Spanish Monarch to abdicate
 

http://news.uk.msn.com/world/king-ju...-to-abdicate-1

What effect if any will this have in Spain?

None.

We have a friend in the new Podemos movement who she is thrilled. The abdication has also given some new energy for left wing groups to push for a referendum to abolish the monarchy.

But in terms of being a tourist-none.

Probably none...I´m getting dozens of funny jokes on my whatsapp...and that´ll probably be it. In any case, I do think we should vote on Monarchy Yes/No. I´m personally against.

About as much effect as last years abdications had on the Netherlands and Belgium probably.
Expect the Red Tops to be full of the glamorous new Queen.

For a tourist - none at all.

For what type of government Spaniards want - that's up to them.

I kind of like the european pattern of a hereditary head of state (with an elected head of government) - as long as they don;t cost a fortune - think they and their palaces are a good draw for tourism.

I suppose it is good for tourism in some places --mainly England, I don't think anyone goes to a lot of those countries because of royalty (like Netherlands or Norway). And in some sense, having a royal head like that makes the politicians more serious, I think. I know people are always somewhat interested in the spouses and families of presidents or prime ministers, but not as much as in countries without royalty, it seems to me.

I dislike the whole concept of royalty myself, and the idea that these countries still have kings and queens in this era. Maybe it made sense in the Middle Ages. And I know the British royal family still makes a lot of money from those estates (duchies)which are exempt from tax. I think that is outrageous, even if Prince Charles has voluntarily paid some tax for some time now, but they didn't used to, and legally, he doesn't have to. The British Royal family is quite expensive, more than any other European monarchy, I believe.

The Dutch Royal family is more expensive than the British, and they don't pay tax.
Many of the monarchies are actually very young in historical terms. Spain especially so.

Seen together with the Spanish EU parliament elections a week ago, where the two main parties PP (center-right) and PSOE (center-left) for the first time in democracy got less than 50 % of the vote, this can be seen as part of a more general trend of heavy and increasing criticism of the past 35 years Spanish democratic political establishment. Guardian's Madrid correspondent for many years Giles Tremlett is always well informed and use to offer interesting perspectives: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ain-abdication

El País, "Spain’s two-party system dealt major blow in EU elections": http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/05/26/...98_896523.html

I didn't really think that there would be any difference from a tourism point of view, too many euros involved.

My question was more from a Spanish life point of view. I was interested to know if politically and culturally it would make much difference.

Let's take a break for this monarchy joke.

Prince Charles and Lady Camilla are involved in a passionate moment in bed when Camilla screams, "Oh, Charles! You're the king! The king!"

Charles abruptly stops the proceedings and says, "Finally, my mother is dead."

What I know now is that in most major cities people are demonstrating asking for the return of the Republic. Thousands. In Bilbao, where I live, around 5000. Many more in Madrid and Barcelona. Probably irrelevant, but it may be the beginning of something.

I just took a look at El Pais....it seems 20.000 in Madrid asking for a referendum.

"Varios miles de ciudadanos se manifiestan a esta hora en decenas de ciudades españolas a favor de la república y para reclamar un referéndum en el que el pueblo decida si quiere que continúe o no la monarquía tras la abdicación del Rey. La protesta, difundida a través de las redes sociales, es especialmente numerosa en Madrid: en la Puerta del Sol hay concentradas al menos 20.000 personas según fuentes policiales, informa Jesús "

I don't know why, but I am surprised.

<I was interested to know if politically and culturally it would make much difference.>

I think it's more of a symptom of a growing protest towards the Spanish political elites in general that has been going on for some three years now. King Juan Carlos, who played an important role in the transition to democracy after Franco, is intimately connected to the past 35 years Spanish democratic political establishment. But now more and more Spanish see the king and the traditional political elites as two sides of the same corrupt coin. The huge demonstrations all over Spain tonight calling for the return of the republic that mikelg talks about is an expression of this growing protest.

Danon,


"I just took a look at El Pais....it seems 20.000 in Madrid asking for a referendum....I don't know why, but I am surprised."


So am I. Probably because it brings back shadows of the bloody Spanish Civil War between the Royalist and Republicans which still casts an ugly shadow on the country.

Lateday

I think that is a bit of overstatement. There not a hint of a civil war. This is more a symbolic issue since there is 25% unemployment with over 50% among the young. With that type of unemployment is easy to have large demonstrations. Just last week there were violent protests in Barcelona about squatters losing a building.

There have been larger demonstrations over the past few years regarding the economic consitions. In Madrid in this March, for example, 100 protestors were hurt during anti-austerity marches where people came from other regions.

Please can we get back to the more interesting subject of tourism?

Ribe

Someone asked a question. And to me traveling is much more than seeing sights, hotels, and restaurants, it is learning about a country past and present.

Hi IMDonehere,

I did not mean to suggest that there would be a civil war again, just that some of those past wounds have not healed from what I have read.

For example that Valley of the Fallen monument (a testament to Franco's meglomania) which I visited in 2000 is restricted as a tourist site now I believe.

Vincenzo

Let me know when you get to the punch line.

I thought a horse joke was coming.

Lateday, the Valley of the Fallen is fully open to the public, no changes since your visit.

As per the healed wounds...well...it´s the traditional controversy between left and right in Spain, probably as everywhere else. But I guess most Spaniards are on the center, a bit to the left or a bit to the right. What makes it to the news is the extremes, though.

Living here now for over 40 years it is worrisome that organized massive protests are really taking force. Civil war? not exactly but definitely a different approach to getting what you want than other democratic countries. I think there is opposition to monarchies in many western democratic countries but are any as visibly organized and demanding as the Spanish one is proving to be?

Be prepared for more protests of all types. Barcelona is a hot bed now. The destruction of private and public property by these protesters who, BTW, come from other parts of Spain and EUROPE to support the movement, is the ugly side of the new system they have of forcefully getting what they want. I find this VERY worrisome.

Fortunately, both major political parties seem to be trying to have common ground lately to help create a buffer in Spanish society, as these protesters and destroyers are definitely NOT the majority, but are making a LOT of noise and damage in a very violent, undemocratic way.

Lincasanova...a 25% unemployment rate, 55% for those under 30, approx same for over 45...higher taxes and less rights every year...I don´t know, but there´s probably ground for massive protests against those ruling this formerly rich country...

Of course it is dire now.. but the king does not govern this country and many of the other protests are about independence.

Since the two major political parties in Spain took a serious blow in the recent EU elections (first time the center-right PP and center-left PSOE together got under 50% in any elections), the abdication of the ever more unpopular king (closely linked to the traditional PP and PSOE establishment), might make more likely some much needed political reforms in the wake of economic crisis, housing crisis, sky high unemployment, corruption scandals etc. etc. Juan Carlos also suggested in his speech that a new generation was now needed to face the challenges.

As this commentator in El Pais said, the abdication might then prove to be Juan Carlos last service to the Spanish Democracy:
http://politica.elpais.com/politica/...45_221676.html

" in most major cities people are demonstrating asking for the return of the Republic"

Where's the evidence for that?

Demonstrations with banners saying ""España, mañana, será republicana" (note spelling) absolutely <b>isn't</b> "the return of the Republic"

Calling for the abdication of the monarch is an understandable, if politically illiterate, reaction to Spain's economic mismanagement by its politicians. In its political illiteracy, perfectly compatible with most other posturing self-indulgences by Spain's voters.

Calling for the return of the Republic (which has a very precise and chilling meaning in Spain) means something completely different. Does the poster really think there's pressure for that? Because if there is, someone's been very skilled in keeping it out of the media.

Well...if demonstrating with republican flags is not asking for the return of the Republic, I don´t know what it is then...Monarchy was reinstored in 1978, but previous to the dictatorship of Franco we had a Republic, the 2nd...so I guess that it´s correct, people were demonstrating in favor of a 3rd Republic.

Or maybe should I have said, "the return of -A- Republican regime?" I´m sorry, but I´m not a native English speaker.

Do I think there´s pressure for that? Certainly, but not enough yet.

I see no shadows of the Civil War in this protest ( although, those shadows have not left
Spain by a long shot).
Several friends we have in Madrid ( well off professionals) expressed very little love for the Monarchy
when we approached the subject last year.

What would be wrong with the 3rd Republic anyway?

(in fact, I know no one supporting the Monarchy...but that may mean little too)

<Calling for the abdication of the monarch is an understandable, if politically illiterate, reaction to Spain's economic mismanagement by its politicians>

Very few, if any, Spanish have called for the abdication of Juan Carlos as a reaction to Spain's economic mismanagement by its politicians. The often quite massive protests over the three past years have been directed towards the politicians, but Juan Carlos has been a strong symbol of the political establishment since the transition in the late 70's.

Now, many are calling for a "transición real, sin rey", meaning a real transition from the dictatorship, and this time without king. Note that "transición real", real transition also can mean "kingly transition". Nobody beats the Spanish when it comes to making political - and other - posters and slogans.

... royal transition would of course be a much better English translation of the double meaning of "transicion real"/real transition. Not much political illiteracy here...

kimhe,
thanks for explaining the nuances of Spanish to the rest of us (who are not fluent). Very clever!
What purpose serves the Monarchy these days eludes me.

One friend in Spain has changed her profile image on FB to the flag of the Republic. Juan Carlos is embroiled in a financial scandal. He also killed an elephant on safari a couple of years ago which re-affirmed his sensibility to a different era.

As Kimhe noted, anger has being brewing for years due primarily to high unemployment. The unemployment is a new psychological situation where there a great part of a new generation of university educated people but without work.

"As Kimhe noted, anger has being brewing for years due primarily to high unemployment. The unemployment is a new psychological situation where there a great part of a new generation of university educated people but without work."

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the King and everything to do with numpty individuals borrowing silly amounts of money from greedy banks who queued up to lend it to them. Throw in property developers building enough property to house all of China and local governments like Valencia acting as if they were some sort of Middle East oil rich state and you see why there is no capital left to invest for the future.

<Which has absolutely nothing to do with the King and everything to do with numpty individuals borrowing silly amounts of money from greedy banks who queued up to lend it to them>

An important part of the story and the name of the game not only here.

King Juan Carlos has gotten a bad name indeed because of the financial scandal and the elephant 'adventure'.
Prince Felipe has the benefit of the doubt and may bring a breathe of fresh air to the Spanish monarchy. Just as in Belgium, and in the Netherlands. It's time for a younger generation.
I wonder whether there will be any festivities on the 18th.

Mikelg,

"Lateday, the Valley of the Fallen is fully open to the public, no changes since your visit."

Sorry, I was misinformed. Thank you for the clarification. Is it still a popular site for foreign travelers?

I was in Spain in 2000 and again in 2006. On my latter visit I could not get over how well the country appeared to be doing economically - especially the roads in northern Spain and construction sites and cranes everywhere. Then the crash - with resultant unemployment particularly for the young. Sad...

Yes, there were greedy developers, bankers and politicians who contributed to the
present economic situation.
In all of that, I cannot but marvel at the excellent public transit, roads, airports and other infrastructure
one often finds in Spain.

Right, all that was paid for by Northern Europe. If the Basque country and Catalunya were to sepate from Spain, there would be nothing left but flamenco and great highways .