Still looking for anti-Americanism.
Apr 29th, 2003, 02:52 PM
#22
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"What I find more unpleasant than a Frenchman or Englishman being Anti American, is coming across an American, who is Anti American. "
TConrad....consider this post to be nominated for post of the year!!!
Outstanding!
US
TConrad....consider this post to be nominated for post of the year!!!
Outstanding!
US
Apr 29th, 2003, 04:46 PM
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Melpat
If your description of "Americans" wasn't so profoundly stupid, it would be funny coming from someone who claims to be an American. With the rich diversity of the American population it is pretty hard to come up with a stereotypical American anymore, and it certainly isn't the people you describe.
What people in these discussions always seem to forget that it is the governments of the respective countries that people dislike, not the people living in those countries. Right now there are a lot of Americans that are upset with the French government's actions and motivations. Except for a few nuts, that does not mean that these people dislike the French people.
Similarly, there are French people who dislike the American government's actions and motivations. However, with the exception of their nuts, the French people do not dislike Americans.
If your description of "Americans" wasn't so profoundly stupid, it would be funny coming from someone who claims to be an American. With the rich diversity of the American population it is pretty hard to come up with a stereotypical American anymore, and it certainly isn't the people you describe.
What people in these discussions always seem to forget that it is the governments of the respective countries that people dislike, not the people living in those countries. Right now there are a lot of Americans that are upset with the French government's actions and motivations. Except for a few nuts, that does not mean that these people dislike the French people.
Similarly, there are French people who dislike the American government's actions and motivations. However, with the exception of their nuts, the French people do not dislike Americans.
Apr 29th, 2003, 06:56 PM
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Notme,
great point...as I said earlier:
"I have never, ever said that the French people weren't nice. Just like anywhere there are nice and not so nice, however during the 4 times I've been to France I cannot recall one rude person including waiters!
However, my point wasnt that they were not nice,,but that until their government gets its act together I will no longer spend a dime in France or knowingly on French products!
I do not expet an ally to agree with the US all the time, I do however expect an ally not to share information with my enemy!"
US
great point...as I said earlier:
"I have never, ever said that the French people weren't nice. Just like anywhere there are nice and not so nice, however during the 4 times I've been to France I cannot recall one rude person including waiters!
However, my point wasnt that they were not nice,,but that until their government gets its act together I will no longer spend a dime in France or knowingly on French products!
I do not expet an ally to agree with the US all the time, I do however expect an ally not to share information with my enemy!"
US
Apr 30th, 2003, 11:29 AM
#27
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melpat and notme:
In Paris just after New Years Day we had just got out of a cab when one of the 'nuts' came out of Braissere Lipp with a French flag draped on his shoulders. He heard us talking in English, then threateningly charged at us on the street, screaming "American" or some such, waving his arms and fists at us. He certainly wasn't part of the Parisian Welcome committee. In fact he had to be pulled off by his friends and dragged away before my husband punched him.
Now, while he was one of the 'nuts' that all countries have, like 'armand' we will avoid Paris for a while now (maybe things are friendlier in the countryside) and spend our dimes in London this year.
This experience hasn't made us 'hate the French' butI think the lesson in this is that feelings all around are a little 'heightened' and it pays to keep your guard up a little.
In Paris just after New Years Day we had just got out of a cab when one of the 'nuts' came out of Braissere Lipp with a French flag draped on his shoulders. He heard us talking in English, then threateningly charged at us on the street, screaming "American" or some such, waving his arms and fists at us. He certainly wasn't part of the Parisian Welcome committee. In fact he had to be pulled off by his friends and dragged away before my husband punched him.
Now, while he was one of the 'nuts' that all countries have, like 'armand' we will avoid Paris for a while now (maybe things are friendlier in the countryside) and spend our dimes in London this year.
This experience hasn't made us 'hate the French' butI think the lesson in this is that feelings all around are a little 'heightened' and it pays to keep your guard up a little.
May 3rd, 2003, 07:22 AM
#28
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Thanks for the recommendation Michael. Unfortunately I've gone on from Le Puy.
Drove through the mountains to Ales. It's a beautiful ride on the back roads. Ended up in Ales to ride an antique steam train with my Dad. It was a pretty ride and all the people you passed would look up at the train and wave.
Ales was a fun but fairly modern city. Drove up to their observation point for a view down to the city.
Today (Saturday) was a 4 hour regular train from Ales to Clermont-Ferrand. It went through the Gorge d'Aliers and was breathtaking. Seemed like you were clinging at times to the side of the mountain while looking down into the river gorge.
Walked C-F today. Lots of fountains around town and a beautiful, black lava stone cathedral. Tomorrow is a rail day trip to Le Mont-Dore for more views.
It rained Wednesday but since then has been warm and sunny in the afternoons and cool and pleasant at night.
Still haven't had any problems with any anti-Americanism. Nothing but pleasant encounters with people who are very patient with my slow, pathetic attempts at French.
Sorry to hear about your experience Marge20. Unfortunately you can run into crazies anywhere.
Drove through the mountains to Ales. It's a beautiful ride on the back roads. Ended up in Ales to ride an antique steam train with my Dad. It was a pretty ride and all the people you passed would look up at the train and wave.
Ales was a fun but fairly modern city. Drove up to their observation point for a view down to the city.
Today (Saturday) was a 4 hour regular train from Ales to Clermont-Ferrand. It went through the Gorge d'Aliers and was breathtaking. Seemed like you were clinging at times to the side of the mountain while looking down into the river gorge.
Walked C-F today. Lots of fountains around town and a beautiful, black lava stone cathedral. Tomorrow is a rail day trip to Le Mont-Dore for more views.
It rained Wednesday but since then has been warm and sunny in the afternoons and cool and pleasant at night.
Still haven't had any problems with any anti-Americanism. Nothing but pleasant encounters with people who are very patient with my slow, pathetic attempts at French.
Sorry to hear about your experience Marge20. Unfortunately you can run into crazies anywhere.
May 3rd, 2003, 12:34 PM
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Thanks for the encouragement Ira. I guess I'll just have to try harder. Or maybe I'll get lucky in Paris 
Hike, I forgot to answer earlier. I think I got lucky with the view from the Credit Lyonaisse tower. I was there about 4:00pm. The view from the bar is mostly to the east and a bit to the south. I was chatting with the lady tending the bar and she invited my Dad and me to go into the dining room area to see the view to the west. This was the view towards the Presqu'Ile and the cathedral. I doubt if I'd have been asked if there had been diners in the dining room.
I like views from on high having grown up in the flatlands of central Indiana. In addition the lobby for the hotel was pretty spectacular. You look right straight up into the glass pyramid that sits atop the building.
Hike, I forgot to answer earlier. I think I got lucky with the view from the Credit Lyonaisse tower. I was there about 4:00pm. The view from the bar is mostly to the east and a bit to the south. I was chatting with the lady tending the bar and she invited my Dad and me to go into the dining room area to see the view to the west. This was the view towards the Presqu'Ile and the cathedral. I doubt if I'd have been asked if there had been diners in the dining room.
I like views from on high having grown up in the flatlands of central Indiana. In addition the lobby for the hotel was pretty spectacular. You look right straight up into the glass pyramid that sits atop the building.
May 4th, 2003, 12:33 PM
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Just out of interest, we just got back from a week in Crete and a day in Athens.
Both are plastered in anti-American grafitti. There was a demonstration (had to tell if it was anti US or anti-Nato)planned for Souda on Saturday and a hell of a lot of armed cops outside the American Embassy in Athens. But three out of 7 days last week, Chania was full of American sailors on shore leave, and they could not have been made more welcome.
(And, I might add, were an advert for your country, in their courtesy and behaviour. But, heavens, those haircuts!!)
We spent Easter Eve with a young American couple we "met" through the web, and they had just spent a week on the mainland and a week in various islands. They had seen the grafitti everywhere they went, but had met no animosity. We then met, by arrangement, an expat couple we know, who live in Germany and they were facing no disharmony at all.
On the money front, I kept seeing the sailors being a bit gobsmacked at how few euros they were getting for their dollars; but because they were spending greenbacks, they probably weren't getting a great rate.
Both are plastered in anti-American grafitti. There was a demonstration (had to tell if it was anti US or anti-Nato)planned for Souda on Saturday and a hell of a lot of armed cops outside the American Embassy in Athens. But three out of 7 days last week, Chania was full of American sailors on shore leave, and they could not have been made more welcome.
(And, I might add, were an advert for your country, in their courtesy and behaviour. But, heavens, those haircuts!!)
We spent Easter Eve with a young American couple we "met" through the web, and they had just spent a week on the mainland and a week in various islands. They had seen the grafitti everywhere they went, but had met no animosity. We then met, by arrangement, an expat couple we know, who live in Germany and they were facing no disharmony at all.
On the money front, I kept seeing the sailors being a bit gobsmacked at how few euros they were getting for their dollars; but because they were spending greenbacks, they probably weren't getting a great rate.
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