Student with no visa: Will I be denied re-entry into Germany???
 

I know already what I have done wrong: It is April and I've been studying on exchange in Germany since September, too lazy to get a "residence permit" from my city hall. I didn't know at the time the significance of this permit but I knew I was just another student procrastinating it. Ok. I got sick recently and had to fly home to the USA, via a flight out of Paris--I was stamped here but not stopped.

I will fly into the Frankfurt airport on Sunday. Realizing the gravity of the situation and being told the importance of a visa I have already been to my embassy and appealed for a rushed visa--unfortunately it will probably take about 3 weeks, but I can't wait that long to return to the Schengen area. Classes start Tuesday.

Along with me on my flight back to Germany I will bring a note stating a planned appointment to get the visa the next day with the city hall, a hospital note, a receipt of my visa application, as well as the numbers of German advisors who could come in to the airport and speak for me.

So will I be barred from entering? Sent immediately back on a flight to the USA? Fined hundreds of euros and banned from entering Schengen for a few years? If these are likely events in the strict border control of Germany, even if I cry and beg and make a fuss, then would it be better to try to enter from a less-strict country, like say, Italy or Spain or France? Should I wait the 3-4 weeks until I get the visa?

What do you all think???! Very nervous. Just want to get back into Germany to finish school. It would be devestating to me to be sent back. Any advice would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you.

You entered Schengen on the 90 days in 180 days exemption.

You have stayed more than 90 days in 180 days in Schengen.

The only question is why your educational establishment didn't check your entitlement to be in Schengen in the first place.

Knowing the German soul (because I'm German myself) I can assure you that "crying, begging and making a fuss" will NOT get you ANYWHERE but rather annoy everyone and make them want to get rid of you. It's better to stay calm and explain your cause, why it is particular and different, that you are aware of the problem and what you did (like, application is already on the way - carry documentation to prove that) and intend to do to settle it.

Another big question is: Did you enter Germany with a student visa, or did you have only tourist status although you enrolled at university and happily studued? In the latter case you'd have been illegal from the beginning (hard to imagine that the university would have accepted this, though).

I disagee this was the responsibility of the school, but have you contacted the school to ask their advice? It is likely you are not the first student with this problem.

I would not multiply your problems by trying to enter through another country. On any given day, border control is just as strict as Germany, and you have no business being there, while you do have business in Germany.

It is of course not the responsibility of the school to organize the visa matter. But usually, at least that's what it was in my times, they require proof that all visa etc. issues are settled before they admit and enroll a foreign student.

For Germany, a US student doesn't require a visa in advance but can enter as visitor, and then apply for residence permit (Aufenthaltstitel) at the local foreigners' office (Ausländeramt). It's this latter step the OP failed to take. Alternatively, she could apply for a study visa (type D) at the German embassy/consulate in US before arriving.
Now, she has overstayed her Schengen limit by 3 to 4 months, and she won't get another Schengen leave, as they will check the stamps in her passport (yes, German officials are thorough). So returning now visa-less is a bad move. The best way is to wait for her type D visa to be issued. Carrying multiple documents and pleading to be let in is unlikely to work, as stated, as German officials play strictly by the rule.

Under these circumstances this is indeed willingly asking for trouble. And probably not favourable to the running visa application process either.

The airline may not even allow you to board the plane in the US, since they can clearly see you have over stayed you Schengen visa, and don't qualify for a new one yet. They will not be prepared to take the risk of having you refused entry and having to fly you home - they can get fined for it, as well as the hassle of getting you on the first available flight back to the US (which could be on the other side of the continent to where you want to be.

Miss a couple of days of study and wait for your visa.

You may be able to make arrangements with teachers and your fellow students to keep up with your coursework via e-mail or even Skype.

(Quokka my remarks were not addressed directly to you but to the first response. In Italy it is also the case that students do not necessarily need visas to enter, but they are expected to get residence permits within a month of arriving -- and schools do not check to see if students do this. They assume students will.)

You have so much invested in this year abroad you might as well try something. You could consider booking an Icelandair flight to Frankfurt and hope they don't give you trouble at the Schengen control in Keflavik. If they don't, you would then fly on to Frankfurt arriving stress free. If they refuse you entry you could ask to be sent on to the UK instead of being returned home.

I doubt that anyone at a ticket counter is going to do the math on your previous Schengen stamps and prohibit your fliying unless some words about overstaying are handwritten on the passport.

natalie_browning4,

Please ignore the irresponsible advice given above, since it could so drastically affect your future.

You deserve to known that tom_mn has a history of posting on Fodor's looking for advice about how to cheat various hotels for their accommodations rules, how to cheat if one gets caught violating trafffic laws while driving -- quite a history of that.

He has very little experience traveling in Europe. Read his past posts. The rest of us responding to your thread trying to help you live in Europe and deal with these issues all the time, and some of us have connections to teaching institutions.

It is extremely likely that, as a young person, your passport will be scrutinized in Frankfurt. I am quite far from being a student or looking like one, and I carry that "golden" American passoport, yet I have been asked to produce valid Italian residence documents every time I pass through a German airport -- and I am only passing through, not trying to enter.

You may want to return to Europe many times in your life. Please follow the advice to keep your record clean. Please ignore all the irresponsible advice from internet loudmouths -- and tom_mn has a long record of being a careless troll and provoking people just to be "cute."

The airline will check. And in tom_mn's scenario they will check in the US, not in Iceland.

Anecdotal evidence: a couple of years back I flew RDU-Miami-Rio. US citizens need a visa for Brazil, UK citizens do not. I am a dual national and I handed both passports to the check-in agent at RDU, explaining that I would not need a visa on the UK passport. The agent spent several minutes checking before she issued my boarding pass. I have also been stopped at check-in a couple of other times: once when I didn't have a visa for Australia (an oversight, corrected electronically at the check-in desk) and once for Nepal (the agent asked if I was doing visa-on-arrival, which I was).

I would not invest in airline tickets knowing it is unlikely I will be able to use them. I might try camping out at the embassy...

I could be completely wrong about the airline checking or not, I haven't had passports "studied" by check in staff. They look for expiration dates, pictures, and names, and visas where relevent and that's it. I think that they would pound away on a calculator to check lengths of stay is farfetched. I assume the OP is not withholding information like an "entry barred for 2 years" stamp or a verbal warning when leaving France that would end up in the computer.

A one way ticket on Icelandair could be as little as $450 and that's the only risk. It is not against the law, and requires no lying, to give it a try to attempt a flight to Frankfurt that way. Better than missing 3 weeks of class or skyping at 2 am I think. Although the camping out idea is not bad, either.

There is also the issue of what "city hall" would think, since if you are successful your presence in their country is illegal.

"as little as $450" - whether or not that is "little" is entirely a matter of the beholder's circumstances, and in this case the beholder is a student.

The experiences of a young, single person checking in and going through passport control may be so completely different from my experiences that mine are irrelevant in this case.

Without knowing what was paid for the year (I am assuming big money like $25,000 or more) and what is at stake for missing the 3 weeks, yes, $450 may or may not be a lot of money. But her post said she already has bought a ticket so my suggestion is not helpful. It is an unfortuate situation.

tom_nm,

You have ZERO IDEA of what you are talking about and the consequences to the traveler could be quite severe and more than you understand. For somebody whose fisrt instinct is to lie even when your work colleagues merely look cross-eyed at you about your trips, your blithe advice to tell people to attempt to illegally enter countries is plain irresponsible, not merely irrelevant.

in these days of governments keeping tabs on travellers at every possible opportunity, you do not want a failed attempt to enter Germany on an expired Schengen visa on your record. it will mean that every time you try to travel anywhere, you will get the full treatment. I would definitely wait to get it sorted out before you travel.

Isn't she already set to return this weekend according to her post?

Natalie: You may find these links reassuring for Sunday's arrival, but of course we have no idea who the posters are

http://www.maxi-pedia.com/forum/index.php?topic=865.0

http://www.maxi-pedia.com/forum/index.php?topic=828.0

The original 180 days are up, right? Doesn't that mean that there's no legacy/overlap from that September entry, and the Sunday entry would be independent, a time reset to zero, correct?

I think anyone with half a mind can figure out quickly that Sept-April exceeds 90 days, tom_mn.

I was working in Frankfurt for 2 months a few months after I graduated, they studied my passport thoroughly when I left, and VERY thoroughly when I was using FRA as a connection point a couple months later on a personal trip.

No Tom, you get 90 days w/in 180 days. She overstayed *that* visa by months- she was not legally in the EU -for months.
Why, oh why, would a country let someone back in, who has proven to stay their illegally?

Germany, Netherlands and Switzerland are three EEA countries noted for strict border control and sticking to the letter of the law.

I am not an expert on this but I think it likely that you will not even be able to get on a plane to leave the US (since they have to send you back at no cost if you are not allowed in the country) because you cannot show a valid visa.

Sorry - having classes starting now is YOUR problem - not THEIR problem - and I think your chance of getting in is very small.

Perhaps, next time follow the rules.

I would contact the school and see if they can recommend an expert (probably very expensive) to get you out of this mess you have created.

Just a preface that the links I posted are to a forum that specifically tallies recent Schengen violation experiences and advises outcomes based on that. Of course I can't provide that, but Natalie can post there for more accurate and objective advice than she can get here.

Extrapolating from posts I read in the other forum, I propose this scenario, assuming a September 10 entry to Schengen:

Arrive Schengen Sept 10, 2014. The next 180 days (Sept 10 to March 10) are automatically encumbered by precise regulations: no more than 90 days within the Schengen zone. Starting about Dec 10, Natalie was in violation of residency laws. At any time she remained within the Schengen zone after this date could have been reprimanded, fined a large amount, or worse. The most critical time for legal trouble is at exit from Schengen. This is when the warnings, fines, signing documents barring re-entry or agreeing to not re-enter for a certain period of time-- this is when it happens. As soon as she clears this point, all violations become moot. She has exited the Schengen zone and is no longer in violation. And now that March 10 has past, there is no longer any encumbrance from the previous entry on future entry to Schengen.

So proposing she faces no obsticles, that she will re-enter on a reset 180 day period. There is no retroactive punishment for previous violations. However, entry to Schengen is always at the discretion of the officer who may ask pointed questions, but she has answers and will admit irresponsibility.

Outcome likely to be positive.

Sorry, hit the button before taking out spelling mistakes.

Right, but tom_mn, the problem with you quoting advice from other forums is this: the information could be wrong.

You've given plenty of incorrect information on this thread alone. Just because someone wrote it on a forum does not mean it is true. Your extrapolation of things written on other forums is even more worrisome.

If someone came on here and quoted what you were saying and posted it as the truth elsewhere based solely on the fact that it was 'posted on a forum', your information would still be wrong. Make sense?

And, surprise, the information is wrong. The 180 day period doesn't reset when you leave.

From the US State Dept. web site:

When you leave the Schengen area after three months, you must wait another three months before you can apply to enter the Schengen area again without a visa.

Use Schengen calculator:
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs...ulator_en.html

Have you contacted your university in Germany? I wonder if they can somehow be of help or give you good advice as likely other students have had this issue. What did the embassy advise?

Have you contacted a passport/visa expeditor? We used one when my daughter had a tricky visa situation. It cost a fair amount but we were able to get her student visa quickly. We used the one that had an initial (first letter of the alphabet) followed by a name (don't want to advertise.) I am sure there are other services, too. I don't know why it was faster to use that service than to go through the usual channels, but it was.

Expeditors like A Bi**s have special arrangement with embassies/visa offices to submit applications personally, bypassing often the slow mailing route.
But even they can't get you a visa if you don't qualify for one.

Thank you everyone for replying!

Backed with so many prayers, documents, optimistim…I walked into the Frankfurt airport, extremely nervous, trying to appear calm…and was only asked the basic "What am I doing here" and "where will I live" questions before getting a smile and "Viel Spass." I literally broke down crying after during baggage claim.

A miracle.

Much of my freak-out was due to the internet, and this website, actually. I don't know if a real miracle occured or if random people on the internet need to cool down about the world and its consequences…the law, the scary border control.

Anyway, my advice to other people in this dilemma: get as many people involved as possible, carry as many documents with you as you can, and look as cute, pleasant and innocent as possible. Oh and praying--no matter how excessive, all the emails I recieved telling me I was being prayed over calmed me significantly. These are just things to set you at ease. And maybe get you in... Good luck!

Terrific news! Thanks for letting us know.

You were very lucky, as you didn't meet a border official with their usual thoroughness. It worked for you, so pleased for you.
But I still maintain that people should play strictly by the rule, and then you have nothing to be nervous about when going through border formalities.

Wouldn;t it have been much simpler just not to ignore all the rules to begin with?????

Congrats, Natalie. I had been wondering about what happened. Thanks for checking in to let us know.

Now finally settle your residency and visa matters as soon as possible.

Thanks for reporting back. Glad it worked out for you. Wouldn't suggest trying it again.

Natalie,

It is great it worked out for you, but I hope others do not take your advice to look "cute, pleasant and innocent" and "pray."

That is actually not the right thing to do and very bad advice. The advice should be to settle your legal matters in a timely manner as to avoid the angst and unpleasant possibilities when you ignore the rules.

Glad it worked out, you are very lucky. I wouldn't call it a miracle--just luck.

However, please know that there are laws for a reason. As others have said, please make sure you meet the LEGAL requirements for your continued stay in Germany, especially in this day of international terrorism.

I hope you took this situation and learned from it. You may not be so lucky next time.