Staying with friends who won't let us out of their sights!
 

Here's an etiquette question:

My (romantically involved) friend and I are traveling to Europe soon, and we're staying with friends. Originally, we were going to stay in a hotel, but our friends insisted. One particular friend has also insisted on being our tourguide in the Netherlands, taking off from work our entire trip and scheduling our every waking moment.

Any thoughts on how to ask her to "tone it down"? As this is our first trip to Europe together, and we had already presented this as a semi-romantic trip (although staying with friends certainly isn't), I'm not sure what else we can do.

Thanks,
Rubies

Tell the well meaning friend and host that you need some time alone together, you would like some time not on a schedule to explore and relax, that they don't need to miss so much work on your account, and lastly get a hotel if you feel you need to. No one can "insist" on where you choose to stay, it's your vacation.

I say stop it in the bud.
We stayed one night with friends in Provence but never again, the wife tried to orchestrate every hour. We now stay nearby in another village and have visits with them because we do like them but the savings because of staying there is not a good option for us who like to get up when we want, travel where we want, eat when we want and where.

Hi rubies, you might want to try this. Thank you friend for her generous hospitality but tell her/him that neither you or your friend are good at sleeping the whole night through and consequently often wake up, turn on the TV etc. Explain that due to your sleeping habits that you will all be more comfortable staying in a hotel. Be firm..it is your trip.

You could also tell your friend that you certaily want to see her/him but due to the lack of time you and your friend have to spend together at home due to work or whatever that you both really need some quiet time to explore the Netherlands on your own. Explain that you do not want a schedule and you want to be able to sleep in when in the mood and to just wing it every day. I am sure your friends in the Netherlands mean well and are no doubt thrilled to have you visit but it is your trip and being honest will be the best otherwise none of you will be happy and you will feel like you have wasted your time and money.

Consider this..what is the most important to you two? Having a romantic trip or giving into friends and ruining your vacation?

As usual, my view will be in the minority on this but I do NOT think you should lie about your feelings to these "friends."

Either suck it up or tell them point blank that you need some "down time" and the proposed "pace" is too fast for you.

If they are really your "friends" they will understand. If you'd rather be deceitful and harbor a lot of resentment then say nothing.

Dare I suggest that you tell your European friends that you wish to explore your relationship with your romantically involved friend a bit and would feel more comfortable in an alternative accommodation? So ... instead of saying that you get up in the middle of the night and watch TV (???), you get up in the middle of the night and do other things!

KC

P.S. Even folks in their 60s like their privacy, ya' know!

Just be honest now! Say that you appreciate all the effort they are doing, but tht you would also like some time on your own. It would surprise me if they would not understand.

Yes, it certainly won't be too romantic if you are all together every hour of the day.

Might I suggest that you plan to "meet up" on certain days to go touring together, or a few meals out of the whole trip. Also re-iterate that this is a romantic trip, so you'll need some alone time. ;)

We NEVER stay with friends or relatives until last year in New Zealand when we were travelling with friends who had relatives in NZ. Never again! We saw so little of Auckland because we were always hanging around for our hostess (who took time off work and appointed herself as tour leader )to get ready. When we did get out it was nearly lunchtime and she had all these jobs to do and we had to follow! Aaaargh!! It drove me mad!!!!
They only had 1 bathroom so I found that difficult. I value my privacy too much.
Don't ruin what could be a great holiday - get a hotel!!!
Life is too short and holidays too precious to be spoiled.

Even when my brother and his wife visited last year in Paris, they made it clear that they would spend half the time at my place and half the time at a hotel, and we all found that this worked out perfectly well. We still saw each other every day while they were at the hotel, but we weren't constantly getting in each other's way or disrupting private plans -- and of course I certainly didn't need to go to the Louvre, the Orsay, the Eiffel Tower or any of that stuff with them.

I alos don't agree with the post who suggested that you make up some story to explain your desire to have some some alone together. I have run into similar issues staying with friends in Italy, and I strongly feel that a friendly, yet honest and straightforward approach is always best, and in the long run is more likely to have a good result.

Your post convinced me that your friends have your happiness in mind, so you can define your needs to them in a friendly way and then be sure to spend some of your time with them to honor the friendship.

My mother is a bit like the poster who thought making up a story would be more "polite", and because I grew up in that atmosphere, it took me many years to find a better way to explain my needs clearly to others without feeling guilty. And I've learned that friendly honesty is best.

One way to go, if you're not comfortable with confrontation: Instead of saying you don't want to stay where she wants and do what she plans, which she'll probably see as evaluating her or her choices, privately take her into your confidence (ok, so even if it's only partly true). Tell her on the sly that your romantic partner doesn't know it yet, but you were surprising them with a very romantic trip with lots of private walks, secret dinners and a room with atmosphere, etc. The only way for her to help you, which is what she actually appears to want to do, is to help keep the secret. So now she's *in* on on the plan, except in reality, it's *your* plan, not hers.

Just be honest. Explain that whilst you appreciate their help and kindness you would like to spned some (mosT) od the time as a couple, exploring at your own pace. Say that any suggestions they can make of palces to visit are welcome, and indeed a couple of days out with them will be much appreciated, but that you'd really rather spend the time together. You hope they understand.
If they are real friend they will, and if they get huffy then they aren't the friends you thought they were.

Ah, I've read down more - something I usually do first - and see there have been some variations of my suggestion already.

Anyway, as long as there's truth in the presentation, I don't particularly see the value of the head-on approach vs the soft sell. Friends might be a bit controlling sometimes, but it doesn't mean they don't have the best of intentions. She's just excited that she's going to get to spend time with you and that she has something to share. People like feeling needed, but can get a little greedy with it sometime. Nothing wrong with being gently understanding about it for the sake of a friend's feelings, as long as you don't sell yourself short in the process.

Hi R,

Is the tour-guide friend the same as the staying-with friends?

If not, you can tell all of your sets of friends that you have to schedule other people as well as them, and can't stay with them the whole trip.

You then have time with each other and with friends.

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

Thanks, everyone, for the varied suggestions. After reading through, I think being honest is the best way to go, so I've emailed her and thanked her for her efforts and planning, but also said we'll be fine on our own for several of the days with a handy guidebook or two (that I've already been pouring over) and a map and suggested not taking off of work to follow us around on our leisurely itinerary through Amsterdam. If we get there and feel too cramped in her and her partner's place, then we'll go the hotel route.

And yes, this particularly excited-for-our-visit friend is one that we're staying with.

Again, thanks so much!

I am w/Cigalenta: Stop it in the bud. There nothing else to do with a clueless friend but to be open and honest. I say clueless because you would have to be to even attempt to get yourself so involved in the midst of a couple's vacation. On that note: was it something you said to her that may had given her the impression?

I have to say, sadly this situation is more common than it should. Some years back, I MENTIONED to friends that we were going to Spain and the next thing I learned is that they are asking us when are we flying in/out of Madrid because they have decided THEY will be joining us all 10 days! A younger me was not wise enough to "grab the bull by the horns"; I just went along. While it all turned out OK, the right thing to do was to SPEAK UP, which is what I encourage you to do. Choose the right words, no need to be harsh, but you need to be open and firm. First thing to do, though, is have your own plan drafted out, including hotels.

rubies, sorry but I disagree with your approach. Here's my thinking...

It will be MUCH more difficult to move out once you arrive and have spent a night or two in their home. At THAT point I can see why they would take it personally... that you feel "too cramped" and don't like spending so much time with them.

If you have arranged a hotel in advance, then it is not any reflection on them or their home, it's about you having privacy for a romantic vacation.

All great suggestions. Just pick one that you feel comfortable with.

I use a variety of this scenario:

"That is so nice of you to offer to show us around. I can't wait to see Amsterdam. Would you be available on Thursday and Friday afternoon? We've made some plans of our own for Saturday."

I don't know how long your visit will be, but you may want to consider spending half of the time at your friend's apartment, and the other half in a hotel.
Since you've already implied you want this to be a romantic trip, they should understand this.

I have to agree w/Suze: your friend could feel used (really) if in top of not agreeing with taking in her plans for your vacation (which I happen to agree with...) you end up not taking her full offer of hospitality either. I strongly suggest you commit for a couple of days stay at your friend and afterwards you lined up accomodations on your own making this clear and open well in advance. Your whole approach really has an undertone of using a friend, even if unadvertently. Be cautious, your friend seems to be a lovely person, albeit a bit clueless.

I agree with Linda431's approach. I would say, accent the positive, the time you want to spend with them vs. emphasizing what you don't want: "here's when we will be available and hoping to spend time with you" (give days/eves/times you want to spend with them).

If they press you, you can go on to mention it's important that you also have some unscheduled time together and plan to do so, but will work around their schedule/work/own needs.

Since moving to Europe, we've had a steady stream of visitors who enjoy our company (we hope!) in addition to free bed and bath. And we are happy to show them the sights and the basics of the mass transit system, best shopping/dining areas, etc. And if they are openly uncomfortable on their own, I'm fine with being their companion.
But to insist on guiding them around all day long for their entire trip? That is simply weird and more than a bit controlling. We love it when our friends tell us they've made plans for the day. We're relieved, not offended.

Speaking as a hostess, I would prefer someone stay in a hotel for a few nights before staying with us rather than afterwards. It does seem a bit insulting (even if it's not intended to be) to stay with someone for a few days, then decamp to a hotel...in the same town...unless it's for a specific reason (for example: staying with us during their free time, then moving to to a hotel for a conference).

Rubies- I feel you have led this friend on and given vague responses. You should call her back, let her know the days you will see her, be specific. My cousin (whom I had not seen in 15 yrs) was very vague about her trip. I took 3 days off to show her around, well, I only saw her when I drove 2 hours to pick her up and she left while I was in the shower (she knocked let me know she was going over to my aunts house 2 blocks away. I never saw her again. She thanked me for picking her up from her home in Mexico via email...2 months before her trip she emailed DAILY on where she wanted to go and I kept asking her where she would stay who she wanted to see and visit, she never gave specific answers so I assumed she would hang out with me. Was I wrong! So please explain to your friends clearly what it is you wish to do. Maybe they feel since you are visiting where they live that your trip revolves around them and they only have the best intentions.

Tell them you'd really be more comfortable in a hotel but would love to spend whatever amount of time that you're comfortable with, going around with them.

I agree - tell them you would rather stay in hotel, but will spend some time with them. We stayed with friends for 10 days. They were having marital problems and we were dying to get out on our own just to get away from their fighting. I told my hubby never again. We compromised this year by going on a cruise in Italy and meeting up with them for a few days after. That was just perfect.

Definitely book the hotel BEFORE you get there and let them know about it. That will also give you more freedom when you are there. My friend and her family stayed with friends in Switzerland. The apartment was large and comfortable, the kids got their own bedroom etc. However, she was exhausted after the trip, since, as she admitted, they never had a chance to relax and just be on their own.

Once you are there, you will have to worry about telling them that you want to move to a hotel and you want some time on your own. It may not work out easily. You will have to worry about this during your flight and during some of your stay there. Is that what you want to do on a vacation?

I think there are some really good suggestions above about how to explain it to your friends. As difficult as it may seem, it is a lot easier to fix it now. Just do it, listen to me, you may regret if you don't. Good luck!

I stay with a friend in Switzerland, and have done so 5 trips now over the past 10 years.

I feel very strongly that you need to committ and stay with your friend's fo the entire time (no matter how it turns out at their apartment) or book a hotel and let them know your plans in advance.

To stay with them, then decide to move out, is incredibly rude and an abuse of their kind offer of hospitality.

I agree with that. I think you should just be honest, there's nothing wrong about that -- sounds like you did that okay. But to stay in someone's place and move out if you don't like is incredibly rude, I agree. I don't see any way you can explain that, it sounds really rude. If you are telling this friend you are staying there, and then after a couple days say you want to move out, that's really insulting. Make up your mind up-front so there is no question of the plans, or expectations. Sounds like this friend is really glad to see you, but also the organizer/planner/mother hen type or whatever, and wants to plan everything. Given that, I don't see how you could move out without insulting here. I'm not that sensitive about this stuff, but if I made special plans and arrangements and prepared my house for someone for a certain time, and they accepted that invitation, then left in a day or two by saying (basically) they couldn't stand to be with me, I don't think that could easily not be a blot on the friendship. Unless you have already stated those terms up front (we may leave if we don't like it) and everything is okay with that. Given your original post and you being talked into thing you didn't even want, that seems unlikely that you've said that, though.

Other people in this thread seem to think that (a) having sex is for everybody a quiet event that doesn't wake up the whole house and (b) having sex is something you can schedule for nights when you are alone, rather than with friends.

My experience of people in in the Netherlands is that they are very open about sex. I would tell my friends that I want to be with my sweetie.

You're spending a huge amount of money to go on this trip, so get what you want out of it. If you really want to include other people in your plans, you might invite them to join you in some touristy activities you k