Summer Trip to Germany/Austria - Feedback Would Be Appreciated
 

My wife and I are planning a summer of '03 trip to Germany and Austria. We're thinking of landing in Frankfurt and departing from Vienna. It would be our first trip to these countries, and we'd could probably manage a vacation of about 18 days. We plan to rent a car, and we prefer to stay in country inns or B &amp; Bs. <BR><BR>What follows is a proposed (albeit very rough) itinerary: <BR><BR>But first, we'd be most grateful for any comments, suggestions, tips on places to stay and/or dine, places to avoid, even sights to see. When we travel, we typically like to get off the beaten path, pursuing places of historic and cultural interest Thanks in advance.<BR><BR>Days 1 - 4: Spend this time in greater Bamberg, exploring Nurnberg and Wurzburg.<BR><BR>Days 5 &amp; 6: Rothenburg<BR><BR>Days 7 - 9: Southern Bavaria, perhaps based in Fussen.<BR><BR>Days 10 &amp; 11: Munich<BR><BR>Days 12 &amp; 13: Northwest Austria, perhaps Innsbruck as a base.<BR><BR>Days 14 &amp; 15 Greater Salzburg region.<BR><BR>Days 16 - 18 Vienna<BR><BR>Once again, any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.<BR><BR>

David, type the name &lt;Wes Fowler&gt; into the search box at the top of the page, highlight Germany in the text box and press find. Wes has posted several itineraries in Germany that may interest you, especially since you'll be renting a car. Also the site, www.bavariaben.com has much good information. Report in when you return.

Hello David, my wife and I did the identical trip 2 summers ago of Southern Bavaria and Austria. We stayed in Berchtesgden for 3 days and would highly recommend you use that as a base instead of Fussen. The trains, buses and taxis all are excellent from there. I would recommend 1 day in Salzburg with a day trip to Melk in Austria before or after you leave Vienna. We stayed in all B&amp;B's in small towns, except for Vienna &amp; Munich. Munich was a big disappointment after the quaint villages, I dont know if I would even go back there again, but certainly not 2 days. We flew into Franfurt and then to Munich. We stayed overnight in Fussen, Garmisch, Berchtesgaden (3nights)and from Berchtesgaden we did our day trip by bus to Salzburg; Vienna (2 nights); Hallstatt (Austria), Rothenburg (2 nights) and Munich. If I had to do the trip all over again I would stay in Berchtesgaden for 5 nights, Vienna 3 nights, Rothenburg 2 nights. We also rented a mini-van and drove. Hope this helps!

Dave - your itinerary seems doable, but may be alittle on the rushed side! I agree with Mike that Berchtesgaden would be a better base for Bavaria, but wholeheartedly disagree wyith him about Munich as it is one of my top 5. To each his own! I personally would allow 3-4 days in Munich - if you don't like it you can always leave early. You also might consider going from Bamberg to Munich - then to S. Bavaria then Austria. I also think you might be cutting Vienna too short. As S. Bavaria and the Innsbruck area are very much alike you should consider combing them. Rothenberg is quite small and can be easily seen in one full day. In any event I am sure you will enjoy your trip!

See St. Jakob's Church in Innsbruck, and eat some of those wonderful Austrian pastries for me.

We spent 6 days in Vienna (not by choice...we traveled with a 9mo and 2 year old). Vienna was beautiful...We stayed at the Vienna Marriott Hotel (Parkring 12a, A-1010 Vienna). This hotel was on the popular Oberring and is less than a mile to the St. Stephens cathedral (center point of interest in Vienna). The Schunbrunn Palace was beautiful...all the palaces were beautiful actually. Easy to use Metro lines. We took the Vienna Woods tour (bus/boat) to the Melk Abbey and that was beautiful... Also from Vienna we took a Danube (sp ?) and that too was interesting (never been in water locks).<BR>Enjoy...

Dear Folks,<BR><BR>A heartfelt thanks goes out to all those who've responded to my posting. It's impressive that in a matter of less than two days I received so many helpful and informative responses.<BR><BR>As regards Rothenburg, I've read that most tourists spend only the better part of a day in town, and then head out of Rothenburg and back to their hotel. This leaves the town quieter and more appealing to those who'll be staying overnight. In other words, is it not better to see Rothenburg when the tour buses have departed?<BR><BR>Perhaps it would be best if we stay just outside Munich - possibly at one of the nearby lakes - and tour the city with the help of public transportation.<BR><BR>As to Innsbruck, perhaps it would be best to spend another day in the far south of Bavaria and use this area as a base for a day trip into Innsbruck.<BR><BR>Finally, it seems preferable to spend at least another day near Salzburg (perhaps Hallstatt), as well as another day near Vienna. Would an overnight in Melk be a wise choice?<BR><BR>Ahh...so many possibilities.

David, I've been to Rothenburg 3 times and still haven't seen all of the old town! It is a great place to spend a night or two; it's much quieter in the later part of the day and early in the morning.<BR><BR>I wouldn't spend too much time in Innsbruck. Most people aren't that impressed. I'd definitely spend as much time as you can in Hallstatt. Very peaceful and relaxing (except in the peak summer months!) setting and you can take beautiful drives from there to Wolfgangsee or one of my favorite little towns, Abtenau.<BR><BR>If you are going to visit the Abbey in Melk, I would also suggest a visit to Durnstein in the Wachau. There's a great hotel in Durnstein (http://www.richardloewenherz.at/index-e.htm), but can't recommend anything in Melk.

David, I think those of us who love both Germany and Austria are worried that you'll only get a taste of each, but your itinerary is reasonable. What you want to see will impact the time you spend in each place. I'm not big on &quot;basing&quot; on this type of trip, because you'll eat up so much time driving back and forth. I know picking up and moving every night or two is not fun, either, but you will see/do more. The only thing I would change about your original itinerary would be to combine days 12-15 and stay in Berchtesgadenerland, as recommended by Mike and CharlieB. You could drive via Innsbruck to Berchtesgaden if you really want to visit that city, but I have to admit I'm with BettyK on that. Without more info, it's hard to know why you specifically picked the locations your did, so please don't take our advice if it's something you really want to see/do. I'd recommend you reverse directions just a tad at the start of your trip, going first to Rothenburg, which is an easy drive and will give you a quiet first night. I would stay there for three nights, then visit Wurzburg on Day 4, enroute to Bamberg. These will be very busy days, I expect, if you really walk while in Rothenburg and get to know all the little back streets and pathways. I think most tourists see the main drags and miss a lot of the town. Even at the height of tourist season, I've been the only person in the park at the edge of the wall. Days 5&amp;6, Bamberg/Nurnberg and then you'll be back on track. Yes, do stay a little ways outside Munich and use the U-Bahn or S-Bahn to get around. The Gasthaus Englischer Garten (on the edge of the park and fills up FAST) was great the last time I stayed there, but there are other quiet pensions on the side streets of Schwabing or other areas outside the city center. The Residenz will eat up most of a day, and you may have gotten your fill of its like in Wurzburg, so skip it you may, but don't miss Nymphenburg. It'll eat up a good half day, but worth it. Also visit the Asamkirche downtown for a baroque surprise. Rather than Fussen, I always recommend Schwangau, which is more out in the country and therefore quieter than the tourist-packed Fussen. I love the Hotel Rubezahl (www.neuschwanstein-hotel.com), which sits beside a working dairy, so you get to see the cows come and go morning and evening. Branching out, be sure to visit the Wieskirche for its architecture and if you enjoy classical music, check to see if a concert will be held in the church while you're there (www.wieskirche.de, schedule in March?). We cancelled one night's accommodations elsewhere just to catch a Bach concert there and almost swooned from the joy and power of the music. In Berchtesgadenerland, you can tour the salt mines if you have a day of bad weather, hike down from the Jenner if you're athletic for spectacular views of Konigssee, see the incomparable view of Ramsau painted by Eisenhower and everyone else since, and drive into Salzburg for the day. Please let me know if you need any other specific routes or recommendations, and best wishes for a wonderful trip. <BR>

Rothenburg: You are correct about staying overnight. It's really great to walk the town at dusk when everything is quiet. Do it! We stayed at the Berg hotel. It is an incredible little inn. We stayed in a Twer room and it was fantastic. They are on the web.<BR>In Vienna, I have to say that the Hotel Konig Von Ungarn is the best 4* establishment in Europe. I don't think I've ever seen a negative comment from anyone on this board. Everybody raves about it. We've stayed there 3 times and wouldn't dream about staying anywhere else.

Generally agree with comments but would not say stay in Berchtesgarden and not in F&uuml;ssen. Berchtesgarden perhaps has more impressive scenery, but I think F&uuml;ssen is prettier town - so both. Hotels in F&uuml;ssen - Parkhotel in &quot;suburb&quot; of Bad Faulenbach and Alpenblick on Hopfensee just outside F&uuml;ssen. Schwangau is very pretty but also total tourist enclave, better choice of restaurants etc in F&uuml;ssen itself.<BR>For Vienna hotels - Konig von Hungarn has charm but some rooms I think are a little tired (but overall Americans seem to love it). If I was spending Marriott money, I would not stay there but go for the much more stylish Ambassador Hotel on Karntnerstrasse - finished renovations last year. With Munich and Vienna plus other towns, I would not be too fussed about Wurzburg (check it for lunch) and Nurnberg/Bamberg would perhaps reduce to 2-3 days at most. Agree with others suggesting drop Innsbruck for other countryside places or more time Munich or Vienna.<BR>For staying just outside Munich, check out Tutzing on Starnbergersee- has lots of smaller hotels/pensions. It is on the S Bahn (end stop) but also fast trains going south (so 20 mins to Munich on that). Starnberg is also an option, but I think Tutzing has more charm and better places to swim in the lake. Also Berg (Dorint Hotel) on opposite side of lake from Starnberg (nice hotel, but a bit over priced). Starnberg/Tutzing are much more places for Munich people then foreigners - but very busy on weekends. Some say Starnberg is the richest town in Germany (Munich millionaires homes).

I would second the recommendation to spend a night in the Wachau valley area. Staying at a tiny b&amp;b winery overlooking the Danube, and getting up in the morning and renting bicycles to tour the vinyards and beer gardens along the river one of the highlights of our trip to Austria. The small villages in this area are blessed with many charming b&amp;b's, and you could probably just drive thru and choose one.

David,<BR><BR>I have done Germany and Austria 2 dozen times in the last 20 years. If I was going this summer, I'd consider the following itenary:<BR><BR>1. Fly into Frankfurt <BR><BR>2. From Frankfurt, get over to the Rhine. Stay for 2 nights along the Rhine in either Bacharach, Boppard, or Rudesheim. Check out the castles. Get a good nights sleep.<BR><BR>3. From the Rhine get to Rothenberg for the 2 nights that you say you want to.<BR><BR>4. From Rothenberg, go into Munich. Stay a few days in Munich. For me, 4 or 5 days is entirely too much. But, 2 or 3 nights in Munich would be just fine.<BR><BR>5. From Munich head towards Kufstein. You'll be on the border of Austria. Go through Kufstein to the GrosGlockner area of Austria. You can easily find some very nice, out of the way villages on your way to the GrossGlockner. Stay in any of these great villages for 2 or 3 nights.<BR><BR>6. From the GrossGlockner head to Salzburg area. I would agree with everyone out there that staying in Berchtesgaden is the way to go. It's 45 minutes by car, bus, or train from Salzburg. Stay in Berchtesgaden for 3 or 4 nights, include Salzburg trips from Berchtesgaden.<BR><BR>7. From Berchtesgaden you can easily drive to Vienna for your flight home.<BR><BR>Also, conisder going without reservations!! If you have a car you will never worry about reservations. there are plenty of small villages along the way that will always have a Zimmer Frei for you to jump into.<BR><BR>Have fun. I am going to try my best to get back over this summer<BR><BR>Bill

David, I don't hear much mention of some of the tourist traps that I feel are popular for a reason. They are so magical, even with all the people. We were in Bavaria last summer with my best friend, who is German (Trier) and had never done the tourist stuff. He did it for us, and was amazed as well. <BR>If you like castles and palaces, I would recommend Neuschwanstein (the model for Disney's Cinderella's palace and the one you see on so many Germany books), Hohenschwangau and Linderhoff. We did all three in the same day, easier because we had a car. Did N/H in the early part of the day, Linderhoff in the afternoon. We didn't have any issues with the crowds because they know how to handle them. Just make sure you get English tours if required. Maybe I am just a tourist at heart but I found them to be so beautiful. And, yes, I have seen other castles, also, having spent time in France. Maybe I just have real thing for castles. <BR>Going west from the region is Lake Constance with a beautiful island called Insa Minau. It is a wonderful collection flowers, trees. fountains and waterfalls. Very relaxing day.<BR>I find that basing somewhere can be an advantage because you can get nice flats as cheap, if not cheaper, than hotels. Our 2 BR apt for 3 was $40/night. You can have your breakfast before hitting the road. Also, you don't have to drag luggage in and out of the car. And, in Bavaria, everything is relatively close. Of course, having the car gives you added freedom by eliminating having to drag luggage around so basing is not so necessary. I always get a car because I hate to be tied to a train schedule. I will be making the trip to Bavaria + again in June, '03, this time taking my mother. She is 78 y/o and has always dreamed of going to Germany. Be ready to be swept up in the magic and don't ignore 'must sees' just because they are considered tourist spots. <BR>One last note...I picked up Insight Guides Germany book because it gives you some great routes, directing you through quaint villages (yellow roads) and gives you notes on them. The maps for each route are easy to read. You might want to look at it in the bookstore for review. We are flying into Munich and I am doing their trip to Salzburg and then to Fussen. We will stay in Pfronten (same place as last year). You can also pick up a very detailed atlas in Germany with every road, except maybe dirt roads. It was only $20 Euro at the grocers. I haven't found such a detailed one here in the States. <BR>I don't know where you are traveling from but I found a great charter flight arranged by Lufthansa from Fla through a travel agent for half the price of US airlines. (Don't look at thier web site, it is outrageous.) We are flying into Munich, out of Frankfurt. Friends that used it last year said it was great.<BR>Regardless of what you do, you can't help but have a great time. Don't worry about seeing everything this time anyway. I can guarentee you will be back! We all have :)<BR>Have fun!!<BR>Fran<BR>

David, I did a similar trip that you're planning and wanted to share a few thoughts.<BR><BR>If you're going to Nurnberg, I would suggest going to Regensburg instead of Rothenburg. I know I'm going against the flow here, but Regensburg is also a preserved medieval town without the touristy hype and crush of people. I thought Rothenburg was too much like Disneyland. (To me, it's like going to Jackson Hole, Wyoming. I loved it 30 years ago, but can no longer stand the faux hollywood cowboy stuff.)<BR><BR>Warzburg would be a good place to stay the first night and shake-off your jet lag. <BR><BR>I also would recommend staying in Munich longer. Maybe cut out a night in Salzburg. You can see the castles as a day trip from Munich. Garmisch would also make a good day trip, as would Chimesea (My spelling I know is..) Anyway, good luck. (I loved Vienna)

Dear folks,<BR><BR>Thanks so much to all those who've posted a response to my query. The input has been most informative. I was struck by one comment in particular, having to do with Rothenburg. Is it over-the-top, geared mainly to the tourist dollar (or Euro)? Regensburg does seem enticing. Plus, my wife and I generally don't go for places that are excessively tourist-oriented. <BR><BR>Needless to say, I've got a wide range of options, and I'd like to come up with a relatively firm location itinerary before departing next summer.<BR>Once again, thanks!

Rothenburg is impressive as a walled town, probably as heavily reconstructed as Carcassonne. Its main business is tourism, and is heavily oriented in that direction. Arrive there in the late afternoon, spend the night and leave by noon the next day, and you will probably have convered the essential.

Rothenburg is tourism run amok - virtually the only viable reason for its existence. The parking lot is jammed with tour buses. English is the lingua franca. K&auml;the Wohlfahrt is omnipresent. It epitomizes the &quot;beaten path&quot;, in my book. I've been there three times hoping to find it different the next. The place makes me squirm, really. Running down Rothenburg on this board usually provokes near-angry responses in opposition - so I'm aware that others strongly disagree with me and I'm probably risking e-mail bombs with my comments - but I suspect that most of these others haven't looked around much elsewhere. I think there are some good alternatives that are less Disneyesque - Weissenburg, an old walled town southeast of Rothenburg between Nuremberg and Munich, for one - and will provide you with an interesting experience and a sense of exploration. The towns of Pappenheim and Eichstaett, both near Weissenburg, are interesting, scenic places with some history as well. So go to Rothenburg for a night, but I suggest that you have a look around elsewhere between Rothenburg and Munich as well.

David,<BR><BR>Just some of my own thoughts about the Rothenberg thing and all of the tourists you will run into while visiting.<BR><BR>I would imagine that there mustn't be many bigger tourist destinations in Germany than Rothenberg. I really think that every first timer goes to Rothenberg.<BR><BR>I have been to Germany and Austria nearly 30 times and I remember going in 1969, my 3rd trip to germany. I haven't been back since. As others have written, there are plenty of other towns that offer as much as Rothenberg.<BR><BR>However, if you are planning to at least see the town, then why not consider staying outside of Rothenberg.<BR><BR>You haven't mentioned if you are into drinking German beer. If you are into the brewery thing then why not consider staying an hour away from Rothenberg at the beginning of the Beer Street. This is a part of Germany that markets itself as the Bierstrasse. I have the literature and it looks like an excellent out of the way place to visit. It claims to have 7 breweries all within 40 kilometers of each other. There are dozens and dozens of guesthouses, B&amp;B's, and hotels for you to consider.<BR><BR>www.bierstrasse.com should get you to their webpage.<BR><BR>You mention that you want to be in parts of Germany and Austria where there aren't many tourists. This would be one of the places to look. You can easily get a train from Frankfurt or Munich to get to this part of Germany.<BR><BR>I have all of my relatives in Germany and when I mentioned this area to my cousins, they told me that they had never heard of this beer street.<BR><BR>Also, please keep in mind that even if you don't enjoy the drinking thing, you can still consider staying here as a base to get into Rothenberg. According to the train schedules, it is about an hour from the foot of the beer street to Rothenberg.<BR><BR>Happy travelling.<BR><BR>Mark

David,<BR>My husband and I did a similar trip last June. We started in Salzburg, stayed in an all inclusive hiking hotel in Bramberg for a week, then spent time in Innsbruck, bavaria and 1 night in Munich before flying home. I agree that Munich was very hot, crowded and disappointing after quaint villages and small towns. In reverse I may have felt otherwise. I loved Salzburg (3 days was just perfect) and using the wanderhotel as a base for a week was wonderful. All meals included, plenty of alpine hikes (easy walking available), free bike rental, lake swimming, massages, sauna, etc all included in one very, low price (www.wanderhotel.com). Innsbruck was good too but unless you are hiking you won't want more than 2 days there - it's small. We stayed in another very nice place 1 mile from Neuschwanstein castle in Bavaria that was cheap and fabulous. Check out my website (www.angelfire.com/va/copp) for photos from the trip and email me if you want more information. The wander hotel was about $700 for 2 people for 7 days all meals included. A great bargain.