Ingo - now my head is spinning - I looked up some of your suggestions - Wernigerode looks gorgeous. Would Munich or Frankfurt make the better arrival airport for the Hartz Mountains?

Either would be fine, since the new railroad between Munich and Berlin is open you can get in short time from Munich to Halle e.g. where you change to reginal train.

Okay, I'm back. Flights booked, arrive Zurich, depart Munich. Thinking 10 nights Switzerland (still working on where), plus 10 nights split between two areas in Austria and a night or two in Munich at the end of the trip. Maybe.

I've been reading about the Salzkammergut and I'm very intrigued (no, we've not been - how ever did that happen?). The Wolfgangseer Adventmarkt looks right up our alley, but I'm a bit confused on where to base ourselves for up to five nights - Storbl, St Gilen, St Wolfgang? Or elsewhere? Any thoughts?

We'll be traveling by train and/or bus (I've yet to delve into the Austrian transport system, that's on my to do list).

Lots of people here seem to like St. GIlgen but I prefer to stay in St. Wolfgang. I was satisfied with a ferry ride over to St. GIlgen to spend a day. Loved St. Wolfgang!

Just my €0,02. I think 5 nights in the Salzkammergut is fine, as long as you plan several day trips. St. Wolfgang is the largest of the three towns and is where we prefer to base; when the day trippers depart the town seems magical at night. St. Gilgen is charming, too, but can be a little too quiet when the sidewalks roll up. Strobl doesn't receive any through traffic so it can feel rather isolated.

Hi again,

Oddly, the DB doesn't have any schedules to St Gilgen or St Wolfgang -- probably because they don't have a train station. So I looked up the connections at oebb.at, using Seefeld/Tyrol as your departure. The trip to Sankt Gilgen takes about 3h44 or 3h45, with 2 changes (Innsbruck & Salzburg), and the last connection is the bus into Sankt Gilgen. The trip to Sankt Wolfgang (and again I was surprised to learn this) takes 4h20 or 4h44, with 3 changes (Innsbruck, Salzburg, & Strobl), using 2 trains and 2 busses. So it seems that Sankt Gilgen might be better located for getting around the lake.

Have to say that I never considered Strobl as a base. I do remember cycing through it, or more accurately, TO it, and was then pretty tired and not much interested in sight-seeing. It has a population of around 3,500 according to google.

If it were me trying to decide where to base, I guess I would do the usual -- compare the google images of all 3 and see which one drew me more, and then use google maps to hunt for hotels by location (I can usually find hotels that are super charming or etc). I should add that, during my stay at Sankt Gilgen, I fell in love with Sankt Wolfgang, as it seemed to have more stuff to do and more corners to explore. But now based on the population figures and the remoteness of the town, I think that may have been a false impression.

Anyway, have fun!

s

fourfortravel -- see my note above about the relative sizes of Sankt Gilgen & Sankt Wolfgang:

"Saint Gilgen has a population around 3,600, and Saint Wolfgang has a population around 2,800 -- which doesn't seem at all right to me because Saint Wolfgang has more hotels, restaurants, and shops, and does seem bigger."

I do feel better knowing that I'm in good company, thinking that Sankt Wolfgang is bigger!!

s

Hi Melnq8

Have you seen the website myswissalps.com? It has a forum and I’ve found it very useful for helping me plan our upcoming trip to Switzerland.

Ditto what fourfortravel posted!

swandav, interesting. We have stayed in both St. Gilgen and St. Wolfgang and found the latter to be much livelier in the evening, even in the absence of a special event like the Adventmarkt. All things considered, though I will still look first to St. Wolfgang whenever we seek a getaway along Wolfgangsee. :)

I appreciate the great responses! jacooper - I'm familiar with the site, but not the forum; I'll look into it, thank you!

Thanks for the heads up on the transport issues Swandav - I've not yet worked out an itinerary; the logistics will determine the order in which we do things, although we know Switzerland will come first.

I've done a wee bit of research and it seems that the easiest way to get to St Wolfgang might be from Salzburg via Bus 150 to Bad Ischl. I understand we'd need to change to a different bus in Strobl - looks like a 90 minute journey.

I stayed a couple of nights in St. Wolfgang last August.

Beautiful, especially the one day the sun was out. Other day was overcast.

But there was some kind of car club event that took over the town. People in sports cars clogging up those streets.

So be careful about popularity.

fourfortravel -- I understand; after my visit staying in St Gilgen but seeing St Wolfgang, I like the latter more too!

s

Point taken, thanks scrb11.

Bad Ischl is a short day trip from any Lake District base - OK town but found some Emperor's hunting lodge there really interesting - if day tripping or going to Hallstatt best way is by bus to Bad Ischl then train to Hallstatt. Halstatt makes a great few days for forys into high Alps nearby and Salt Mine tours. Gorgeous setting.

Are some of these towns open or accessible in the winter?

As for Switzerland, I would stay in Zurich for a night or two. It's a wonderful walkable city that has much to offer. They have a large Christmas market.

St. Gallen (nice small city) and Appenzell (true Swiss village) are about 1 hour from ZRH airport by car/train, gets you close to points east as you head into Austria.

I would recommend staying in Appenzell for a few days since you like villages, you will not be disappointed. If you are interested, snow shoeing is popular and you can rent shoes. There are many mountain berghaus to visit for great food and wonderful winter wonderland views. I would recommend the winter hike to Hoher Hirshberg - many locals hike up and sled down. Go on the cable car to Ebenalp berghaus - you can ski at Ebenalp but a small ski area. The cable cars to the higher Hoher Kasten and Santis (highest peak in the Alpstein) will amaze you with views of the Rhine River valley, the mountains of Switzerland, Austria & Germany. Please note the weather as if it is too windy at the top, the cable cars may not be running so check before you go. If the weather is iffy, you can visit the Appenzell cheese factory in Stein, the Appenzell museums, the Appenzell Brewery (appenzellerbier.ch) or tour Appenzeller Alpenbitter and of course shop the Mainstrasse area downtown. Visit Holidays, excursions and hiking in the Appenzell : Appenzellerland Tourismus for loads of winter information in the area. The tourist office is open most days, they speak English and can guide you to your perfect trip!

In Zurich and Appenzell/St Gallen try true Swiss Raclette, rosti and biber.

One note, I would recommend doing the bulk of your skiing in Austria is much cheaper than Switzerland.

https://saentisbahn.ch/en/ - info on Santis
Drehrestaurant Hoher Kasten,Brülisau - info on Hoher Kasten
https://www.ebenalp.ch/en/welcome - info on Ebenalp
https://www.hoherhirschberg.ch/ - info on Hoher Hirschberg

scrb11 -

I've yet to find a town that closes in winter:)

Thanks Lynne - we were talked out of Appenzell last winter when I posed a similar question. Might be time to give it a go though.

Not planning to ski.

For something completely different, have you ever been to Spain? Andalucia is incredible, and wouldn’t be too hot in December. We went to Spain in early March one year and it was 26 degrees in Seville.

The Moorish achitecture in Seville, Granada and Cordoba is amazing. I also loved Salamanca, Toledo and Segovia, but they would probably be pretty cold in December.

I did an Andalusian trip in late January, early Feb. It wasn't my first time so it was okay. Seville may have been warm once or twice.

Granada was freezing but the snow in the mountains around the Alhambra looked beautiful.

Now I'm kind of thinking about a trip in January to somewhere in the Alps. Haven't skied in a long time but I'm currently on a trip to Switzerland and while it's beautiful here, I think some of the mountains look better with snow.

There's been a fair amount of rain during this trip but even on sunny days, there's always a haze, and fog in the morning. Lot of moisture in the air this August in Switzerland, it seems.

You can get ski passes for no more than 50-60 Euro a day. That's cheaper than the per-day rate in CA, though I don't know if they offer better rates if you ski for 4 days or more.