I think weather in all Swiss Alps is very variable in every month - if going to higher climes/climbs be prepared for cool -layering is always nice - sun comes out weather heats up -pops back under - cool.

StMoritz has an average high of just 61 F:

http://www.holiday-weather.com/st_mo...erages/august/

I don't think we should hijack this thread with a discussion on costs but just google it. There is one site that compares costs to visit various countries and it puts Switzerland at €167 vs Italy at €121 average cost per day. (Put them both in euro for comparison sake). But there are many, many places that do comparison of cost of living, cost of traveling, etc. and virtually all of them have Switzerland as very expensive compared to the rest of Europe (Scandinavian countries are also very high). So it's just NOT an opinion.

And you have to consider 'like' things. Your example was for a week in April which is low season for Switzerland.

None of this means that it is impossible to visit Switzerland on a budget - but it WILL be harder than a similar trip to Italy.

sbb.ch/en has timetables for transport in Switzerland. The various regions and towns of Switzerland generally have websites.

No need to take hiking boots for many walks. We've managed fine with sturdy runners in the past. You don't need to take heavy clothes, just layer things if needed (I always take a light weight raincoat anyway). Modest sized backpacks would work fine but if you decide that's not suitable, then a very small rolling case (that you can easily pick up and carry) plus a day pack can work well too.

Siena is a good alternative to Florence but perhaps also consider Bergamo.

<<What do you recommend for the best information on the Engadine?

Not a what, but a who - Ingo! And perhaps these sites:

http://www.myswissalps.com/lowerengadine

https://www.insightguides.com/destin...adine/overview

<<Where is the lower Engadine? How do we get to these beautiful places without a car? Guarda looks wonderful.>>

You can get to the Engadine (both Upper and Lower) via train (and in a few instances like Guarda, Vna, Sils and Ftan, a combination of train and short bus ride).

We've visited the Engadine many times (we prefer the Lower Engadine over the Upper). We always travel by train, and have stayed in Scuol on our past three visits to the Engadine.

You might get some ideas for both the Upper and Lower Engadine from my trip reports:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...e-170136-2.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...r-oberland.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...witzerland.cfm

Yes melnq8 and Ingo are absolute experts on the Engadine, a part of Switzeland so remote from central Switzerland that few go there - even though in my brief forays it is just as awesome as other Alpine areas in its own way.

And the Bernina Express Railway is to me the most dramatically scenic in Europe -spend a whole day getting on and off the train - most just pass thru without doing so and just get fleeting glimpses of the glaciers, etc you can even walk to from some stations.

Elnap29, I'm not trying to 'disparage' anyone personally. What I am disparaging is the BELIEF voiced over and over again that Switzerland MUST be expensive. That's simply not true as I have shown.

Isabel, you cannot bring cost of living comparisons into this, we aren't talking about living there, only visiting there. As for average prices of one vs. another, I do not disagree. On average Switzerland is no doubt higher. However for anyone to write, 'Switzerland is expensive' when someone asks about visiting there, IMPLIES that you cannot do it on whatever budget you happen to have. It discourages people from even trying. That's what I object to. Average prices do not mean anything. If it is an average, then there is a lower end as well as a higher end. So if there is a lower end, how does 'average prices' turn into, 'very expensive to visit'?

It is a very different thing to write, 'Switzerland requires a bit more research if you want to travel on a lower budget' vs. writing, 'Switzerland is very expensive.' The first tells you it is doable and the second suggests it isn't doable. Please take a look at what people write and what it is they actually imply. They don't tend to imply it is doable.

All that matters is whether people are being told they can afford to visit on a budget they say they have.

PalenQ, you wrote, "a part of Switzeland so remote from central Switzerland that few go there". The funny thing is that the exact opposite is the truth. What might make some sense is to say fewer American tourists go there but in fact, the Graubunden has the highest number of tourists of all regions except Zurich. Take a look at page 20 on this link: http://www.swisstourfed.ch/files/inf...iZ_2014_en.pdf

What you will see is the difference in how many Swiss tourists go there vs. say the Bernese Oberland. Almost twice as many. That might provide some food for thought for some people.

I adored the Engadine!

Many of the hikes there – including all the ones I took – are extremely gently, with at most some gentle slopes and no scary precipices. I basically walked ACROSS mountains, not up or down them. :-) I used Gortex-lined walking shoes and found them completely adequate for the hikes I took. I’m sure there are more challenging options for those who seek them, and OMG, what a scary experience you had!

A few days in the Engadine won't provide the same opportunities for art as you would have in a city, but it isn't "all" about hiking and eating. There are some interesting small local museums, some stunning church frescoes, etc.

The local language is Romansch, but no one will expect you to speak it. All of the people I encountered in the area spoke excellent English (and German and...). I visited the area without a car – check the sbb website for all the transportation information you could possibly want!

A regular rollarboard shouldn’t be a problem – or at least, it wasn’t for me! And many hotels in the area provide small backpacks for day-trips.

IME, few guidebooks cover the Engadine well. As I recall, the Michelin Green Guide did a bit better than the rest, but it's pretty scanty. As Melnq8 notes, Ingo is a true expert; he is an incredible resource who is very generous with his knowledge of the area. And Melnq8’s trip reports should be a good resource for you. Too, you might look at the planning threads for Melnq8’s trips, and for mine, too – there’s an awesome array of information in them! Here are mine:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...to-25-days.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...etter-plan.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...witzerland.cfm
(I gave you the link to my trip report above.)

Hope that helps!

I want to go to the Engadin but I'm going to Austria in August and Sept. instead because of perceived difference in costs.

But if you go to Luzern and have time for a day trip, don't miss Mt. Pilatus!

Val de Gardena (Ortisei) also gives you access to beautiful mountains as well, for probably less than it would cost in Switzerland.

But Switzerland is beautiful too.

The only other thing about how to split time between Switzerland and Italy would be that if you want to increase the odds of sunny weather, definitely allocate time in Venice and points south of it, away from the mountains. The Alps seem to get a lot of rain in the summer, at least some parts of it.

Hi again,

Our Fodors regular Melnq8 has given you some good sites to get started with your research -- and I have you two sites waaay up above on my first post:

https://www.pontresina.ch/en/

(This website uses google translate to translate German to English, so you have to click on "Sprache" and then select "English" for the translation):
http://www.engadin.com/ferienorte/en...scuol/?S=1&R=2

I hope you have enough now to get started.

I live in a mountain town, and I can confirm what others say here -- you cannot predict the weather, and you have to be prepared for everything, and the best way is to dress in layers. You can expect temps from 40 - 90 deg F. I usually wear a t-shirt next to my skin (one that can be washed & dried overnight if necessary), then add a lightweight sweater, then have a cardigan and a raincoat with zip-out liner. You'll only need to pack a few sweaters and one cardigan; no one will notice what you wear from day to day. On cold mornings, you can wear everything, but on warm afternoons after walking for a few hours, you can strip down to the t-shirt.

Have fun!

s

Do you like thermal water? We love it, and varenna is about 2 hours from Bormio, I taly.... where we found Hotel Bagni Vecchi to be absolutely wonderful. Natural thermal waters with views of the gorgeous snow-covered mountains... hiking trails... a fancy sister hotel you can visit.... and with just delicious meals included.

A real treat in every way. A great adventure if it's your thing. (we didn't have a car but took a bus to the nearby town and then they picked us up in a Hotel car.)

If thermal baths are of interest, Scuol -- in the lower Engadine -- would be worth considering.

BTW, while Ingo is our undisputed expert on the Engadine, you will likely find that several Fodorites have valuable information about the area. For example, I received extremely helpful information on the area from neckervd, greuzi, and others (in addition to Ingo, Melinq8, and swandav).

I really appreciate all suggestions. Researching every single one. Thank you!

Scrb11, did you read the example I gave above of costs? Choosing Austria over Switzerland because of a 'perceived difference in cost' makes no sense to me whatsoever. I chose one place over another because the PLACE appeals to me more than the other. I can visit either on the SAME budget.

There are some third world countries in the world where there is a huge difference in costs and someone with a very limited budget may be able to afford a third world country but not a first world country. However Austria is not a third world country. If you can afford Austria, you can afford Switzerland and there is no reason to let PERCEIVED cost make a decision for you as to which to visit.

Swandav2000, consider what is available in the 21st century when it comes to hiking clothing. You wrote, "You can expect temps from 40 - 90 deg F. I usually wear a t-shirt next to my skin (one that can be washed & dried overnight if necessary), then add a lightweight sweater, then have a cardigan and a raincoat with zip-out liner. You'll only need to pack a few sweaters and one cardigan;"

Sweaters and cardigans? Sweaters of any kind are both bulky and heavy. So are the type of rain jackets that come with zip-out liners. Exactly what a traveller or hiker wants to avoid.

I agree that temperatures can vary depending on time of day and altitude but sweaters aren't the answer. Layering is of course the answer but it's also a question of packing weight and bulk, since when shedding layers, you have to CARRY what you shed.

A base layer of either a merino wool (if you can afford it) or synthetic wicking t-shirt (never cotton) comes first. Then a long sleeve shirt. Again either synthetic or a wool/synthetic blend in cooler months like late September. Next comes either a lightweight down vest/jacket and finally a lightweight rain jacket. Note: They all say 'lightweight' when you are doing a Google search. The secret is to add the keyword 'packable' to the search. That gets you the truly lightweight jackets and vests.

Last September when hiking in the Davos-Klosters area every day for 10 days, that combination was MORE than I ever needed. I wore all the layers only once. That combination is good for me down to just above freezing. In fact, I use a down vest, not a jacket and cut the weight and bulk of the sleeves by doing so.

Now take a look at the bulk and weight of a lightweight packable rain jacket and down jacket combination and you will find that they are far less than a sweater and a rainjacket with a zip-in lining.

Here's a typical rainjacket with zip in lining.
https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/wo...tum-triclimate It weighs 38.8 ozs by itself!

Change that to a lightweight packable rain jacket and lightweight packable down jacket and you can drop that weight to as little as 14 ozs.! It will also drop the bulk (space requirement) equally as dramatically.

http://snarkynomad.com/5-of-the-best...-rain-jackets/

https://welltraveledmile.com/5-best-...ts-for-travel/

Look at the picture of the packable rainjacket in the guy's hand on the snarkynomad link. The down jacket will compress into a similar size. Compare it to the space the rainjacket with zip-in lining will take. And you are suggesting someone also carry/wear a sweater and cardigan as well vs. a simple shirt.

You are suggesting adding to my pack as the day warms up, a sweater, cardigan and jacket with lining. That has to be at LEAST 4 lbs. more than with my combination, that you have added to my back. You will be no warmer and no drier than I will but you'll carry more bulk and weight without any benefit for doing so. Does that make sense to you?

Elnap29, you mentioned considering a travelpack vs. a suitcase. Have a look at the Osprey Farpoint 40. It and it's sister Osprey Porter 46 are two of the most popular travelpacks with long term, round the world, travellers. The Farpoint has a better suspension system for hiking vs. the Porter which is obviously slightly larger. Both weigh around 3lbs. empty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrStm79x6Xo

Regarding carrying hiking boots. The days of hiking boots are pretty much gone. Nowadays, you can get lightweight hiking shoes that are all you are ever likely to need.

The difference besides bulk when packing is basically 2lbs./pair vs. 4-5 lbs. for boots. Did you know that 1 lb. on your feet equals 5 lbs. on your back?

http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/o...s-off-back.htm

So yeah, leave the hiking boots at home but also leave your running shoes at home and just take a pair of hiking shoes. Theya are what my wife and I wear all day in city or hiking. The only other shoes my wife carries is a pair for dinner wear.

http://www.switchbacktravel.com/best...t-hiking-shoes

I am 71 elnap29 and my wife is (mumble). I have been backpacking and hiking in the wilderness for 50 years. As I get older, I do have to concede I cannot do what I used to do. But I have also learned that I can do a lot of what I used to do by packing smarter and taking advantage of the advances in clothing and gear that have occurred over the last 50 years.

To me the Austrian Alps in general pale in comparison to the best of the Swiss Alps - I agree with dog - don't use cost as a factor -for one thing Austria is expensive too-just not as much.

Dogeared, apparently your experience is quite limited.

I have an entire wardrobe of sweaters of every weight and thickness (I live in Germany, and they ALL get a lot of wear). The best, of course, are cashmere, which are thinner than cotton sweaters and actually about as thin as a cotton shirt. But, yes Merino wool is also a good choice, as it is thin, light, warm, and washable. I have several of those, and they go travelling with me. But my cotton sweaters are also good, and thin. I normally bring along maybe 3-4 of these sweaters for a 2-week trip (and wear one). Because my bottom layer gets changed daily, the sweaters don't get stinky.

I stand by cotton t-shirts, or cotton w/lycra. I'm afraid I've found that the ultra-thin man-made fabrics tend to stink up too fast and don't get clean easily.

I do find that I shed layers during the day, and thankfully I shop and pack better than you list here. Normally, I'd say, I have to stuff maybe 1-2 lbs into my day pack. And I normally do not have to wear all the stuff I list on a day -- if it's really cold, it would be the raincoat w/liner.

Finally, Dog, I really enjoy seeing alternate and varied and disparate comments, but I hope you can keep a civil tongue. I am just 8 years younger than you, and I do remember when people who disagreed did so with grace. Oh, and, as I mentioned, I live in Germany, and I see sports stores (Conrad's and Wolfskin) with 21st Century gear all the time. Reminds me . . . I have so much new stuff, I need to get rid of some of the older ...

s

If you want to wear sweaters and cotton and carry a heavy rain jacket with a zip-in lining, that's entirely up to you swandav2000. I'm not suggesting that YOU have to change anything.

What I'm saying is that in my opinion the OP should look for more up to date lighter weight and less bulky clothing. You're free to suggest to the OP, going with more weight and bulk. The OP is free to choose which makes more sense to her.

As for my experience being 'limited', what are you referring to? My experience of hiking and backpacking or my experience of buying sweaters?

Have you heard the expression in hiking/backpacking circles that 'cotton kills'? It is not even debatable that cotton is a no no. I don't just go on a 2 hour Sunday afternoon walk on a path swandav2000. I do go on day hikes but my experience is also based on 100s of multi-day wilderness backpacking trips off-trail with a map and compass. I have not worn anything cotton when hiking for at least 20 years now.
http://sectionhiker.com/why-does-cotton-kill/

Watch the video on this link:
https://skyaboveus.com/climbing-hiki...-Will-Kill-You

The video is showing cotton jeans vs. synthetic hiking pants but the principles are the same for anything cotton. The jeans test does make a dramatic show though.

Nowadays, technical hiking clothing exists which provides a higher levels of sun protection, wicks sweat away from your body, retain less odor, block wind, keeps you warmer and there are even some that keep you cooler!

Columbia now have a product called Omni-Freeze Zero which actually uses your sweat to keep you cooler in hot weather.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXbcmygimLE

Hiking gear is like anything else, newer and better products are developed over time. You can use outdated technology or you can keep up with the latest and best. It's your choice.

Meals are more expensive in Switzerland too and I think the dollar to Swiss Franc exchange rate isn't as advantageous as the dollar to Euro exchange rate.

I am just 8 years younger than you, and I do remember when people who disagreed did so with grace.>

I've been upbraided by swan not so gracious IMO several times about Wengen and Grindelwald and Interlaken- but most of the time I deserved it. But I agree with swan (who I really respect) - some folks thrive on criticizing others in a very uncivil(e) way. But this has been a constant problem with a handful of Fodorgarchs (not including dog in this... yet) who love to set naive posters straight in a IMO rude way and others pile on -many have left in tears. We should especially be nice and cuddly to new posters with limited travel experience.

The problem I find PalenQ is that my expectations are that people should be able to ask intelligent questions and post intelligent responses. I keep forgetting the average IQ is only 100.

I also find that there are far too many people who think (incorrectly) that being 'politically correct' means you can't actually say anything that might offend anyone for any reason that person can think of.

If someone gets something wrong that is factually provable to be wrong for example, saying it's wrong suddenly means you are a bad guy. I am happy to help educate anyone as to the facts but I see no reason to spend my time trying to find a way to do so that someone will find 'graceful'.

My response to anyone who thinks I should is, get over yourself and learn to listen to those who know more than you do on a given subject. You don't have to like the person to accept the facts.

And please PalenQ, don't say I should be 'nice and cuddly'. If someone wants that, tell them to go to their Mother for it. I'm just here to tell it like it IS.