St Emilion
 

We have 3 weeks in France next May. After a week in Paris, was thinking of taking TVG to Bordeaux and renting a car somewhere there and griving to St Emilion., then to other places in the Dordogne as yet to be determined, then dropping car and training back to Paris the day before we depart. First of many questions: how much time should we allocate to St. Emilion?

St-Emilion gets mixed reviews on Fodor's in pst posts. Many including some denizens of the area who say in recent years tourisme has taken over the town and basically ruined it - at least in tourist season. I drove to and stayed in St-Emilion in Aug 2007 and really loved the town - its ancient town walls literally had vineyards practically right up to them in every direction. And the town even seemed a bit sleepy. But we arrived in late afternoon and left in morning so maybe just missed the onslaught of tourists and tour buses.

So, it could that Jekyll and Hyde type town that is best savored by staying the night so you can see it and the distance vineyards on all sides without mobs of tourists - to me at that time St-Emilion was one of my very favorite stops of several in the Dordogne or is it the Bordeaux region. We had a swimming pool at the local municipal camping that sat above the vineyards that stretched for miles in all directions. Surreal is that warm August sun.

I did not visit any wineries and doing that could be neat too.

Local resident St-Cirq will give you the full dope on St-Emilion of today.

St Emilion is quite touristy - with a definite wine focus. Some people love it & others hate it. We were a little "tired" of the wine shops & tourists after about 2 hours of walking around. We stayed overnight. If you are wine enthusiasts and want to do some tasting - then a longer visit would be fine. I would not use it as a "base", however.



Stu Dudley

The town is built into a cliff with the railway at the bottom and very steep hill past inumerable wine shops to the top where there are more wine shops and a small cloister. The views from the top can be good and because the cliff forms a bowl it is possible to scoot to the west and take some nice photos of the main village. Crowds for sure.

I might go in the evening however there are plenty of famous wine towns/villages in the area which are a bit nicer to visit/stay. For instance the tiny hamlet of Montbazillac not much to look at but the chateau visit is nice with similar fine views from above the haha and a nice little restaurant in the old centre or two. Bergerac of course suffers a fair bit from tourism but is more of a town with a medievel centre. Royan is especially nice with a fortress and a Blaye communal wine shop while i also like Cadillac. Finally you could seek a Bastide town. (google it)

We visited St Emilion as a day trip by train from Bordeaux in early July this year. We really enjoyed our visit to this lovely village. In our experience it was not over run by tourists, except for the area around the tourist office which was busy. The rest of our village walks were often just hubby and I with few other people around.

We arrived about 10.30am and left again around 3.30pm. This gave us enough time to explore independently, enjoy a relaxed lunch, do a tour of the Monolithic Church, wander some more, and enjoy a leisurely glass of wine before heading back to the train station.

<<: how much time should we allocate to St. Emilion?>>

I'm hard-pressed to give it more than 10 seconds.

We've visited St Emilion as a day trip from Bordeaux by train, and found that adequate. I suppose you could break journey there and spend a night en route to the Dordogne, where there is so much more to discover. With 1 week of your 3 weeks already allocated to Paris, you will have your hands full with the Dordogne itself for the balance 2. Incidentally, we were in the Dordogne in May 2017 and my prior post https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...e-lot-1152265/ may be helpful - with lots of input/advice from local experts and forum regulars, including those on this thread.

St Emilion
 

Well, it seems like St Emilion might not be our best choice. How about a train to Brive, renting a car there and basing in one or two places in the general area?

If your real question is "where to base" - it depends on how long you will be visiting the Dordogne region.


1-4 days - just stay hear Sarlat


4-10 days - spend 70% of your time near Sarlat and 30% near St Cere, Carennac, or St Cirq Lapopie.


10-15 days 50% near Sarlat, 30% near Carennac, 20% near Brantome.


You can get to Sarlat from either Toulouse (preferred) or from Bordeaux. You can depart the Carennac area from Brive la Gaillarde.


My wife & I have vacationed for 13 weeks in the Dordogne area plus another 4 weeks just south in the Lot. I developed a 20+ page itinerary that describes our favorite villages, scenic drives, markets, sites, caves, Bastide towns, etc. I've sent my various itineraries to over 6,000 people on Fodors. If you would like a copy, e-mail me at [email protected] & I'll ttach one to the reply e-mail.


Stu Dudley



My w

If you want to go to Dordogne yes picking up car at Brive would be great and then head to Sarlat area - Sarlat is a really nice town that would make a great base - anyway book TGV and other long-distance trains early to nab neat discounted fares - www.oui.sncf official site of French Railways - many recommend also www.trainline.eu - same fares and easier to book for foreigners they say. www.seat61.com has loads of advice on booking own train tickets - general info what to expect on trains - www.ricksteves.com and BETS-European Rail Experts.

If we wished to base in or near Sarlot, would it be best to pick up car in Toulouse, or Brive. Also, how hard would it be to spend a few days in Dordogne and a few in the Pyranees? Have received great advice oo far; thanks all.

What's "a few days?" And where in the vast range of territory that constitutes the Pyrenées?

It's spelled Sarlat. Where you pick up the car depends on where you enter France. If you fly into Toulouse, pick the car up there. If you fly into Bordeaux, pick the car up there. If you fly into Paris and have a choice of places to take a train to, take it to Toulouse if you can, 2nd choice Bordeaux, 3rd choice Brive.

We stayed in S Emillion about ten plus years ago. We did not stay in the Village (which I didn't particularly care about one way or the other). We stayed in hotel with x number of stars that was a mile or so outside of the town. There are a number of such places. It was the highlight of many trips to France and staying in many places.

The reason we loved the accommodations was because the rooms were huge, had two huge bathrooms, a sitting room, outdoor patio and was stunningly beautiful. It was August and hot and they had an in ground pool and we just laid on our backs and floated looking up at the blue skies. The dinner was served on the patio and started at 7 and we didn't finish until midnight. We had unobstructed 360 degree views looking out over miles of vineyards without another building in sight.

We stayed in a similar place, nanabee, about 12 years ago, on the grounds of a small wine chateau that had rooms to let, maybe 20 miles from St-Emilion. We were there (there being Castillon-la-Bataille) to see the recreation of the battle of Castillon, which is one of the most spectacular things one can attend in this region, which we've seen twice since. There are indeed lovely places to stay in the region around St-Emilion even if the village doesn't interest you (as it doesn't me).

Yes I agree St. Cirq that area is so lovely. Makes me want to plan another trip now! :)

St Emillion is worth a visit. We were just there yesterday and it wasn’t crowded with tourists. I think it is a charming little town. Be ready to fall in love, Dordogne is absolutely gorgeous! I wish we allotted three weeks here instead of two.

I loved St. Emilion. It was a day trip from Bordeaux and that was enough as I didn't take any vineyard tours. FWIW, here's my TR-just search for St. E:

https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...deaux-1096742/

As frequently happens to those who live near "tourist destinations" in their country, the appeal of such places wears thin quickly. BUT to visit Dordogne, I would think you're doing yourselves a great disservice to skip St. Emilion. We took the train from Paris to Bordeaux, spent 3 nights there, touring the best of the best wineries -- Margaux, Lafite Rothschild -- loving Bordeaux before crossing the river and having lunch, ambling around St.E for a few hours before continuing on to Sarlat, where we spent 5 nights. Had a wonderful lunch at L'Envers du Decor, it was rather hot, not terribly crowded, and yes, parking was difficult but not unusual for us who are used to living in a major metropolitan area. Sarlat provided an excellent base, we then travelled east and south with couple nights here and there, before another stop in Toulouse, then over to Provence. Allow St. E a half-day.

Well, the appeal of Sarlat hasn't worn thin for me after 27 years. And Périgueux gets more wonderful every year.

It is possible to get confused, neither St Emilion not Bordeaux are in the Dordogne, while places like Margaux (the Aoc and the Chateau) are in the Haut Medoc with very different geography to St Em. I'd prefer to be in Dordogne for a trip than a lot of Bordeaux if I was going there as a general tourist..

We drove from Paris to St. Emilion and stayed at the Grand Barrail, which is about 20 mins outside of St. Emilion as I recall. We drove into St. Emilion for lunch several times and spent the rest of the time just wondering among the various vineyards in the area. We spent 5 days in all and enjoyed the time.

https://grand-barrail.com/

Shows how opinions differ.

i wouldn’t spend 10 seconds in Sarlat again.

In summer, it is mobbed by families pouring out of the camp sites of the Dordogne. They are serviced by shops, in which I struggled to spend a single euro. Sorry, we did buy ice creams. The cafes and restaurants all seemed to have pictures of food outside which is always a bad sign for our family.

Saint Emilion is an immaculate but equally mobbed small town. There’s enough to keep anyone interested for half a day even without venturing into the vineyards. There’s a large number of wine shops, many are very helpful and the one I visited after a 15 minutes chat just cracked open a bottle of Troplong Mondot which was really good of them.

If you want to be a film star on the cheap, the Michelin 2 star Hostellerie de Plaisance is legendary and has been about for years. Chateau Pavie bought it recently but it still offers a 7 course tasting menu for lunch which is e65. In view of the preparation processes going into the food, it is the bargain of a lifetime and simply the best food I have ever tasted. The views from their terrace are stunning.

For a middle range lunch, Le Terrace Rouge is the restaurant of one of my favourite wine, La Dominique. It’s in the middle of the vineyards and has a raised restaurants which floats above the vines. The foods OK, the wine is good, the views are stunning.

If if you are in the area, Castillon just to the East is the new in left bank wine. The merlot is grown on the same ridge as Chateau Pavie and Ausone, the latter will set you back e1000 a bottle. The terroir is similar, the aspect the same, although not as hilly, SOME of the e10 bottles are not far short in qualityof the stratospherically priced Saint Emilion premier Grand Cru Bs.

If if you want to see the idiosyncratic nature of wine growing and the supposed difference in terroir, go to Pomerol over the hill from Sant Emilion. A vineyard knocks out wine for e10 a bottle, it’s good.
Next door (100m away) are the fields of Petrus which lays claim to the only blue clay in the area and sells for e2000 a bottle.

Is there substance behind the prices or just myth ?

Who knows?

I’ve never drunk Petrus!

“I wouldn’’t spend 10 seconds in Sarlat again.”

I was was so excited to see Sarlat but was disappointed. Not what I was expecting.

We were in Bordeaux for two days just two months ago. We found it impossible to make reservations to visit the great wineries on our own, either by pre-booking on our own or through the tourist office when we arrived. Since we plan to go back again soon, can you tell me how you were able to do it? Thanks for your help.

Not sure what you mean about how it was impossible to "prebook" which I guess means to make an appointment. DO you mean you called and couldn't get an appt? Did they say why, was it just too late or the wrong day or did you not call until you got to Bordeaux instead of doing so in advance? Chateau Margaux, gives you a number and tells you to call to make an appt, for example. Lafite R also gives specific instructions
Château Lafite Rothschild | Domaines Barons de Rothschild (Lafite)

CHÂTEAU MARGAUX | Contact

Booking chateau; it depends, and Christina gives a good example of one. I must go to Bordeaux every 3 years or so. Certain wineries are open to book, but you need to do it well in advance and prefereably backed by an email from your wine merchant or your nation's importer (pretty easy to get, but it shows you have a real interest), alternativly you can ask Tourist Info for the AoC to organise it, perhaps for a small "pourboire" and this should be done with a fair bit of notice, then you can go to some wineries via a paid for tour (let us say, on the day) but normally with a bit of booking and of course you can ask your hotel/chateau to book something for you. I guess it is obvious that for some chateau the earning potential of their staff (for the chateau) makes touring tourists little interest, but of course some 4th or 5th Growths have installed shops and do the whole wine-gate thing.

It all sounds a bit snob and can be, certainly I enjoy visiting French vinyards and find the Bordeaux crowd a bit... focused on making money (and they do it very well) rather than making wine, though they do that as well :-)

So it takes time and patience to do what you plan, but the effort can be worth it. I'd focus at those that want you to visit and 4th and 5th growths. I'd also look further afield like Bergerac, Monbaziallac, Bourg, Blaye, Cadillac etc (forgive the spelling, life is too short and it is after 6pm)

Burta

Why a great vine yard?

You will be visiting a corporate marketing machine which, as Bilbo points out, has a sole aim of producing wine which is clearly better than others you can buy for say e10 but in absolutely no way justifies the ludicrous price they are demanding. As part of the branding process you will probably encounter a young (ish) public relations officer who may as well be a computer generation.

For a real and fun view of the wine growing process why not just do some research, Tripadvisor is a good resource. Find a small independent wine grower with at the right time of year. They are probably bored senseless waiting for somebody to entertain. Look for someone with a background in academic Viticulture and Oenology. They give you a far more in-depth view of the whole process and they probably offer you more passion for their product than the recognisable corporate enterprises, you will learn far more.

I for one loved Sarlat and yes came in from a nearby camping - it was about ten years ago and maybe more mobbed than now but mobbed even then I personally like to have a lot of folks out strolling at night - lots of outdoor restaurants from which to watch the maddening crowds pass by but I am probably the exception in that I rather like tourist mob scenes - people watching at its best and a multi-national flood - give me that over a quiet city or town where streets are deserted at night anytime. Folks who don't like tourist mobs should avoid the Dordogne and southern France all together in summer.

One interesting thing while were just roaming around was a guy on a big, tall tractor that straddled the vines . . I stopped the car and watched him for a bit and to my surprise, he stopped the tractor and dismounted it. Walked over and asked if I had any questions.

My French is pretty ragged, but he took me to the tractor and explained how it beat the hell out of the vines and then vacuumed up what fell out, straining out the stems and leaves and moving the (mostly) grapes to a vat that would later be emptied into a cart to be taken to the winery.

He then invited me to ride with him to see how it works . . the engineer in me could not pass on that chance so I got on and we did a few rows. It just made my day!

Sarlat is not "mobbed" except in July and August. And there is much more to it than the medieval center and La Traverse, which is all the average visitor takes in.

As for vineyards, there are loads and loads of them outside the hoity-toity circle of big-name Bordeaux chateaux that are far more interesting to visit, and far easier to make an appointment with. Go to any regional market and talk to the wine merchants there, or visit one of the special marchés des vins and do the same: Chateau de la Lambertie, Chateau de la Jaubertie, Chateau de Tiregand, Chateau de la Dame Blanche, Chateau de Mazivert..............there are literally dozens and dozens of such chateaux that will welcome you to their vineyards (except during the peak of the vendange, I imagine) and give you a tour. But you DO need to call or talk to the proprietors in advance.

Sorry about misspelling Sarlat; must have been thinking about The Lot Valley. Will probably split time between Sarlat area and St Circ. Can anyone recommend a nice place to stay in the area? Also, how difficult of a drive would it be from there to the Tarn Gorge?

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. We were on a cruise, and even for a tour price of $400 there were only 11 spots for a shipful of people, so months ahead of time we attempted to make reservations on our own. On the website for Chateau Margaux that is listed, a note says that tasting is offered only to "professionals". For Chateau Lafite Rothchild, appointments were simply not available. So I wondered how Alice made these arrangements so that we could try again. Have you actually been successful making such arrangements yourself?

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. We were on a cruise, and even for a tour price of $400 there were only 11 spots for a shipful of people, so months ahead of time we attempted to make reservations on our own. On the website for Chateau Margaux that is listed, a note says that tasting is offered only to "professionals". For Chateau Lafite Rothchild, appointments were simply not available. So I wondered how Alice made these arrangements so that we could try again. Have you actually been successful making such arrangements yourself?

We have been to France many times, and have stayed in this region before. We are not wine snobs--just love wine. In addition to the many wineries we have been to, my husband simply wanted to visit some famous wineries. We attempted to book months in advance without success, then made a final attempt to do so again when we arrived. I was hoping that someone who had actually been successful making such arrangements might be able to give me some insight. My husband does speak French, so it as not a language problem when he called personally.

<<Will probably split time between Sarlat area and St Circ>>

Are you referring to St-Cirq-Lapopie?

IMO, the Sarlat area merits a lot more time than the area around St-Cirq-Lapopie. A full day is really all you need to visit the town and the nearby Pech-Merle cave.
From Sarlat I would head down through Gourdon (nice town) and Labastide-Murat to Cahors (not a whole lot going on there, but do see the famous "devil's bridge" and eat at La Balandre). Then a short hop east to Cabrerets and St-Cirq-Lapopie. Nearby Figeac (La Dinée du Viguier is a justifiably famous restaurant) and Villefranche-de-Rouergue are worth visiting. A little farther afield are St-Antonin-Noble-Val, Cordes-sur-Ciel, and Castelnaud de Montmiral. But really, all this can (probably should) be saved for a separate trip. There is more than enough to keep you well occupied for a full two weeks in the Périgord, and while Pech-Merle is an outstanding cave, St-Cirq-Lapopie is really just another hill town (if you see Domme, you don't need to go all that way to see it again).

If you do head to St-Cirq-Lapopie, though, I would stay at the Auberge de la Sagne, a couple of kms away.

burta, if you aren't wine snobs you'd probably enjoy the places bilbo and I have mentioned a lot more than a stuffy tour of the Big Name Bordeaux wineries, and maybe learn more, too. And your wallet will breathe a sigh of relief when it comes time for the obligatory end-of-tour purchase.

If you don't succeed in getting an appointment at one of the big chateaux, you might enjoy this: Le Bar à Vin - Bordeaux

Some years ago while traveling with good friends who had spent over 40 years in France and were much more connoisseurs of wine than we were, we stopped at one of the so-called caves and the wine maker brought all of us into his barn where he passed around several bottles for tasting. Certainly not the best of wine but very drinkable. I loved the casual atmosphere and felt it was a much better experience certainly more fun than touring the usual popular wineries.