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-   -   Stephen Birnbaum's nickname for London Pensioners (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/stephen-birnbaums-nickname-for-london-pensioners-997438/)

PatrickLondon Nov 12th, 2013 08:23 AM

I suspect the most likely answer is as given by flanner right at the outset.

flanneruk Nov 12th, 2013 10:41 PM

It might not, in the 60s and 70s, have been altogether mistaken to confuse "Old Contemptibles" and Chelsea Pensioners.

Chelsea Pensioners are full-time inmates of the Royal Hospital: they have to be ex-servicepeople, there are only a few dozen of them and they're typically way beyond retirement age. Criteria for selection have changed over the years, but they've typically had to have had substantial careers as volunteer servicepeople.

"Old Contemptibles" was the nickname assumed by UK servicemen in WW1: almost always by volunteers who'd joined before conscription was introduced in 1916. The phrase was a reaction to the Kaiser's alleged dismissal of them as "a contemptible little army", in contrast with his conscripted millions: checking for this post, I find there's no evidence the Kaiser ever did actually say or write that. But the belief he did is as widespread as the American delusion the Boston Tea Party was a protest against import duty, and as close to being a crucial plank of national identity.

So given that few become Chelsea Pensioners before the're 70, virtually all of them from 1950 till the 1980s will probably have been ex-WW1 volunteers. The two terms were never confused in English - but it's very likely that for most of Birnbaum's writing career, virtually all Chelsea Pensioners were also Old Contemptibles.

It's even pretty likely that anyone chatting to a Pensioner would have heard him (in Birnbaum's day they were all he's) mutter something like "nah: there aren't many of us Old Contemptibles left these says"

It wouldn't have occurred to anyone to explain the two terms referred to quite different things. 30 years ago, everyone in England understood both terms fully.

MissPrism Nov 13th, 2013 02:11 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpainti...brigade-179647
I think Flanner is right, but this painting is entitled "The boys of the old brigade". It's also the march they use on occasions like the annual remembrance service

Pepper_von_snoot Nov 13th, 2013 04:34 AM

I think a very nice euphemism for stripper is--

Erection Hostess!


So much more imaginative and "artsy" than the pedestrian "peeler."

Thin, who has known a few ecdysiasts

chartley Nov 13th, 2013 05:02 AM

"The Boys of the Old Brigade" - sung by Peter Dawson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vw98KKdPt4

Peter Dawson was one my father's favourite singers in the 1930s, so we grew up listening to his records.

dulciusexasperis Nov 13th, 2013 06:21 AM

Conjecture tells the OP nothing.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/me...et/id400590494

As you can see from that, Men In Scarlet would be another possibility. It's a simple and logical name to imagine people (including Birnbaum) might have referred to them by.

Remember, Birnbaum was an American writer visiting the UK. His terminology would be that of a tourist, not a native. So one could argue that he like many tourists would be more likely to say, 'who are those men in the red jackets?' That is in fact how many tourists refer to them.

A case could be made for several nicknames. The only way to know is to look in one of Birnbaum's old guidebooks and see what he actually wrote.

StuDudley Nov 13th, 2013 06:53 AM

I have Birnbaum's "Great Britain 1900". I'll try to look it up today - if I don't doze off while doing so.

Birnbaum is the only "old" guide books I keep (I have several of his). He is quite good, and also opinionated - which is something I like in a guide book.

Stu Dudley

willit Nov 13th, 2013 07:37 AM

Some 15-20 years ago, when I still regularly travelled to away matches, Chelsea pensioners were regular attendees at football matches featuring Portsmouth.

They were generally very well respected by fans of either side - except on one occassion when some spotty oik walked behind a group of three pensioners abusing them for supporting Chelsea - and seemed to stupid to realise that the name wasn't an affiliation to Chelsea FC.

StuDudley Nov 13th, 2013 09:13 AM

The London chapter in the "Great Britain" book was very short. No mention of Chelsea "anything".

Stu Dudley

dulciusexasperis Nov 14th, 2013 08:16 AM

The mystery continues. ;-)

I now find myself wanting to know the answer. Mtaback is going to have a lot to answer for if he doesn't come back with the answer.


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