Spain & France Trip Itinerary
 

Planning a trip to Spain and France in May/June 2022. My wife and I are 60ish and both very active. I have been to Spain before (20 years ago) and my wife has not. Neither of us has been to France. We are foodies, wife is a chef, and wine lovers. Much of the trip will be centered around this, but we love history, architecture, wandering aimlessly and people watching. We will probably fly out of either Atlanta, which is the closest major airport to us, or maybe NY, depending on what type of deal we can get on business or 1st class tickets. Here is my initial itinerary thoughts. Would love any and all comments. Is very hard to get hotel rates right now due to covid, so please make recommendations. Not into 5 star hotels, and prefer to stay in old city centers
Day 1- Fly to Barcelona
Days 2,3,4,&5- Barcelona (possible cooking class, lots of tapas and wine, major sites)
Day 6- Train to San Sebastian
Days 7,8,& 9- San Sebastian (another cooking class, lots of pinxtos and wine)
Day 10- Rent car, drive to Laguardia
Days 11,12,13 & 14- Laguardia- as a base for winery tours
Day 15- Back to San Sebastian and train to Bordeaux France
Days 16, 17,18,19- Bordeaux- as a base for wine tours and because I have fallen in love with Bordeaux from what I have seen and read on the internet)
Day 20- Train to Paris
Days 21,22,23,24- Paris
Day 25- Fly home

Thanks in advance for your responses

Nice plan, especially the 2022 date. You have successfully avoided short stays and an expensive cross-border car rental. My only mild criticism comes from my experience also as a wine aficionado and foodie, with similar itineraries albeit in other wine regions. You seem to be expecting to do many winery tours. After the third tour consisting of a look at the vines, seeing vats and barrels in buildings and cellars, followed by a taste or two, you have seen everything everywhere. Yes, a champagne winery or a port distillery will be different, but that's it. Now, should a winery have a tour of a nice chateau, that would be a different matter.

So, as you plan consider what else you will have to do in wine country besides wine. Perhaps some flexibility will serve you well. And any days shortened in the middle of your trip could be added to Paris.

Thanks for your input
Only planning 2 days at wineries while in Roja and 2 days at wineries while in Bordeaux. Rest of time will be for sightseeing, wandering, relaxing.

Tapas aren't native to Barcelona. Just like the Flamenco you'll find isn't really local. Tapas are more a Seville thing.

Right now not much point even thinking about hotels. Who know which will manage to survive.

In Bordeaux you might be interested in this shop for cognac: COGNAC ONLY - BOUTIQUE

Near the Opéra there are several tasting rooms that will offer Bordeaux wines from a wide variety of vintners.

https://flic.kr/p/a6XAgS

I have a diploma in wnie appreciation and spend a fair few holidays in both the areas you mention. In Barcelona the likes of Torres and Freixenet (lots of Cava production in their town) are walk ups and are easy to access by train (Torres needs a short walk or taxi).

Rioja the visits nearly always need a booking (they will have English tours), while walk-ups are tricky to find you can but a bit of a waste of holiday time. I like Haro as a centre but your suggestion is fine. You will need a car to access most. You will also find that Spanish bars often sell Grand Reservas at dirt cheap prices so don't ignore the seediest bar, it often has treasure inside.

Bordeaux area is a fair bit more complicated. Yes there are tourist tastings around the place but if you want the real deal then you need a serious booking especially if you want to visit any of the 5th growths, serious booking at the best needs a recommendation from your wine wholesaler If you do a tour you will be dragged around the usual tourist sites with long stays in the chateau shop.

Food; you will not go hungry.

I would rent the car in Barcelona and drive to the Rioja. I am guessing you mean Logroño? After leaving Barcelona, you could taste wine near Lleida at Castell de Remei.. They have a finca you may be able to stay in.

https://www.castelldelremei.com/en/

I think 2 or 3 nights are plenty in the Rioja. We stayed in Abalos at Hotel Villa de Abalos. It is a very small town, but we could walk to several small wineries for tasting. My husband is a wine grape grower, and the next morning he went with the hotel owner to look at vineyards.

https://hotelvilladeabalos.com/en/

From there, I would head to San Sebastián and drop your car.

You can check my trip report from 2006. It is old but may be helpful.

I went to Spain a few years ago and had a wonderful time! Barcelona was especially fun. The historic Gothic Quarter would check off a lot of your boxes. Then of course there's the Sagrada Familia. A walk down Las Ramblas is full of endless nooks and crannies to discover with many cafes for people watching. There are some seranno ham tasting experiences that you may be interested in. I hope you enjoy your trip!

Thanks Biloxi
In Barcelona, will probably remain in the city for our stay there. Will need to get over the jet lag, etc.
Can you recommend any good wine bars, been a long time since I was there.
In Rioja, I will have a car. I have looked at Haro, but not sure where I want to base myself yet.
In Bordeaux I know I will need reservations for the wineries. What do you mean by 5th growth. Is that an old growth vine? What are your favorite wineries here and also in Rioja?

5th Growth

The core of the best wines in Bordeaux fall into lots of catagories. The most expensive of which are the "Growth" system. This dates back to 187? and while it is possible to change levels (1 to 5) it is very rare. These wines are generally the best that Bordeaux has to offer and the whole practise of selling them is a bit arcane. The actual businesses are very very impressive. I'd have a bit of a read around (wiki will do). Getting into first Growths is just about impossible and tourism can be very constrained all the way down to level 5. In my last visit I stayed in a 5th Growth (now sold to the Chinese) and they rang a friend who rang a friend to get me into some great vinyards.

My favorite Medoc (this a physical region within Bordeaux) has Margaux and Pauillac (mini regions) and within them you will find a fair few Growths. Covid may have knocked tourism back but I'd start by looking at the Pauillac tourism website https://www.france-voyage.com/cities...illac-7547.htm you can email them and ask for what tours they are doing. There is normally someone on duty who speaks good English and their guide leaflets are very good. My favorite???? sorry you have to find your own way as my wallet does not have a favorite. Other visits can be to other subregions of which St Emillion is set up to scalp the tourist best. The incredibly steep walk up from the rail station is lined with luxury. Probably worth the walk for the view, the church and any photo shots from the west wide at the top looking back at the town.

My other interest in this area are sweet white wines. Two sub regions come to mind, 1) the line of such wines as Cadillac, Barsac etc and you can taste pretty well in each town's "Maison du vin", 2) the astounding Monbazillac which is just south of Bergerac (just outside Bordeaux region). The town of Monbazillac is tiny (maybe 100 houses) and the coop owns the Chateau. You have to pay for a tasting (not often the case in France) but worth it to see what they do. There is a Michelin one star in town but cross the road and walk a few paces back into town and there is a real gem "La Maison Vari" of a local lunchtime place offering family cooked food.

Rioja; in the UK Rioja is very cheap and far better value that Bordeaux. Many of the Rioja wine makers are descendants of Bordeaux French who came here after phylloxera hit. Haro does not have any of the spectacular architect design wineries in town (they are more to the east). What it does have is a collection of wineries down by the railhead (literally "down" as the town is up a steep hill above the railway). The best is probably Muga but Lopez de Heredia and Rioja Alta are pretty good too. Haro main square sits on the main street and anywhere on these two areas you can find bars or more tourist focused places. Bars in Haro are more for working men so a bit more toothpicks on the floor and cold chips but the snacks will be clean.

Barcelona Wine Bars. I'd buy the latest Rough Guide, the details on bars are always good.

Fifth Growth refers to the 1855 Classification, which is a traditional rating of Bordeaux vineyards. See:
https://www.winespectator.com/articl...ification-3491

My long description seems ot have gone into Fodors Purgatory.

Bordeaux makes dry reds and sweet whites (mainly) the best Reds come from Margaux and Pauillac. Easy access from the Pauillac from the Tourist Info office (ggogle it). The better catagories see Peabody link are hard to get into unless you know someone who knows someone. I used to stay in a wine Chateau and get mine host to book me into the better ones.

Sweet wines mainly come from Cadillac or Loupiac along the river where the damp mornings bring out the noble rot. Tastings in the Maisons du vins

Montbazillac south of Bergerac is another type of sweety and you get 3 glasses for about 12 Euro at the Chateau. Lunch is fantastic at La Maison Vare' not Bordeaux but worth a little exploration.

Haro, the area around the railway head houses all the Bodegas. Muga is the obvious star but you might also like Rioja Alta or the Lopez de Heredia'.

We did a trip in summer 2016 from NYC to Paris/Bordeaux/Barcelona/Madrid. About 3 or 4 days in each city. Lots to do and see with easy plane and train connections. No driving required. Bordeaux is a particularly easy place to visit with high speed train access to Paris and inexpensive short flights to Barcelona (and probably other places). Likewise, train service between Madrid and Barcelona is a breeze. I know you are interested in the San Sebastian area of France but if you want to consider part of his itinerary, feel free to check out my travel blog post at https://travelfam.wordpress.com/cate...ce-spain-2016/

While in San Sebastian, don't forget to visit Bilbao for a day. We loved the vibrancy of the city even more than the beauty of San Sebastian.

Many thanks for the detailed info about the Bordeaux and Rioja regions bilbo. High up on my wishlist for late spring 2022, bookmarked! 👍

My husband and I had a somewhat similar, although reversed, itinerary in late September/early October of 2017. Our focus was wine, food and photography. We flew to Bordeaux (short layover in Paris) and stayed a week in an apartment there. The Cité du Vin was well worth our time and something any wine lover would enjoy. We used the tram system in Bordeaux various times and found it efficient. We did a day trip by train to Saint-Émilion including a ride on their little tourist train that stops at a couple of wineries. The town and tour of the monolithic church was enjoyable even though crowded. I could have done without the day we did a Garonne river cruise but part of that was due to the poor weather we had that limited my photography. The highlight was a private wine tour through Bordeaux with Elodie. We did three winery visits including Château Pontet-Canet and had lunch in Saint-Julien. The whole day was tailored to our wine and photography interests. We had a car in Bordeaux, but I wouldn’t rent one if we were to return. The only time I appreciated it was when we did a day trip to the Beynac/Dordogne area, had a beautiful boat ride, lunch by the river and toured the Museum of Medieval Warfare at Chateau de Castelnaud. (Definitely need to spend a week in that area!)

We took the train to the France Spain border and rented a car at the San Sebastian airport. We drove to Haro for 4 nights at the Los Agustinos hotel. We loved the hotel, its food and its service. The earlier part of our days were for winery visits, LaGuardia, Vivanco wine museum, etc. and then we’d walk down to a tasting room near the rail station. On those warm beautiful fall weekend evenings, it seemed the entire town was out in the main square, often with what seemed to be 4 generations of families. The locals were very welcoming. We really loved Haro and plan to return for a longer visit.

I disagree with the poster who said that winery tours all begin to look alike. I’ll never forget the bio-dynamic practices at Pontet-Canet, the amazing castle at La tour de Carnet, the cooperage at Muga, the wine “cemetery” tunnels at Cune or the completely vertical, gravity-based system at Baigorri. (Their wine-paired lunch was also wonderful.) Since harvest was in full swing during many of our tours, that added a whole new element I hadn’t experienced like that before.

The rental car was dropped off in San Sebastian, where we stayed 4 nights at Hotel Niza. After thoroughly enjoying the city, pintxos and wine there, we flew out of Bilbao. We stayed one night near the airport before our flight so did have an afternoon in that lovely city and visited the Guggenheim.

You’ll have a great trip! If you haven’t discovered them yet, be sure to look up Maribel’s guides of the area.

<<Bordeaux area is a fair bit more complicated. Yes there are tourist tastings around the place but if you want the real deal then you need a serious booking especially if you want to visit any of the 5th growths, serious booking at the best needs a recommendation from your wine wholesaler If you do a tour you will be dragged around the usual tourist sites with long stays in the chateau shop.>>

Bilbo, more years ago than I care to remember, DH and I drove down through Bordeaux and somehow found ourselves with doing a tour [in french] of Chateau Lynch-Bages conducted by a girl who by the end of the tour I was convinced was english, which turned out to be correct. The irony of her conducting a tour in french for two english people was lost on none of us. There were however two others on the tour who were french so her language skills were not altogether wasted. Some years later we had the chance to buy some Bordeaux "en primeur" and of course we bought a case of Lynches-Bages, which is what I've been working my way through during various lockdowns. It has certainly aged well - better than me I suspect.

More recently we spent some days in Bordeaux and stayed at Cadillac where we found a room in a lovely hotel just outside the town through the tourist board, which seems to spend a lot of time handing out stamps to "pilgrims" en route to Santiago de Compostella in NW Spain as well as finding accommodation for tourists. They also gave us a map of the area which took us to the extremely new "Maison du Vin" which enabled us to taste loads of different wins of the area, including the sweet Cadillac which I confess I haven't opened yet - it's a lot to have to drink by oneself.

​​​​​​​Which is my way of saying that there is a lot of fun to be had fossicking about in and around Bordeaux, not necessarily in the most famous areas.

Fossicking is the best way

Actually I find the best way to holiday is to cycle. You move only slightly faster than the locals and you can talk to them. One year we cycled through Bordeaux and I had to attend a day's crisis meeting in the UK, so I took a taxi to and from the airport (45 minutes each way really improved my French). Mrs Bilbo on the day without me, found a nice little restaurant. Cycled to it, a storm came upon the town and they stuck her bike in a van and drove her home. One of the better days as it turned out. You never get fun like that if you hire a car.

The funiest evening was at what passes for in France a "spud you like". But being France the potatoe was the size of a man's head. Imagine our surprise when 4 ladies who lunch came and sat next to Mrs B and me wolfing down the carbs. The ladies looked at the menu, both sides, twice and tried to order something that wasn't going straight to the hips. Finally they ordered the child's burger menu each with one bag of chips/fries to share.

Gamely they worked their way through a half burger each before hiding the un-eaten half under a lettuce, while leaving some of the chips.

As a side comment, while Bordeaux wine area is divided into well known subzones, each producing a particular type of wine based on the land, the sun, the humidity,..and so on, it seems that everyone talks about Rioja as just one wine region. Rioja wine region should not be mistaken (as it commonly is) with La Rioja community (Spain is divided into 17 autonomous communities, kind of "States" in the US). Funny enough, La Rioja only grows wine in the northern area and most of its territory is not for wine making, but fruit.

Rioja DOC (Denominación de Origen Calificada, or Qualified Designation of Origin, similar to the AOC in France), is -together with Priorat in Catalonia- the only two qualified DOs in Spain (meaning that the harvests are categorized by an official Regulation Board) and quality requisites are far more strict than in other areas. It is divided into Rioja Alavesa (the Basque part of Rioja), that includes Laguardia (and not LaGuardia) as the main town, but also, Labastida, Elciego, Páganos, Navaridas...; then Rioja Alta, Haro being its capital, just across the river Ebro that separates the Basque Country and La Rioja; and finally Rioja Oriental (or Eastern Rioja, formerly Rioja Baja) and extending also into a small part of Navarra (Navarre). Each area has its own personality and in the Basque part it´s common to see many bottles labelled as Rioja Alavesa (there´s a movement within many wine producers on this area to form their own DOC, separated from Rioja, which is -rather oddly- identified with cheap wine in markets such as the UK and Russia). Each subzone has its own climate (more humid for Rioja Alavesa, much drier in Oriental), terroir, sun hours, orientation, even ways to make wine. To me, as a local Basque, it´s basic to know what Rioja wine I´m drinking, where it comes from and how it´s been produced.

Rioja is also known for a wine but few foreigners know, because it´s not exported, and it´s the most widely produced and most iconic in the area: the "maceración carbónica" wine, or carbonic maceration, where the stems "boil" (ferment) together with the grapes and their skins, as it´s always been the way before the French discovered the oak barrels. It´s considered as the real, traditional wine, no foreign influence of any wood as it´s not kept in barrels, it´s just pure fermented grapes, and all bars offer it. Cheap but excellent, mainly for locals to enjoy it at home or in their socializing in bars (I always have several bottles at home), full of fruity flavors and so different to those (also excellent) wines matured in barrels (which are much more expensive and therefore offered in wine tastings as standard and for sale in the most famous wineries).

Hope the above helps to discover the real Rioja!

<<The funiest evening was at what passes for in France a "spud you like". But being France the potatoe was the size of a man's head. Imagine our surprise when 4 ladies who lunch came and sat next to Mrs B and me wolfing down the carbs. The ladies looked at the menu, both sides, twice and tried to order something that wasn't going straight to the hips. Finally they ordered the child's burger menu each with one bag of chips/fries to share.

Gamely they worked their way through a half burger each before hiding the un-eaten half under a lettuce, while leaving some of the chips.>>

You have to wonder what they were doing there in the first place, Bilbo.

<<Rioja is also known for a wine but few foreigners know, because it´s not exported, and it´s the most widely produced and most iconic in the area: the "maceración carbónica" wine, or carbonic maceration, where the stems "boil" (ferment) together with the grapes and their skins, as it´s always been the way before the French discovered the oak barrels. It´s considered as the real, traditional wine, no foreign influence of any wood as it´s not kept in barrels, it´s just pure fermented grapes, and all bars offer it. Cheap but excellent, mainly for locals to enjoy it at home or in their socializing in bars (I always have several bottles at home), full of fruity flavors and so different to those (also excellent) wines matured in barrels (which are much more expensive and therefore offered in wine tastings as standard and for sale in the most famous wineries).>>

What is that most excellent sounding wine called, mikelg? I still harbour hopes that the trip to northern Spain that I was looking forward to this time last year may still materialise in some form or other in the next few years, so it would be nice to know what to ask for!

"What is that most excellent sounding wine called, mikelg? I still harbour hopes that the trip to northern Spain that I was looking forward to this time last year may still materialise in some form or other in the next few years, so it would be nice to know what to ask for!"

This is the wine that most winemakers will ask for at bars during their daily errands with friends, because that´s what they call "wine". It´s a year wine, harvested in October and sold and drunk the year after, which is made putting all the bunches of grapes with stems and grapes. The colour is vivid purple and the taste is...fruit, grape, soil. Not for every palate if used to "crianza" or mature wines, but it´s what they´ve been making for generations before the French changed (almost) everything after the filoxera. It´s called "maceración carbónica" wine, the one I have at home is https://alutizvinos.com/en/comprar-v...ion-carbonica/, normal price of a bottle ranges from 3 to 6 eur. At a bar ask for a "cosechero" or "vino de año". Due to its short conservation time, it´s not exported.

As you may know, we order our wines at bars based not on the brand, not on the grape either, but on the age and maturity of the wine. In Rioja DOC, a red "crianza" has been 12 months in the barrel and another 12 in the bottle, minimum; a "reserva" has been at least 36 months maturing, of which 12 months minimum in a barrel, and we order them by that name, the name of the winery may follow the name "crianza", but normally it´s enough with that. A bar that serves bad wine will close in a very short time, that´s a truth!!

carbonic maceration makes the purplish wine that you will find all across these regions including France. It is a standard method to make a "jammy" wine so think young Beaujolais. It gets a lot of colour extract for only a short period next to the skins (the juice stays in the skins) and it is refreshing if a little simple. But no oak so fine at lunch with water. mikelg knows his stuff.

I´m biased as I was born in Bilbao and there´s a high degree of (friendly) rivalry between these two cities: Donostia-San Sebastian being the jewel of the northern coast of Spain and in a beautiful bay; Bilbao as the center of power and industry (now gone and under a huge transformation into a friendly, clean, livable and monumental city). Pintxos are found all over the Basque Country and it´s not an exclusivity of Donostia-SS, restaurants are equally good but Bilbao is normally cheaper in terms of lodging and food. But credit must be given to SS for being the center of the wonderful Basque gastronomy. SS can be seen and enjoyed in a maximum of two days; Bilbao may deserve the same time. In any case, both are safe, friendly, walkable, livable and food meccas.

Sounds nice (your trip)
 

Your plans sound really nice. I've been to Paris, great culture, museums, etc. Didnt get to go to any vineyards Went to Cannes and Nice.
Loved Barcelona, nice city.

Thanks everyone for your replies. Special thanks to MichelleY- convinced me to rent a car from Barcelona. Also mikelg for your wine advice and Bilbao enthusiasm, and to Bilbo for all your wine advice and laughs. Have adjusted my itinerary slightly. Will rent a car in Barcelona for the Rioja/Northern Spain portion. Drive to Logrono, Haro, Santander, Bilbao and San Sebastian (in that order). Drop the car in San Sebastion and train to Bordeaux. In Bordeaux I am leaning towards not having a car and using public transport and maybe a day trip to St. Emillion for tastings. Will also add at least 1 extra day in Paris which will make the trip about 28 days.
Please keep the replies and advice coming.
Thanks again

In St Emilion don´t miss (tickets well in advance) the impressive monolithic church at the center of town, a huge church excavated on the rock right beneath the town. Well worth the visit. The wines or the visits did not impress me much, but that´s my problem with French wines :). Santander will not impress you much, its old quarter burnt down in the 50s and it´s been substituted by standard houses. Nice beaches and walks (take into account that northern Spain is VERY rainy, being San Sebastian and Santiago de Compostela the rainiest cities in Spain with an average of 185 days a year) , but that´s basically it (unless it´s a starting point to places nearby).

Bilbao (from whence comes Bilbo) is, of course, an extraordinary visit. The best sights are along the river. These start with the Travelator Bridge a fine piece of engineering to the west of town. The old industrial haunts along the river in the centre have been turned into a large walking area with the Guggenheim in prime position,and the river is worth a good walk with snacks and coffee. The Funicular is a nice trip.

I think the best visit is the Fine Art Museum which really does show what the Basques have to give.

In San Sebastián, we did a food and wine tour with Tenedor Tours. It was expensive but worth it and wonderful. We spent the whole day with Gabriella. Besides food and wine, we got some Basque history questions answered as my family was from Navarra. Since then, it appears her company has an expanded offering of options.

https://www.tenedortours.com

Paris (1 day )
 

I recommend the Eiffel tower, Notre Dame and Louvre museum while in Paris (maybe a boat trip along the Seine, which I didnt get to do)


Lynn

You asked for wine bar recs in Barcelona somewhere along the line. I recommend Vinya del Senor right across the street from the Santa Maria del Mar church. Small, two story place with some seating inside and more outside. Nice Spanish wines and good casual vibe. And for great fun, try Quimet and Quimet which accompanies their wines with terrific tinned pintxos, recommended by Tony Bourdain. Oodles of others but both of these are definitely worthy.