St. Petersburg/Moscow...questions about train & independent travel...
Jul 21st, 2006, 06:36 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 783
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
St. Petersburg/Moscow...questions about train & independent travel...
How long is the train ride between these cities? Best way to get to St. Petersburg from Scandinavia?...would it be departing from Helsinki?...train time from there? Haven't been able to find a website to give me travel times.
Have always been an independent traveler however Russia causes me to rethink this...how do most of you travel....on your own or with some type of tour?
Thanks.
Have always been an independent traveler however Russia causes me to rethink this...how do most of you travel....on your own or with some type of tour?
Thanks.
Jul 21st, 2006, 06:49 AM
#2
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Travelfan1:
When I was traveling in Russia about 8 or 9 years ago, I took an overnight train from Moscow to St.Pete. I seem to recall that we boarded after dinner...around 8 or 9 and arrived in St.P around 8 or 9 in the am. So, maybe about 12 hours? My biggest memory was the fact that we were traveling in the dead of winter (Feb) and it was, of course, freezing outside but sweltering in our car. We couldn't figure out how to turn down the heat and, due to all the stories of train bandits, were afraid to open our door. It was unbelievably hot and none of us slept.
In terms of independent travel, we did it all ourselves. Kind of tricky with getting a Visa but once we figured that out, not bad at all. The internet is great and we found an art history professor in St.P who took us all over in his Volga and acted as our tour guide. We stayed in a private apt in St.P that we also found on the net... the husband was an artist and the wife head of the local hospital. She prepared the most delicious breakfasts every day. Independent travel in Russia absolutely can be done...just have to be creative.
Have fun.
Taitai
When I was traveling in Russia about 8 or 9 years ago, I took an overnight train from Moscow to St.Pete. I seem to recall that we boarded after dinner...around 8 or 9 and arrived in St.P around 8 or 9 in the am. So, maybe about 12 hours? My biggest memory was the fact that we were traveling in the dead of winter (Feb) and it was, of course, freezing outside but sweltering in our car. We couldn't figure out how to turn down the heat and, due to all the stories of train bandits, were afraid to open our door. It was unbelievably hot and none of us slept.
In terms of independent travel, we did it all ourselves. Kind of tricky with getting a Visa but once we figured that out, not bad at all. The internet is great and we found an art history professor in St.P who took us all over in his Volga and acted as our tour guide. We stayed in a private apt in St.P that we also found on the net... the husband was an artist and the wife head of the local hospital. She prepared the most delicious breakfasts every day. Independent travel in Russia absolutely can be done...just have to be creative.
Have fun.
Taitai
Jul 21st, 2006, 07:02 AM
#3
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
See this website for train travel between Helsinki and St Petersburg:
http://www.vr.fi/heo/eng/ita/ita.htm
Jane
http://www.vr.fi/heo/eng/ita/ita.htm
Jane
Jul 21st, 2006, 07:09 AM
#4
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tf1,
You might also consider a short, personal, English speaking, overview guided tour (walking & subway) upon arrival just to get oriented/acclimated. They are pretty cheap and can provide a wealth of info even if you don't go inside any big tourist buildings.
You might also consider a short, personal, English speaking, overview guided tour (walking & subway) upon arrival just to get oriented/acclimated. They are pretty cheap and can provide a wealth of info even if you don't go inside any big tourist buildings.
Jul 21st, 2006, 07:29 AM
#5
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, this web site is invaluable for independent travel to that part of the world. We got Russian "invitations" from WayToRussia which was recommended here but we actually got our visas ourselves at the consulate in Houston.
http://www.inyourpocket.com/
http://www.inyourpocket.com/
Jul 21st, 2006, 12:16 PM
#6
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those of you who have done this, please fill me in on language issues. Did you do more than just learn the Cyrillic alphabet? Do any of you speak Russian? Did you rely on other languages than English that you know?
Jul 21st, 2006, 12:28 PM
#7
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 933
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We took the overnight train from Moscow to St P afew years ago (in August). Boy was I glad when morning came! The toilet was not for going to -maybe ok for males and I was so hot that i kept needing to drink. Thankfully I sweated it all out!!!
The cabin was very small - I felt like we had gone back in time -1920s. Weird tableclothy material was on the bunks and there were these frilly flouncy curtains on the window and tablecloth on the small table.
Thank goodness I was so tired i slept, but my poor husband didnt!
My husband learned the alphabet -it made me feel positively dyslexic!
I learned enough Russian to get by.Therefore he spelt out the letters and I translated! It took a little time! We felt it really was necessary though.If you can learn French you can easily learn Russian.
The cabin was very small - I felt like we had gone back in time -1920s. Weird tableclothy material was on the bunks and there were these frilly flouncy curtains on the window and tablecloth on the small table.
Thank goodness I was so tired i slept, but my poor husband didnt!
My husband learned the alphabet -it made me feel positively dyslexic!
I learned enough Russian to get by.Therefore he spelt out the letters and I translated! It took a little time! We felt it really was necessary though.If you can learn French you can easily learn Russian.
Jul 21st, 2006, 05:43 PM
#8
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have been to Russia twice - once with a tour - when that was the only way you could go. And much more recently independently. Enjoyed the latter much more.
That said - unlike Central europe - where english is VERY widely spoken and the tourist infrastructure is very well developed - Russia is still not as tourist friendly.
My caveat is that it is much more difficult, time-consuming, and inconvenient to travel on a budget in Russia than central europe. We went first class (top hotels, cabbed almost everywhere) just because to do otherwise was a giant pain in the butt - and would have made the vacataion much less enjoyable - to me anyway.
If you're a rough it sort of traveler with unlimited time you can probably do it on a budget - but I;m past that age (50) and have very limited actual (vs on paper) vacation time - so going first class seemed the best way. (In the most expensive places everyone does speak English, is prepared for your requests, the food is much better and there are no annoying waits for public transit.)
We flew in from Stockholm (I had been at a meetingi n Malmo) and returned the same way.
On my first trip (tour) we flew into Moscow from London, trained to St Pet (NO fun), then took the train (interminable) to Helsinki and flew home from there
That said - unlike Central europe - where english is VERY widely spoken and the tourist infrastructure is very well developed - Russia is still not as tourist friendly.
My caveat is that it is much more difficult, time-consuming, and inconvenient to travel on a budget in Russia than central europe. We went first class (top hotels, cabbed almost everywhere) just because to do otherwise was a giant pain in the butt - and would have made the vacataion much less enjoyable - to me anyway.
If you're a rough it sort of traveler with unlimited time you can probably do it on a budget - but I;m past that age (50) and have very limited actual (vs on paper) vacation time - so going first class seemed the best way. (In the most expensive places everyone does speak English, is prepared for your requests, the food is much better and there are no annoying waits for public transit.)
We flew in from Stockholm (I had been at a meetingi n Malmo) and returned the same way.
On my first trip (tour) we flew into Moscow from London, trained to St Pet (NO fun), then took the train (interminable) to Helsinki and flew home from there
Jul 21st, 2006, 09:59 PM
#9
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Travelfan1,
Husband and I took the Helsinki train to St. Petersburg last summer. It took about 6 hours if I remember correctly. We had a 1st class car (assigned), it was fine in terms of comfort. The scenery was ok during the journey but not great. The "staff" came around several times to deliver light snacks, offer currency exchange service, and at the end came with a custom officer to check passports. The Helsinki train station is very conveniently located in the city center, and the tracks were very easy to find with clear signs. The St. P station was not as close, about 20 minute taxi ride from most of the popular hotels along the Nevsky Prospekt. Hope this helps.
Husband and I took the Helsinki train to St. Petersburg last summer. It took about 6 hours if I remember correctly. We had a 1st class car (assigned), it was fine in terms of comfort. The scenery was ok during the journey but not great. The "staff" came around several times to deliver light snacks, offer currency exchange service, and at the end came with a custom officer to check passports. The Helsinki train station is very conveniently located in the city center, and the tracks were very easy to find with clear signs. The St. P station was not as close, about 20 minute taxi ride from most of the popular hotels along the Nevsky Prospekt. Hope this helps.
Jul 22nd, 2006, 02:56 PM
#10
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nytraveler--
Your travel style and age group sounds very similar to ours. We've never tried a tour because tours just don't call to us. We've visited Hungary, Romania, Czech Republic, Poland & Lithuania on our own. But, what you are telling me, if I understand correctly, is that we won't fare nearly as well in St. Petersburg on our own trying to be budget travellers. And, we should probably plan to spend a lot more than we typically would be cause we'll be staying in fancier places, eating at more upscale places & taking a cab rather than trying to figure out public transportation on our own. Am I right here?
So, if we plan a trip would be be a whole lot better off going when our Russian-speaking daughter-in-law could go along? Or, is it more than just the language barrier part?
Your travel style and age group sounds very similar to ours. We've never tried a tour because tours just don't call to us. We've visited Hungary, Romania, Czech Republic, Poland & Lithuania on our own. But, what you are telling me, if I understand correctly, is that we won't fare nearly as well in St. Petersburg on our own trying to be budget travellers. And, we should probably plan to spend a lot more than we typically would be cause we'll be staying in fancier places, eating at more upscale places & taking a cab rather than trying to figure out public transportation on our own. Am I right here?
So, if we plan a trip would be be a whole lot better off going when our Russian-speaking daughter-in-law could go along? Or, is it more than just the language barrier part?
Jul 22nd, 2006, 05:58 PM
#11
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It depends on how much time you have vs how much money matters. At this stage the beau and I have limited vacation time together and two comfortable incomes. So we would rather spend money than waste time.
For specifics - we have done Prague (twice), Budapest and parts of Poland - with day trips - by ourselves. English was widely spoken, travel was easy, food was generally good and nice places to eat easily found and most people are plesant and eager to help - very little different than travel in western europe. We walked and took public transit (which was quite convenient) everywhere.
Russia does not operate like this. English is becoming more widely spoken - but some places no one speaks any. Food is many places is really bad (inedible). We tried public transit a couple of times and each one we were stopped by inspectors to see our tickets. After the first time we waited 25 minutes for a bus that was supposed to be there in 5 we started taking cabs everywhere. (The drivers all speak English - many had driven cabs in NYC but came back to Russia since it's more profitable.) Service in our hotel (Astoria) was somewhat uneven - but once you made it apparent you beleived in tipping it improved tremendously.
You don;t need a guided tour. Lots of things you can see yourself, or pick up a guide on the spot for a major attraction if you prefer. But everything is more complicated and time-consuming and many service people feel no need to co-operate - or do anything at all.
Given my control issues and out limited time - we just paid to go first class. You can do a budget - but it's something of a struggle - unlike Central europe.
For specifics - we have done Prague (twice), Budapest and parts of Poland - with day trips - by ourselves. English was widely spoken, travel was easy, food was generally good and nice places to eat easily found and most people are plesant and eager to help - very little different than travel in western europe. We walked and took public transit (which was quite convenient) everywhere.
Russia does not operate like this. English is becoming more widely spoken - but some places no one speaks any. Food is many places is really bad (inedible). We tried public transit a couple of times and each one we were stopped by inspectors to see our tickets. After the first time we waited 25 minutes for a bus that was supposed to be there in 5 we started taking cabs everywhere. (The drivers all speak English - many had driven cabs in NYC but came back to Russia since it's more profitable.) Service in our hotel (Astoria) was somewhat uneven - but once you made it apparent you beleived in tipping it improved tremendously.
You don;t need a guided tour. Lots of things you can see yourself, or pick up a guide on the spot for a major attraction if you prefer. But everything is more complicated and time-consuming and many service people feel no need to co-operate - or do anything at all.
Given my control issues and out limited time - we just paid to go first class. You can do a budget - but it's something of a struggle - unlike Central europe.
Jul 23rd, 2006, 05:06 AM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,079
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We have been independent travelers for ten years and have traveled alone in Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, and much of Western Europe. We still took the advice of many to not try to go to Russia on our own. So we went with Eastern Tours, which is somewhat minimalist, but they arranged visas, hotels, airport transfers, and guides for part of the time in St. Petersburg and Moscow. I learned the Cyrillic alphabet, but not much else, except for please and thank you.
I was not sorry to have the help. We also spent some time in each city on our own and had no trouble taking metros (the Cyrillic alphabet was a huge help) and getting around with a good map. I had bought our train tickets from Moscow to Riga, Latvia ahead of time and I was very glad for that as it didn't look like it would have been easy at the train station. We then went on and toured Latvia and Estonia on our own with no trouble at all. Lots of English there in the places we were (not out in the countryside).
I was not sorry to have the help. We also spent some time in each city on our own and had no trouble taking metros (the Cyrillic alphabet was a huge help) and getting around with a good map. I had bought our train tickets from Moscow to Riga, Latvia ahead of time and I was very glad for that as it didn't look like it would have been easy at the train station. We then went on and toured Latvia and Estonia on our own with no trouble at all. Lots of English there in the places we were (not out in the countryside).
