NorCalif

Geez - it's always something ...

DH and I are living in Amsterdam this year (he's a visiting professor on a research sabbatical at a medical center here). We've been here about 10 months.

So yesterday I'm walking through the train/metro station nearest our apartment. There are a horde of police officers stopping random people and performing searches, not sure why. I was one of the lucky winners of the opportunity to be searched. (They obviously can't be accused of any kind of "profiling" here. I'm a pretty boring 50-something woman. I mean "boring" in a glamourous and exciting way, of course.)

Anyway they ask me if they can pat me down and search my purse. I say yes quite cooperatively - I had nothing to hide. I thought. (Not sure what would have happened if I said no.) I was a little surprised that they could just do that on a random basis with no "probable cause" ... but when in Rome and all that.

Besides I have never been patted down by handsome young Dutch men before and at my age and marital status am not all that likely to have the experience under other circumstances so ... uh, never mind.

They ask me if I have any "weapons". I say no. Then they ask me if I have any knives. I say, well I have a Swiss Army knife in my purse. They inform me that certain areas of Amsterdam are "special zones" and in those zones it is considered a "weapon". BTW, the designation of those zones evidently moves around depending on circumstances and my local train station had just become one of those zones. Who knew?

So they confiscate the knife! I (politely) point out that if I tried to kill somebody with the 1.5 inch blade on that Swiss Army knife, I would have to ask them to hold still while I did it. They laughed appreciatively and even started making jokes about it themselves. Since I had just bought it here in Amsterdam (I had lost my previous one) and it cost 30 Euro or so, I ask, is there any way I can apply to get it back? They said no. I said, so it's legal to buy it, but not legal to take it home? I mean how am I supposed to get it from the store to my house if carrying it is illegal, when I have the misfortune to live in a newly-designated "special zone"? They have no answer for that.

So after 10 months of dodging pickpockets in the train stations, the only people who actually "steal" something from me are the police!

I thought maybe this all caught me by surprise just because I'm an ignorant foreigner. But I went to a social gathering last night at the medical center and told the story to everybody there. None of the Dutch people there had ever heard of such a thing. They couldn't even believe it. I had to repeat the story 20 times and they kept saying, "That can't be right!" Well I agree with that part anyway. ;->

So what I want to know is, will I now be on a watch list as a "weapons" runner?

hetismij

http://www.eenveiligamsterdam.nl/the...it/wapenbezit/ may help explain it, but it does seem extreme to me.
Did they ask for your ID?
You could always query it at your local police station. You could have asked for a receipt for it or for them to make a process verbaal for you I believe. Or did they do that?

ribeirasacra

My wife is Dutch and says the problem is that at the moment there have been a number of stabbings. So searches have intensified. They also extend the area for things like football matches or if the queen (or other important person) is visiting an area. Yes the area is extended seemly without much information being published.
This sort of action does not stop the stabbings, because if I was carrying a knife, with criminal intent and saw a lot of police doing searches I would simply walk to the next station.
I am glad to see that you are not furious with them. I suppose the best you can do is put it down to experience.

Padraig

It's always a problem for people on such duties to know where lines should be drawn. I am sure you would not expect to bring such a knife on to an airplane in your hand baggage.

I also normally carry a knife with me. That's because I am a pipe smoker and have a "companion" which is a tool with a blade, a tamper, and a reamer. When I travel by air, I put it in the checked baggage.

Recently I visited El Escorial, just outside Madrid. They have heavy security there, and I put my jacket through a scanner. Of course the companion showed up, and the security guard wanted to confiscate it. Before I had a chance to protest, a senior officer -- senior in age, anyway -- intervened and pointed out that it was for the pipe which was also visible on the scan. So I was allowed to keep it. [The blade is 2" long, but rounded rather than pointed.]

NorCalif

Hi hetismij -

Hope things are going well your way.

Yeah, they asked for my ID so I gave them my residence permit and passport. They also gave me a receipt for the knife - although since I can't get it back, I don't know what good that does. They were quite polite and it was all good natured - as I said they were joking around about it.

This was at 5:00 PM in the middle of rush hour. Not late at night or at a time I would think would be more suspicious. But what do I know about the habits of "weapons" carriers? Since I still maintain I am NOT one. ;->

I read the link you sent - it talks about "weapons" but I have to admit I would never consider a small Swiss Army knife a "weapon". What if you're going on a picnic and have some kitchen knives in you picnic basket? A corkscrew? What if you're a repairman and have a screwdriver? A hammer? They even mention baseball bats. While I can understand how they can be used as a weapon, what's a kid who plays baseball supposed to do? It's all quite puzzling to me.

Oh well I'm just chalking it up to an interesting travel experience. I hope. And it did entertain everyone a the party last night!

marypat1

Hate that.Having lived in a few different countries I often saw the exploitation of the foreigner.
I was robbed by an airport official in Gatwick. She knew I was rushing and she confiscated my Estee Lauder lip pencil, brand new. I knew that my choice was get it back or miss my flight, so I chose the latter. However, I asked her why and as she stared at her latest collection she quipped "cos it is flammable." Heh!
Always get their name.

NorCalif

ribeirasacra - thanks for the info. Not happy to hear stabbings have increased in Amsterdam. And of course I support logical actions on the part of the police to prevent crime.

But I agree with you - it would have been quite easy when I walked in the station and saw police milling about everywhere, to just go out and get on my bike and transport a "weapon" that way.

My DD (21) was with me and she wasn't searched or questioned. If she'd been carrying my purse I'd still have my knife. DH carries his Swiss Army knife to work at the med center every day (may change that now). So it all seems sort of arbitrary and illogical to me.

Instead of just chalking it up to experience, I'm going to conclude that those handsome young Dutch policemen just wanted an excuse to pat me down! ;->

ribeirasacra

Norcalif...there is always something positive in life...even if it comes in a uniform. ;-)

hetismij

Norcalif - if it were me I would maybe talk to the local police about it - just to see what they think. Try phoning them. i know it doesn't get your knife back but it would be interesting to hear what they define as a weapon. My son works in Amsterdam a lot and always carries his Leatherman with him for instance (an essential bit of kit for a sound engineer, along with Duck tape - a bit like McGyver ), I now he would hate to lose it. Even manage to con it onto an aircraft as a piece of equipment along with the sound gear he had to carry on!

The link also tells you the areas where "weapons" searches are permitted without due cause.

Look on the bright side - at least you had your ID so they couldn't fine you for that

And can you introduce me to your handsome Dutch cops? I have yet to meet any my neighbour is our wijk agent - and he is 55, bald and not very good looking!

Dukey

I do not understand how this can be characterized as "exploitation of the foreigner" so just what am i missing here?

The poster AGREED to be searched; the poster states that she UNDERSTANDS the need; a receipt was given for the item...I am not sure about the "can't get it back" part..I'd sure pursue that...and of course those policemen saw this woman approaching and said to themselves, "she's GOT TO BE foreign for sure..let's stop her."

This is "exploitation?"

rogeruktm

My opinion is you have no complaint. The police did their job.

kismetchimera

The Heading of this post is very Misleading..The policemen did not rob you, they were just doing their job..

Christina

This has nothing to do with expoitation of foreigners, why blow things into something they are not. Presumably the same thing would have happend to a native-born Dutch person, I can't believe they confiscated the knife just because the person didn't have a Dutch passport.

They were just doing their job, obviously. Now I might agree that it doesn't make much sense if searches are voluntary and the issue about not being able to carry it home is a good question (although you could get it by mail).

However, I always would presume a knife is a weapon, I absolutely would think of it that way. I know what a Swiss army knife is, also, and I still think of that as a weapon, in terms of criteria of any place that bans weapons. It is a knife.

NorCalif

hetismij - that's a good idea to call them to clarify things further. It is all sort of confusing to me - and evidently to the Dutch people I've talked to also.

I wonder if they confiscate scissors, tools, knitting needles, etc. I would have been REALLY mad if I'd just bought a set of expensive kitchen knives or screwdrivers or something and had them taken away from me on the way home from the store because some metro/train station I went through had suddenly, unbeknownst to me, been declared a "special" zone.

I asked how the public knows when a place becomes a "special" zone where normal items are not allowed, and they said it is posted on the police website! Well I don't know about you, but I haven't usually made a practice of checking the police website every day. Maybe I will now - you know, I'll have a link to it like you have to a weather site: 50% chance of showers and 30% chance of your metro station becoming a "special zone" today.

But on to the really important part of the subject - yes, I would be very glad to introduce you to the local handsome police officers! ;->

nukesafe

My very limited experience with Dutch cops makes me think they are good humored and fair.

When I lived in Amsterdam a (very) long time ago, one incident sticks in my mind. A fellow on a barge moored near us began putting out little containers with growing plants in them. He then put up a sign, saying, <b> "Marijuana Plants for Sale - One guilder" </b>. The barge was moored right across from the local police station, btw. In no time two cops came aboard and asked the owner if he really had Pot plants for sale. They said that he was under arrest, and to come across the street.

He replied that what he was doing was perfectly legal, and opened up a copy of the Dutch criminal codes, which he had conveniently to hand, and showed them a passage that said something like, "It is illegal to grow or sell Canibis Sativa plants for the purpose of smoking the flowering parts. It is legal, however, to sell the plants for the purposes of making rope (hemp), or for planting wind breaks in your garden."

"Do you guys want to buy some for windbreaks?", he asked.

The cops laughed and left, or so the story goes. I know the sign was still up when I was there, and those little sprouts were rippling in the North Sea breeze.

What's in your garden Hetismij?

hetismij

nukesafe, as I said my neighbour is the local cop, so aprt from a few weeds the birds have left me nothing but other weeds I'm afraid. I don't partake of the stuff anyway so no point in me growing it.
Dukey i think Norcalif's tongue was firmly in her cheek when she posted the title to the topic. She doesn't seem to be complaining too much to me, she's just puzzled, as I would be if it happened to me - I am a foreigner too, but am fluent in Dutch so maybe would have queried it a bit more (and probably would have been arrested for my troubles ).

Ozarksbill

Wow, NorCalif, an unfortunate happening indeed. We were in Amsterdam not long ago and considered it as safe as any metro center. It does seem the police were overly zealous though wouldn't consider it a robbery. So did you move on from there and have a good time? People do get stuck with bad things and it can blot out the good. Afterall you weren't physically threatened or in danger.
Ozarksbill

devious

Hi,

Sorry, I might be reopening this old thread, but I had a similar experience yesterday.

I am (Non-EU) PhD student in Amsterdam and I was returning from work when I was stopped for a routine Guns, Knives police control while entering a metro station. I told them that I had a swiss knife (actually a leatherman wingman multi tool) in my backpack, which I use at work. The police decided that it was still easily accessible and that I would have to pay a fine and the multitool confiscated, since there is now a city wide Knife ban ?

I am now to wait for a letter from the Justice department which will decide what my fine would be.

How serious is this offence specially since its is a multitool ? How much is the fine generally ?

The police officer said he would mention that I was co-operative in his report and that it is a multitool. I was given a receipt(which had a waiver that I am giving up the multitool) and something else with my information on it, a citation I guess ?

This has upset me specially since I was not told what the fine could be nor how serious an offence this can be with respect to future work or even applying for visas to other countries.

hetismij2

You should not have surrendered the knife. The police would still have confiscated it, but if the court decides you are innocent then you could have got the knife back. Now you can't.
There is a local bye-law (APV Amsterdam, art 2.5) in Amsterdam forbidding the possession of all knives in public, but there is an exception for knives which are packed in such a way they can't be used immediately (e.g in a blister pack). They are especially keen on checking for these on public transport.
You will probably get a hefty fine, if the prosecutor agrees with the confiscation. It shouldn't give you a record. Pay the fine and it is done with, or you can have your day in court, which may result in a higher fine, or the case being dismissed.

I'm not sure how good your Dutch is but there is lots of information about all this on the Web, in Dutch.

devious

Thanks a lot, I dont mind losing the multi-tool / knife. It is good to know that there should not be a permanent record. I was willing to pay the fine there itself, but apparently that was not possible.

I have started using Google translate to look at the law and I see there is a ban on all sharp things which can be used to stab with since October 2012. I just did not think it would result for things that are legitimate tools.

I guess I just have to wait it out and hopefully the fine doesnt cost me a lot of my monthly paycheck !