Steve

Two couples will spend 3 weeks this spring (May time frame) flying into Madrid then starting the next morning driving the Rick Steve's route: Segovia, Salamanca, Coimbra, Lisbon, Salema, Sevilla, Arcos, Tarifa, maybe Gilbratar and Morocco for a day, Nerja, Granada, Toledo ending in Madrid. We'd drop off the car then but spend 3 nights in Madrid giving us two full days to see the city before flying home on day 22. We'd like to stay at some Paradors but also want the flexibility to be nomadic and stay where we land without reservations. Suggestions welcomed on change of intinerary, hotel in Madrid, "must stay" paradors, rental car companies. Which places to stay for more than one night and keep the daily driving distances reasonable. Use trains for any segments? And any other wisdom from the readers. This is my first post. Thanks in advance!

Paula

One place that's in Rick Steve's that I'd highly recommend is the Hostal del Cardenal in Toledo. Some of his recommendations (Europa in Madrid and Continental in Barcelona) I wouldn't stay at again, though other people in Fodors have liked them.<BR><BR>Of the places you mentioned, I liked Sevilla the best (plan on going back soon) and would recommend you "get lost" in the Barrio de Santa Cruz, see the Alcazar, cathedral, and Plaza de Espana.<BR><BR>Also, of the "white villages", I really liked Ronda, though I'll be curious how you like Arcos.<BR><BR>From what I've heard, there really isn't much in Gilbratar and IMO Morocco isn't really worth it unless you can get more inland.<BR><BR>I'd strongly recommend not renting a car from Hertz (I hear AutoEurope is good and we've had good luck with Avis in the past).<BR><BR>Get tickets in advance on the Internet for Alhambra--otherwise you may not be able to get in.<BR><BR>If you go to Nerja, make sure you see the caves--they were incredible.<BR><BR>I don't know how long you plan on being in Toledo, but I liked it more than Madrid, though I highly recommend the Prado and Sofia.<BR><BR>Hope this helps--I'm sure you'll get lots of good advise in Fodors. Have a great trip.

Paula

P.S. I forgot to add--don't miss the flameco show at Los Gallos in Sevilla!

kit

Hi Steve,<BR>I'm not sure exactly how the Rick Steves tour plays out, but I've been to several of the places mentioned. I'm particularly partial to Salamanca. Definitely don't miss the tour of the Old and new cathedral (they are one) and the church (cathedral? forgive me, the memory wanes) of St. Esteben. Spectacular...<BR><BR>We rented from Avis and it went off without a hitch. There is a high-spedd train between Madrid and Sevilla (the AVE? again -- memory) that you may wish to take as yourt trip winds down. The driving isn't necessarily beautiful, though easy.

Julie

We gave up on Arcos after spending about a half hour looking for a parking spot but liked Ronda very much including the (albeit modern) paradore there. Loved Salamanca, also Sevilla. Returning to the latter for the 3rd time in November. Though Coimbra is interesting, we really liked the Bucaco forest and the Palace hotel there and suggest it instead. It was the hunting palace of the kings of Portugal and became a hotel when they were deposed. It has fabulous architecture and at about $200 or so per night is the overnight stay of a lifetime. If this is to be your Spain trip, you really should try to include Barcelona. it's a fabulous city and the Guadi architecture is not to be missed. On the other hand, that might become another, separate trip.

Steve

Paula, Kit & Julie - Thanks so much for your comments. This is a first trip to Spain so we chose to go west from Madrid and see Portugal too. (That leaves Barcelona for another time - maybe starting from there, through the south of France and on to the Italian Lake country. ) The interest in Morocco is the novelty of being able to say we set foot in Africa - not likely to happen again anytime soon. Between Coimbra and Lisbon, the Steve's guide also lists Batalma, Mazare and Obidos. What cities are worth staying in more than one night (other than Madrid)? My guesses at this point are Salmanca, Lisbon, Sevilla and Granada. Did you leave your rental cars open and empty when parked as recommended? All of the suggestions on places to see are really appreciated. Thanks!!

Julie

We didn't do well between Lisbon and Coimbra, stayed in Figueria de Foz on the ocean. it's a real tourist city and we were there after the season. I recommend against it. We went to Batalha and the cathedral/cloisters there were terrific but didn't stay overnight. The place we didn't go that's supposed to be swell is Nazare. Perhaps others have experience there they can share with you. If overnights are at a premium, consider not staying in Granada. See the alhambra and move on, perhaps to Ronda, Cordoba or Sevilla. Navigating in the old city of Granada is nearly impossible.

Steve

Thanks for the tips Julie.<BR><BR>I'm concerned about leaving the car with all of our luggage in it at stops as we sightsee. It's always nice to check into a hotel, unload and then go exploring. But many stops are just along the way so the car contents are vulnerable. How cautious should we be?

RC

One thing to keep in mind is that Rick Steves is highly opinionated--and that you should get a second opinion. Case in point: he trashed both the city of Cordoba and its absolutely magnificent Mezquita--referring to it as worthy only of being the basement of a monument. If you are at all interested in the history of Andalucia and Spain, that is a shockingly ignorant comment to make. You should make time for at least a half-day in Cordoba and ignore what he has to say about the city.<BR><BR>Also, Gibraltar is an interesting side trip. Remember though that it is part of the empire, and is not "Spanish."

Jim LaGrone

Why would you not recommend renting a car from Hertz?

Cooter

For rental cars in Spain, I've found that AutoEurope offers the best rates. Both times I've done it, I've ended up with Avis. Last time got upgraded three classes at no charge (Ended up with a Renault Laguna, which is very big for Spain, being a diesel it was still good on gas). I would be mindful of how much trunk space you will need.<BR><BR>Sounds like a great trip. <BR><BR>I am not crazy about Toledo, but agree that it is worth seeing once.

Sandra

Dear Steve,<BR><BR>A lot of Fodorites who have been to Spain seem to have enjoyed the Best Western Carlos V in Madrid. I have never stayed there but have walked past it and it looks very cozy. I stayed at a nearby hotel called Hotel Preciados--a surprisingly affordable 4-star right in the center of Madrid. I believe their website is www.preciadoshotel.com. I highly recommend it. I have stayed at Hotel Velazquez before and it was quite nice in an upscale part of town but a little removed from the action, nightlife, and historic sites for a first time visitor to Madrid. The Crown Plaza in Gran Via is okay too. So far, the Preciados is a far better value in my opinion, if you are looking for a 4-star. The Ritz is absolutely magnficent, and a minutes walk from the major museums (Prado, Reina Sofia, Thyssen) but a little extravagant in price. At any rate, I do recommend that you stay in the center of town, near Plaza Mayor, Gran Via, Preciados, Callao, Plaza Espana, or Paseo del Prado, Banco Espana, or Cibeles--especially if this is your first time in Madrid.

Paula

Steve,<BR>I have found more out about Bancotel.com and it looks like a really good way to get some get deals on hotels.<BR><BR>Jim,<BR>I don't want to go into this again--it got really ugly--but if you really want to know, do a topic research and put in "Hertz" and the thread is there.<BR><BR>

figaro

We visited Spain (Andalusia) for two weeks last summer. You're going to have a blast. <BR><BR>We did go to Gibraltar and had a great time. It was a full day. Here's a hint:<BR><BR>Park your car in Spain and walk to the border(with your passport in hand).<BR><BR>There were taxis available for hire right at the entrance. For 14 pounds UK each we had a 2 hour tour of the island, from bottom to top and down again, including a lot of stops along the way where our taxi driver gave us lots of great information and even had food with them to feed the monkeys. The cost included admission to St. Michael's cave and the great Siege tunnels. The taxis waited for us for as long as we wished to stay there. If we had not taken this "taxi tour" we would have missed so much of the island, would never have receives so much information about the island's history, etc, and we would never have been able to drive on some of the (hair raising) roads at the top, which are only open to taxis and busses.

Steve

Hey RC, Jim, Cooter, Sandra, Paula, and Figaro. Thanks for all of the great additional responses. The people at http://www.okspain.org/ seem very helpful. They offered to work an itinerary and make bookings. I called to check on Paradors and found out that they can arrange everything including hotels in Portugal. Anyone have any experience with these folks?