If one can pay a bit more then I would normally like to pay ,, ( but did once for a special occaision) do look at the Tuilleries View room at the Hotel Brighton.. I think it is the largest room I have stayed in while in Paris. Nice too. Views were awesome.

lol KTtravel

Micheline & adrienne, Yes on apts! thanks for clarifying.

Cathinjoetown, thanks for your hotel rec, they must know you there by now. Must be nice to have a "my usual" in Paris.

letsgeaux & annhig, sounds like a wonderful experience. Mom loves afternoon tea so I'll rsvp for that. Le Cinq could possibly be an added splurge we'll see! Might be fun to check out a room too like Continental_Drifter did.

Another splurge would be dinner at Jules Verne. This is Codi's choice (bf). We've considered lunch but I think dinner would be really special so we've held off. Hope to finally make it this time. I'm wondering if there's a specific table he should request for? I presume all seats will have amazing views but sometimes there's a "better" table to request for whether it's closer to the windows, away from WC, the back table, etc. Any input would be great. This is a big deal to us so want to get it right.

manouche, we typically enjoy apts for the space and views you don't normally get from hotels unless you pay a hefty tag. I also like having a kitchen. I have missed turndown service though! We've rented in the 7th via airbnb in the past and the owner, who unfortunately removed his listing, had similar worries. Slowly catching on? I suspect it might take some time but thanks for the look out. We would hate to pay all that money only to be transferred to a different unit and have no one to account.

justine, that is definitely out of our price range but will bookmark for future, you never know. I love, love the Tuileries and those views are amazing!

Nikki, your comment reminded me of the sleeping pods in Tokyo from the show, An Idiot Abroad. The Venice episode had me in tears laughing, have you seen the show?

I'd love to hear some of your favorite pastry shops, bistros, stores etc in St Germain or anywhere in Paris for that matter. I am not a big shopper but get much pleasure from anything pretty even if it's browsing. Any unique tours too esp one mom might enjoy. Thank you!

Nikki - The George V rents rooms by the hour?

LOL - No. I still feel a little crazy for doing it. We asked to be moved to a different room - One that did not require one of us to stand on the bed so that the other could open the bathroom door. They kindly explained that they were fully booked because of a wedding. We asked if there was another hotel they could recommend and they did. They sent us to the Prince de Galles. I think that saved us nearly 400E per night and was wonderful.

manouche - I don't think it's fair to paint all Paris apartments with one broad brush. Many ARE legal and your many posts on this issue will drive away their valid business prospects. Reputable companies like ParisPerfect and others should not be compared to AirBnB. That's not fair.

In some scenarios, if a person deliberately interfers with the renting of a property based on rumor or broad speculation, that's a tortious interference with business.

I know you feel passionately about this because you have posted it before. Isn't it really up to the apartment owner to ensure he/she is paying their taxes? It is not the business of the renter.

Continental Drifter - not passionate about the apartment issue, but much more involved with it, thus privy to much more current information than people who plan to visit Paris, or who are relying on information from past visits. There is no "broad speculation or rumor" involved in any of my statements, just factual information.

The fact is that many people are not aware of the current information, or do not wish to consider the effect they will have on their vacation. Facts are not fear-mongering, though they should inspire reflection.

The fact is that many - in fact, most - apartments in Paris are not legal. There are many conditions that must be met, for this to occur.

The fact is that many reputable agencies are not operating in compliance with the law. Whether they pay appropriate taxes or not is irrelevant - it is the actual apartment that must conform to the law. Most of them do not.

A high-profile agency just received a visit from the Mayor's representatives (ParlerParisApartments), and I know 2 French residents (who have been quietly renting several properties via VRBO for years), who have been fined. There have been many more instances like this, just in the last couple of months.

The co-propriete that governs each building has the final say in whether or not the residents may rent short-term. Most of them do not allow this, since it means that the residents would have to convert the building to a commercial tax status, and the average resident cannot afford this. The co-propriete works much more quickly than the government does. A couple of phone calls that threaten the owner/manager is all it takes for a listing to "disappear". And no, it's not me making those calls.

It is not my intention to damage anyone's business reputation, and I have not done so. Reputation is simply not relevant to the actual situation.

Information such as this is important to people who plan to rent apartments in the near future, especially first-time visitors who are not aware of what's going on in Paris. Perhaps you have never experienced problems with rentals in Paris, but I know several people who have. I would like to help others avoid the same situation.

I just returned from France on the 14th of October. My son and I stayed 6 nights at Hotel Bonaparte in the Saint Germain area. This was our fourth visit to this hotel. We love the location! We actually walked almost everywhere we went, including the Tour Eiffel. That day the Fit Bit told us we had walked over 13 miles. The Notre Dame is just across the river as is the Louvre. We took the metro to the Port of Versailles to the auto show. It was quite a distance.

The price for a twin room which actually wasn't so small, was 180€ per night.

KEROUAC,

"Look at the arrondissements numbered from 9 to 20, excluding 16."

Why so? Just curious....

Kerouac---who's 50? :-). One more year but have loved St Germain though my 40s!

I presume kerouac said arr 9-20 on the theory they'd be a lot cheaper than St Germain, that's why.

YOu have to decide what's more important to you -- money or location. Of course there are cheaper areas in Paris than St Germain, and some real cheap hotels (maybe more in outer arrondisments). But I always stay in arrondisements 9-20 (9 and 14 usually), and I sure don't pay half of 250 euro for a double room. I stay in "nice" hotels, but that means 3*, but they are more than 125 euro in the peak season. I can get them maybe around 125 euro in summer when rates are cut (mid-July through August), but not in October (or May). Of course I could stay for less but I don't want to, I like the level I stay in for comfort.

So of course you can find cheaper hotels in other areas (or in St Germain), is that what you want or not? Just to find a real cheap hotel? Even the Latin Qtr is cheaper than St Germain though, in case you didn't know it. You are getting picky with wanting balconies, etc, so I suspect you don't just want to find a real cheap hotel.

I just noticed the OP said only $250 per room, not 250 euro. Well, that may be difficult in St Germain, actually. That's only about 190 euro.

Here is an example of a 3* hotel I love where I've stayed in severall times in a cheaper area, arr. 9 (near Trinite) metro.
http://www.hotel-langlois.com/fr/chambres

Their superior double rooms are 160-190 euro in peak season, for example.

A reason that I recommend staying in outer Paris even when money is not an object is that you get a much fuller experience of Parisian life by not staying in the center. Everybody who claims that they were able to "walk everywhere" to see "all of the sights" mean that they have stayed in the heart of "tourist central" and visited museums and monuments -- which everybody will visit no matter what part of Paris they are staying in -- and restricted themselves exclusively to shops and restaurants designed to appeal to tourists even when they are proud to say "we didn't hear a word of English."

It is interesting to note that European and French tourists generally prefer completely different areas, such as the Grands Boulevards, and of course the 9th and 10th arrondissements which are the two arrondissements with the most hotels in the city. These arrondissements are labelled as "sleazy" by a lot of North Americans (until they have discovered them themselves) because real people actually live there. In areas such as Saint Germain or the Ile Saint Louis (the most extreme example), 50% of the apartments are either just vacation rentals or remain empty about 48 weeks of the year because they belong to wealthy people who live in other countries.

Everybody has the right to their own preferences, but I will remain dismayed by people who are unwilling to venture out of what they think is their comfort zone. In fact, outer Paris is not only much cheaper but also much friendlier and therefore more "comfortable."

scatcat, thank you for the hotel rec. It's so great that you have a regular hotel that you love in Paris, just like Cathinjoetown. Auto show with your son, how fun. Might look into that next time.

Christina, thanks I like that hotel too but you're right about the balcony. We will pay extra or give up some space for it, preferably the latter. This will be our first time to stay in a hotel in Paris, both times in apts.

kerouac, I don't think the 9th is sleazy at all. In fact, we enjoyed it a lot on our first visit when we stayed in the 7th. Also like the Ile St Louis, Village St Paul and St Michel areas.

We had tapas at Terrass Hotel in Montmarte during our last visit and drove around the area at night. I noticed it was very lively...maybe I had too much to drink? I actually didn't like it much the first time we went and never thought I'd consider staying there but I felt differently this time. What do you think of that area...definitely lots of nicer and cheaper apts. It's getting me thinking. As you can tell, staying in St Germain is not set in stone, but I do want to explore it more this time.

denisea, I see you're going to the Amalfi to celebrate! Are you squeezing some Paris time before the big day??

My almost 50 year old self will be in Paris for Christmas (less than 60 days before we leave) and staying in the 6th. It won't get here soon enough.

How fun!! I'm jealous. I'm sure you'll have a fabulous time and can't wait to hear all about it.

About 10 years ago we stayed at cathinjoetown's Hotel Le Clément. It was very nice and it was in a nice location but the room, by US standards, was very small. There were 3 of us so we had a junior suite. The entrance to the bathroom was inside the larger room. Therefore the third person had to enter the second bedroom to get to the bathroom. This may be a little too close for your group.

tessietoes. That hotel pic was so funny, saw the ghost right away. Think they did that on purpose?
I have been looking at these.
http://www.citadines.com/en/property...tml?City=Paris
We are going to do space a on a military flight next trip to Europe so can't really book far in advance. I like having an apartment so am looking at places we can book last minute.

Okay, that's just a weird photo to include. Creepy guy in the corner. Very strange. I love the one of the little girls, though.

Weird they deleted my post with the vrbo apt I liked.

gardendiva, thank you and you're right, it would be too cramped. For the 3 of us we would like to get 2 hotel rooms; the Clément location looks great. Also considering a 2 bedroom, 2 bath apt with hopefully a balcony.

flpab, a marketing move maybe? The Citadines looks nice, checked out the St Germain & Bastille units and saw one with a view, will definitely keep this in mind, thanks! Space A- do you know where you're heading for your next spontaneous trip?

Drifter, up top I thought you said "checked out" not "checked out of" the George V, lol a tad different from my future vagabond move of just checking out one of their rooms after tea time :)

Gardendiva you are right.

That is how the junior suite I stayed in at the Clément was set up. Both bedrooms were small, one double, one single. It worked for my niece and me, she is young and doesn't get up in the night!

It would be tight but suitable for a couple and child.

The hotel has triple rooms which are larger but the config. is one double and one single--not that great for 3 friends.

Here's the listing again, vrbo# 1207029a {my dreamy Paris apt}
http://www.vrbo.com/1207029a

Just a heads up, there are no reviews on that apt so I don't know if it's even real...it's too beautiful! {in case you were interested}.

Please, do not be fooled by the "real Paris" mumbo jumbo. As if all those Parisians who actually LIVE in the St. Germain area are fake or something.

They aren't average people, that's all, or stores. It is one of the most expensive areas of Paris for people to live, and a lot of the stores are high-end, also. And there are tons of tourists, so in that sense it is different from more residential neighborhoods. Of course, a neighborhood that is really residential or far out doesn't have many hotels.

But I think it's not realistic to think some first-time tourist staying a few days who doesn't speak French is going to be like a typical resident, anyway, or would want to. When I first go to a major city I've been interested in for historical reasons or whatever, my goal is not to wander around typical lower to middle class residential areas. And I would never recommend tourists to my city do that.

tessietoes, the problem with the balcony desire is there just aren't that many in Paris (hotels or apts). So it really limits your options and costs. And some people call a "balcony" something that is just a wide window ledge, you can't sit on it. Then there are Juliet balconies which are a bit bigger than just the window ledge, but you still can't sit out on them with a table and chairs. So you have to watch out for that in descriptions, depending what you want. I gather you want something you can sit on or wouldn't care so much. In the middle of large urban areas, there may not be any great view to see with a balcony, anyway.

But you can find such apts if you look hard enough. And there are some hotels with a few rooms like that, also, but they are usually expensive, I doubt any will be below $250. For example, the 4* Hotel Parc St Severin in the Latin Qtr has several rooms with terraces. They range from about 200-400 euro, depending on seasons, etc. http://www.paris-hotel-parcsaintseverin.com/en/rooms/

Christina, thanks so much for all that info.

My mom won't be coming with us anymore so it'll just be us two. I gave the planning a little break but now back at it again. What do you think of this area?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ca...605ffbf60b409c

Thank you!

I know that area very, very well. When I was working I always stayed at the Relais St. Germain, right on the carrefour. Excellent metro and bus lines, news kiosk, a taxi rank quite close. Lots of restaurant choices in all price ranges on both sides of St Germain.

I no longer stay at the relais, too pricey now, but love the Hotel Clément, on rue Clément, just a few streets west on same side of Blvd St Germain.

Walking distance to so much--Notre Dame, Cluny, Ste Chapelle, Panthéon, Luxembourg Gardens, etc.

Just realized I mentioned the Clément upthread. No connection, just a satisfied guest.

The flat overlooking the carrefour doesn't show the kitchen or bathroom, I would want to see photos. The photo of the carrefour looks as if it was taken standing just to the left of the Relais St. Germain, facing the street.

Cathinjoetown, thanks for the tips. The kitchen is sufficient for what we would need & there's also a shower {not handheld} in the bathroom so that's good too. There's another apt I'm waiting to hear from near St Sulpice but might be over our budget and also one near Catherine's Square, an area we loved. So far all good options :) Thanks again!

Since I see that you are still considering apartments, I'll pose this question to manouche: just how can we verify the apartment we want to rent is legal? Or are you advising everyone to stay in hotels?

We're planning on a week in Paris with 3 children in June and an apartment suits our needs far more than hotel rooms. You do, indeed, have me terrified that we'll arrive at the apartment we have already booked and find we have nowhere to stay. So some practical advice, please.

maryado.. MOST short term apartments are illegal in Paris.. its a case of the owner being caught.. or reported ( usually by neighbors sick of strangers coming in and out of there buildings.. think about how you would feel) Most of these apartments are in residential buildings.. permanent residents with a nice security entrance have to put up with strangers getting the entrance code given to them ( as I said.. think how you would feel)

Since there are thousands of illegal rentals , and the crack down has just started ( I say crack down because these short term rentals were never really legal in most cases,, the owners do not declare the income etc) but for many years the authorities didn't enforce the laws.. However the vacancy rate for small apartments for residents is very very bad in Paris now.. so the authorities have now decided to step up enforcement.
There are so many however.. that its usually the ones that are most noticed ( or neighbors complain about) that are getting caught in the net first.
So its a gamble.

I have rented before.. 2012 and 2014, but I used a small agency that actually owned all the apartments in the building I rented (so no neighbors to worry about complaining). Owner said his apartments were legal as he had applied for and gotten very expensive permits.. no way of knowing if that is true.. but as I said.. since he ( and partners) own the building I felt fairly certain it would be ok.( small building think there was only 5 units, all of the units were small though.. suitable for 2-3 people max so sorry not a good suggestion for you )

VRBO is one of the riskier clearing houses to use.. just because that's all it is a listing agency for private owners.. private owners who may have grouchy neighbors..

I agree an apartment would be ideal with three kids ( although if kids are older teens you could just get two hotel rooms side by side in a smaller hotel ) .. I sympathize.. I have three kids and hubby and I are both well aware of what travel in Europe is like for families of five.. not very convenient for sure. ( which is why we did things differently btw.. I took oldest child on a one on one trip, then hubby took next child the next year, then I took last one , we waited till they were between 11-13 ) It was easy to tailor each trip to individual child and it was nice to share one on one time with kids before they became teenagers.. not saying that's for you though,, just saying that it is harder to have a larger family in Europe with those tiny cars, tiny hotel rooms etc..

Good luck.. hope you can find what will work for you.

PS if going in summer do try and get an apartment or hotel with AC..

PS Aparthotels ARE legal.. Citidines is a chain ..but most seem to take only four to a room.. someone posted the one near the Gare du Lyon takes five though.. you could check that out..

You do, indeed, have me terrified that we'll arrive at the apartment we have already booked and find we have nowhere to stay. So some practical advice, please.>>

this is not the problem with illegal lets which are no more likely to be double booked than any others. The problem is with people letting out an apartment which they may not necessarily own without the correct permissions from the local council.

You can avoid this either by staying in a hotel, by booking an aparthotel, or by using one of the more reputable agencies, some of which are US based and with whom you therefore have a US enforcable contract. They are also more likely to take credit cards too which gives you an extra level of protection but they are probably going to be more expensive than a private let through VRBO or HomeAway.

Good luck with finding something that suits you and your pocket!

Thank you very much, justineparis and annhig, for your suggestions! We did book through an agency (hopefully one of the more reputable ones, but that's difficult to determine from the States) and have inquired because of this thread. The agency assures us there will be no problem. As a back-up plan, however, we are now checking on aparthotels and plan to go armed with a list of alternatives including hotels. Good luck, tessietoes. Didn't intend to hijack your thread so I hope the info is helpful for you too.

good idea, maryado to have a backup, but I think you'd be very unlucky to have to use it.

I'm sure you'll have a wonderful trip.

As far as I am concerned there is no best place, for everyone. We all have our likes. I have mine! I would never say that one is the best and the only place for you to stay.

As far an rentals..there are many licensed companies with rental apartments in Paris. 100% legal in every possible way!

a bientot..

Joan

gracejoan - a licensed rental agency is only licensed to rent property, following guidelines set by various "umbrella" companies. This means they agree to provide contracts, insurance, etc. This does not make the rentals legitimate by any means.
Renting from a licensed agency does not mean that the rentals are considered legal by the City of Paris, it does not guarantee that rentals are permitted by the coop board of the building, and it does not mean that there won't be any problems - last-minute cancellations, etc.
People continue to rent, and many continue to have problems. There is no way to tell what will happen - or when - in any individual case.

sorry, I think you are mistaken....

gracejoan,

manouche seems to be conducting a one-woman campaign to stop what she says are illegal lets - the vast majority of her posts are on this topic.

that's not to say that she doesn't have a point, but it gets a little wearing reading it on every thread about renting an apartment in Paris.

Thanks, I have not read that many of them to see the 'campaign'!


There are a few agencies that have acquired official zoning consent (costly thing to do) in Paris to legally do short term rentals!

Manouche is not wrong. It may be annoying to be reminded of it again and again, but she is not making this all up to scare or upset people.
The crack down has really stepped up( majority of short term rentals were always illegal but city did not enforce this law until recently.
If one lives in Paris they would be aware of this more then most of us visitors since there are articles in local papers, usually referring to the lack of affordable One could likely find articles online too, if they can read French of course.

I do use an agency that assures me they have the very expensive permits, whether they do or not who can say, I do know that most times people get turned in by neighbors, so since I knew the agency I use owned all the apartments in the building , I didn't feel I had much risk even if they were not legal.

I do not believe most apartments rented via VRBO or Airnub are legal, however some rentals with them ARE legal if they are normally owner occupied, as a owner may rent out their primary residence for up to three months a year legally.

You will find that some of the apartments listed on vrbo are these same legal agency listings, and are therefore quite legal.

Some do get confused that vrbo is only a place to list your rental apartments. It is not a rental agency.

Joan

I've been living in Paris for 10 years, and belong to several neighborhood associations which work with the Mayor's office to preserve the quality of life for residents and tourists alike.

The reason I repeat the same information is that the majority of people have not heard about the current rental situation, are not aware of the consequences they might face (critical, if travelling with a family), and also are not aware that there are other, affordable alternatives to apartments. I'm not a woman, but that doesn't matter. If you want to call reporting reliable information "a campaign", that's fine with me.

HomeAway/VRBO began the campaign "Live Like A Local", about 8 years ago. Since then, the rental situation has exploded in all parts of the world. In 2008, HomeAway/VRBO and their subsidiaries listed fewer than 4,000 vacation rental apartments in Paris. In 2014, the figure has climbed to 30,000 units. The vast majority of these are illegal rentals.

Many of you live in condos, and have probably faced the situation that residents in Paris are dealing with. If you live in a private home, in a gated community, etc, you probably do not realize the impact caused by repeat visitors in even one building. It doesn't matter how respectful tourists are - or think they are - it's the sheer number of them that causes problems.

People who come for extended periods - one month, minimum - would certainly benefit from staying in a rental apartment. The Mayor is working on a plan to permit this, in certain instances - but it will take time. Paris is regulation-bound, and the wheels turn slowly. However, Mayor Hidalgo is serious about the housing issue, and it is not wise to depend on past experiences.

People are always worried about saving money, but anyone visiting for one week will not save a significant amount of money on meals, unless everyone eats all meals in the apartment. It is simply not feasible - or not worth it - to run back and forth all day long to do this, so most people end up eating out more than they had planned to. More money is wasted on food thrown away at the end of the stay than is saved.

There are a few fortunate people who book the same places year-in/year-out, and have good luck doing so. Not everyone will be able to share this experience, and it's important that they know there are other viable alternatives.