed Carrefour while we were there...