Spain: 47% of adults don´t speak a foreign language
Sep 25th, 2009, 04:49 AM
#21
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 555
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I live in the USA.
I had 3 years of Spanish in grade school while living in Costa Rica. Left the country at the age of 10 and never have used it again--I don't remember any of it beyond some individual words.
I had 4 years of German in middle school, high school, and college, and lived in Germany for 2 years. But I haven't had any reason to use it in the past 35 years and can't remember more than a few scattered words and phrases.
I had 2 years of Japanese 30 years ago and lived in the country for 18 months, and, yes, I have never had a reason to use it ever since I left the country, and didn't even have to use it much while there--besides simple greetings and numbers, I remember almost nothing.
I guess all the time and money spent on languages might be worth it for some people, but it's pretty much a waste for most. Keep in mind, I'm referring to actually learning a language, not learning a few important words and phrases for a vacation to help out on the trip and to show respect for the country and people--I think everyone should do that much.
I think the time I spent in school learning languages would have been much better spent on other subjects.
It's almost impossible to predict which students in a country like the USA would benefit from a foreign language, let alone which language would benefit any particular student. Spanish would be the most likely language to be helpful for a citizen of the USA, but the vast majority of most American citizens will never actually need it. Over my lifetime French, Japanese, Russian, Chinese, and Spanish have all been presented as "must have" languages for the future--so far none of them have turned out to be so, at least for Americans.
I would like to see our schools spend more time on the history and cultures and geography of the rest of the world as opposed to learning a language that most of them will never use.
I had 3 years of Spanish in grade school while living in Costa Rica. Left the country at the age of 10 and never have used it again--I don't remember any of it beyond some individual words.
I had 4 years of German in middle school, high school, and college, and lived in Germany for 2 years. But I haven't had any reason to use it in the past 35 years and can't remember more than a few scattered words and phrases.
I had 2 years of Japanese 30 years ago and lived in the country for 18 months, and, yes, I have never had a reason to use it ever since I left the country, and didn't even have to use it much while there--besides simple greetings and numbers, I remember almost nothing.
I guess all the time and money spent on languages might be worth it for some people, but it's pretty much a waste for most. Keep in mind, I'm referring to actually learning a language, not learning a few important words and phrases for a vacation to help out on the trip and to show respect for the country and people--I think everyone should do that much.
I think the time I spent in school learning languages would have been much better spent on other subjects.
It's almost impossible to predict which students in a country like the USA would benefit from a foreign language, let alone which language would benefit any particular student. Spanish would be the most likely language to be helpful for a citizen of the USA, but the vast majority of most American citizens will never actually need it. Over my lifetime French, Japanese, Russian, Chinese, and Spanish have all been presented as "must have" languages for the future--so far none of them have turned out to be so, at least for Americans.
I would like to see our schools spend more time on the history and cultures and geography of the rest of the world as opposed to learning a language that most of them will never use.
Sep 25th, 2009, 05:50 AM
#22
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 49,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<<Unless you are dropped off in a foreign land and forced to speak the new language, you will not learn it.>>
Disagree totally. I was "dropped" off in France after studying the language for 10 years and felt completely comfortable with it. Same with being "dropped off" in Germany and Italy after years of study of those languages. Obviously, I improved with exposure to everyday speaking, hearing, and reading the languages, but good teachers can prepare you very well for the actual experience of using the language. My Arabic teachers were uniformly horrible and did nothing to prepare me for on-the-ground experience on the other hand - though not entirely their fault as regional differences in the spoken language are enormous.
Disagree totally. I was "dropped" off in France after studying the language for 10 years and felt completely comfortable with it. Same with being "dropped off" in Germany and Italy after years of study of those languages. Obviously, I improved with exposure to everyday speaking, hearing, and reading the languages, but good teachers can prepare you very well for the actual experience of using the language. My Arabic teachers were uniformly horrible and did nothing to prepare me for on-the-ground experience on the other hand - though not entirely their fault as regional differences in the spoken language are enormous.
Sep 25th, 2009, 05:50 AM
#23
When my daughter lived in Spain a few years ago her host family spoke no English. The sons were 14 and had been taking English in school for years. They could not speak or understand any English at all.
Sep 25th, 2009, 06:22 AM
#24
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Caroline - a good point. It is a useless fact I read somewhere this last week. Now I think about it it really is useless. It was in a newspaper I think, which has since gone for recycling, so I can't check it - maybe I remembered it wrong?
Anyway I can't see it is an enormous problem not to be able to speak another language. I bet a fair number of those Spaniards will never leave Spain or meet a non Spanish speaker anyway.
And we Brits are useless at languages. I did French to O level but can barely remember it. I never did English grammar, and only learnt Dutch by being totally immersed in it. I started learning Spanish but my poor brain just struggled so much with the Spanish lessons in Dutch that I gave up. I'll just have to move to Spain to learn it.
I wish I'd had better teachers to be honest to have helped me learn French better.
The Dutch like to think they are good at languages but they are not as good as everyone thinks. I know plenty of Dutch people with little or no English and ome think they are good at English but mangle the language terribly.
My sons started English lessons at primary school (not that they needed them of course) and added French and German at secondary school. The older two dropped both French and German as soon as they could, the younger one kept French but dropped German.
My eldest son hated German at school, and the irony is that he now spends most of his working life speaking German, is married to a German and is considering moving to Germany.
Anyway I can't see it is an enormous problem not to be able to speak another language. I bet a fair number of those Spaniards will never leave Spain or meet a non Spanish speaker anyway.
And we Brits are useless at languages. I did French to O level but can barely remember it. I never did English grammar, and only learnt Dutch by being totally immersed in it. I started learning Spanish but my poor brain just struggled so much with the Spanish lessons in Dutch that I gave up. I'll just have to move to Spain to learn it.
I wish I'd had better teachers to be honest to have helped me learn French better.
The Dutch like to think they are good at languages but they are not as good as everyone thinks. I know plenty of Dutch people with little or no English and ome think they are good at English but mangle the language terribly.
My sons started English lessons at primary school (not that they needed them of course) and added French and German at secondary school. The older two dropped both French and German as soon as they could, the younger one kept French but dropped German.
My eldest son hated German at school, and the irony is that he now spends most of his working life speaking German, is married to a German and is considering moving to Germany.
Sep 25th, 2009, 06:24 AM
#25
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 26,710
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My eldest cosuin in Spain is in her 80's and she cannot read or write any language.
Her children who are in the 50's and 60's speak only Spanish.
Their children speak a smattering of different languages, but not well.
You need teachers who are proficient in another language to teach that language correctly. Thus the cycle is improving but will still take time.
Her children who are in the 50's and 60's speak only Spanish.
Their children speak a smattering of different languages, but not well.
You need teachers who are proficient in another language to teach that language correctly. Thus the cycle is improving but will still take time.
Sep 25th, 2009, 06:24 AM
#26
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
53% adults speaking a foreign language seems incredibly high to me - i know in France it is not nearly that high - we are talking about speaking (not reading) a foreign tongue - out of dozens of French i have met thru in-laws, etc very very few speak anything but French.
In Britain the % speaking a foreign language must include the several million immigrant stock who brought their own language with them, not learnt it in schools.
America's % of those speaking foreign language is mainly due to immigrants too as well as second-generation immigrants who retain tongues spoken at home - like my Mom who spoke Czech - but that group is dying out so the % may actually decline
In Britain the % speaking a foreign language must include the several million immigrant stock who brought their own language with them, not learnt it in schools.
America's % of those speaking foreign language is mainly due to immigrants too as well as second-generation immigrants who retain tongues spoken at home - like my Mom who spoke Czech - but that group is dying out so the % may actually decline
Sep 25th, 2009, 07:30 AM
#28
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Americans do not speak Spanish as a second language due to Mexican immigrants -- this statement assumes the high number of Latinos in the US are just Mexican emigres. The Northeast of the US has far more immigrants from Puerto Rico, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and the various Central American nations than Mexican immigrants. Florida has one of the highest concentrations of Latinos in the country but the state's Latino population is from Cuba, the DR, Puerto Rico, not primarily from Mexico.
But in the Southwest, Mexican-Americans are the part of the cultural, political and social fabric of the various states.
But in the Southwest, Mexican-Americans are the part of the cultural, political and social fabric of the various states.
Sep 25th, 2009, 08:51 AM
#31
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 15,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To point the obvious, book knowledge of a foreign language is rather different than the ability to converse in it.
I can read (and order a meal ) in five languages..but carry on a meaningful discussion in all five - not way.
I agree that "living" in the language , even from time to time, makes all the difference.
I can read (and order a meal ) in five languages..but carry on a meaningful discussion in all five - not way.
I agree that "living" in the language , even from time to time, makes all the difference.
Sep 25th, 2009, 09:38 AM
#32
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 20,643
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An American driving through rural Russia stopped to ask for directions. Two Russians only looked at each other when he tried to ask them in English, French, German, Spanish, Italian.
After that American left, one Russian said to the other: "let's make an effort to learn at least one foreign language."
"What for," replied the other, "that American knows so many languages, and what, did it do him any good?"
After that American left, one Russian said to the other: "let's make an effort to learn at least one foreign language."
"What for," replied the other, "that American knows so many languages, and what, did it do him any good?"
Sep 25th, 2009, 10:20 AM
#34
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,844
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think being able to read and write but not speak a foreign language is completely useless. Obviously it's easier to do the former and the latter requires immersion and contact with native speakers.
And let's be clear, learning any foreign language isn't the same as learning a foreign language that makes you more marketable in the job market. Right now, that language is English. Maybe by the end of the century, it will be Mandarin.
It's obvious though that more ambitious Europeans try to learn English, either take courses from native speakers or travel to the UK. Wealthy families can probably send their children abroad or to a multilingual school.
And let's be clear, learning any foreign language isn't the same as learning a foreign language that makes you more marketable in the job market. Right now, that language is English. Maybe by the end of the century, it will be Mandarin.
It's obvious though that more ambitious Europeans try to learn English, either take courses from native speakers or travel to the UK. Wealthy families can probably send their children abroad or to a multilingual school.
Sep 25th, 2009, 11:23 AM
#35
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"And we Brits are useless at languages."
Speak for yourself.>
well on Coronation Street only a few of dozens of characters speak anything but English - Dev the South Asian and daughter obviously speak Paki or Hindu or some skrit and maybe - a big maybe Ken Barlowe
The rest are pretty much like Americans it seem and are unlikely to speak any other language - heck the vast majority of Brits i'd think never go to university - how and why would they ever learn a foreign tongue?
Yes the elite class as always is worldly wise and speak say French because they had to learn it in their posh public schools or at University but these IME are far from typical Brits, who often seem to struggle with even English.
Speak for yourself.>
well on Coronation Street only a few of dozens of characters speak anything but English - Dev the South Asian and daughter obviously speak Paki or Hindu or some skrit and maybe - a big maybe Ken Barlowe
The rest are pretty much like Americans it seem and are unlikely to speak any other language - heck the vast majority of Brits i'd think never go to university - how and why would they ever learn a foreign tongue?
Yes the elite class as always is worldly wise and speak say French because they had to learn it in their posh public schools or at University but these IME are far from typical Brits, who often seem to struggle with even English.
Sep 25th, 2009, 12:04 PM
#36
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"And we Brits are useless at languages."
Speak for yourself.>
Flanner - he is really speaking for himself and the overwhelming number of Brits: Only 38% can speak a foreign language and i surmise that many of these are of recent immigrant stock, such as the zillions from South Asia - so Britain is really even much much lower than Spain! Well that should settle that argument.
<Do very many Britons know a foreign language or are most
Britons at bottom of table for learning a foreign language ...
Feb 23, 2006 ... Almost two in three Britons are unable to speak a language other than ... only 38 per cent of Britons spoke at least one foreign language, ...
http://www.independent.co.uk/.../bri...ge-467456.html
Speak for yourself.>
Flanner - he is really speaking for himself and the overwhelming number of Brits: Only 38% can speak a foreign language and i surmise that many of these are of recent immigrant stock, such as the zillions from South Asia - so Britain is really even much much lower than Spain! Well that should settle that argument.
<Do very many Britons know a foreign language or are most
Britons at bottom of table for learning a foreign language ...
Feb 23, 2006 ... Almost two in three Britons are unable to speak a language other than ... only 38 per cent of Britons spoke at least one foreign language, ...
http://www.independent.co.uk/.../bri...ge-467456.html
Sep 25th, 2009, 12:25 PM
#37
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do any of these examples showing percentages define what they're asking? I can speak a few words of both Spanish and German, but nobody would be silly enough to call me fluent. Are they counting the percentage of people who can speak a few words, read the language a bit, are they counting those who can communicate on an elementary scale, or are they only counting those who are actually fluent?
The number of people who have a tiny bit of a second (or more) language is one thing, the number of people who are fluent is another thing altogether.
The number of people who have a tiny bit of a second (or more) language is one thing, the number of people who are fluent is another thing altogether.
Sep 25th, 2009, 12:37 PM
#38
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The number of people who have a tiny bit of a second (or more) language is one thing, the number of people who are fluent is another thing altogether.>
Yup - that's why in France though zillions of kids are forced to take a second language for years on end that IME nearly none of them are anywhere near fluent in the languages they studied - now i'm talking about the average French, not the elite or business classes - i'm talking about dozens of kids my son grew up with who i've heard struggle to say anything in English even though they had taken it several years in school. In a poll they may show up as having knowledge of a second language.
Yup - that's why in France though zillions of kids are forced to take a second language for years on end that IME nearly none of them are anywhere near fluent in the languages they studied - now i'm talking about the average French, not the elite or business classes - i'm talking about dozens of kids my son grew up with who i've heard struggle to say anything in English even though they had taken it several years in school. In a poll they may show up as having knowledge of a second language.
Sep 25th, 2009, 12:50 PM
#39
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,063
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The fact that a proportion of the Spanish population don't have grasp of a foreign language isn't the sad fact here - it's that fact that the far more travelled Brits - many of whom grow up taking many holidays in Europe during the summer months - still be the age of 50 still haven't progressed past "dos cerveza".
I don't know the stats but I would bet that a far greater proportion of young Brits travel compared with kids in Spain.
I don't know the stats but I would bet that a far greater proportion of young Brits travel compared with kids in Spain.
Sep 25th, 2009, 12:55 PM
#40
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know the stats but I would bet that a far greater proportion of young Brits travel compared with kids in Spain.>
and if you changed the weather in Spain for that in the U.K. then you'd have Spanish youths flying to places like Blackpool perhaps - yup the British young folk i saw in Benidorm just came for the weather and to get pissed it seemed - not to soak up any local culture or language that's for sure.
and if you changed the weather in Spain for that in the U.K. then you'd have Spanish youths flying to places like Blackpool perhaps - yup the British young folk i saw in Benidorm just came for the weather and to get pissed it seemed - not to soak up any local culture or language that's for sure.
