Southern Italy Itinerary
 

Hi everybody,

I am planning a trip to southern Italy, and I'd like to have your feedback on my itinerary.

Arrival in Rome in late June taking a three hour train ride to Sulmona
- Sulmona: 4 nights with a day trip to Scanno

Two hour train ride down to Termoli and fifty minute boat to the Tremiti archipelago.
- Tremiti Islands: 4 nights with no day trips.

Fifty minute boat back to Termoli and three hour train ride down to Lecce.
- Lecce: 4 nights with a day trip to Gallipoli

Two hour train ride up to Bari.
- Bari: 4 nights with day trips to Alberobello and Matera

Four hour train ride back to Rome
- Rome: 4 nights to revisit the city with no day trips.

End of my trip in the middle of July. Return home from Rome.

What do you think of the logistics? Am I being too ambitious? My main goal is to stroll, visit churches, spend time on the beach, eat and enjoy the atmosphere. I've been thinking about cutting off Bari and add an extra night to visit Alberobello from Lecce in order to make it shorter and less hectic (I'm not a great fan of day trips). However, while I would've loved to spend a couple of nights in Matera, I cannot visit it from any of the other destinations as a day trip.

I visited Campania and Sicily in 2008 combining train/boats, and while I had a great time, I have to admit that I was a little tired by the third week. Back then my itinerary was: Naples-Capri-Amalfi-Taormina-Cefalù-Palermo.

Thanks for your feedback!

Daniel

> My main goal is to stroll, visit churches, ...

You might consider spending a few hours in Trani, which has an amazing waterfront cathedral next to a small old town and harbor. It can be easily reached by train from Bari.

> I've been thinking about cutting off Bari and add an extra night to visit Alberobello

I'm glad I saw Alberobello, and was ready to leave after a few hours.

> I would've loved to spend a couple of nights in Matera

Matera can also be reached by train from Bari.

Hope that helps!

Nice!

I thought Locorotondo was gorgeous. You will see plenty of trulli on the roads in that zone, so you do not absolutely need to include Alberobello, although it is quite a sight to see them in such a concentrated area. Agree that a couple of hours is fine there.

4 nights in Lecce will allow you do do other daytrips; perhaps Otranto (??)

Can you take a night away from Lecce and overnight in Matera?

Will be eager to read of the Gargano/Tremeti and Sulmona, too.

Bari is not considered very tourist-friendly. Consider spending time in Matera instead and visiting Alberobello from somewhere else.

There are buses from Bari to Matera and from Matera to Potenza. You could return from Matera to Rome via Potenza.
http://www.fal-srl.it/it/pdf/quadriautdaBari0112.pdf

I think your plan is overall excellent and not too ambitious, I'd just rethink the 4 nights in Bari, which is a highlight as far as architecture and art, no doubt, but atmospherically not my top choice in Puglia. (Bari used to be very very poor and pretty dangerous until few years ago; those days are fortunately over, but recovery hasn't gone as far as making it what I'd call a pleasant city.) I suggest looking into Giovinazzo as a base instead, which is a really cute small town, with a very nice and calm atmosphere; you could easily do Bari, Alberobello and Matera from there, and also Trani of course. (You didn't say how you'll be making your day trips: rental car or train/bus?) I realize you said you're not a big fan of day trips, and it's true that in two hours, you'll know every corner of Giovinazzo, but then, also Bari doesn't ask for more than one day of thorough sightseeing, so the difference is not that big - you'd have to do three daytrips in four days from one base or the other.
You may be interested in this thread for Puglia and Matera: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-revisited.cfm

Wn November, we visited Sulmona, which we found to be a beautiful and charming town.

In Puglia,instead of basing in Bari, we stayed in Bisceglie, which is very close to Bari, but is on the beautiful Adriatic. We took trains everywhere, including from Bisceglie to Matera, via Bari.

Your trip sounds wonderful.

Byrd

Yes, staying in Bisceglie is basically the same idea as staying in Giovinazzo - just that Giovinazzo is far prettier IMO.

Or Trani, perhaps?

http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/pugliagen

We enjoyed the couple of nights we spent in Alberobello - the trulli were better once the crowds had moved on, and it's a nice little town to explore!

Peter

Wow, thank you guys, for your wonderful suggestions. I think I'll base somewhere else instead of Bari. Technically, I wasn't that excited about Bari in the first place, I had leaned towards it in terms of logistics.

Trani had been one of my first options, or spending a couple of nights in Matera and visiting Alberobello from Lecce instead. However, I'll investigate about Giovinazzo and Bisceglie, since you're saying it's feasible to visit Matera from there. I could remove a day from Rome, since I've already been there, and allocate it somewhere else if needed. Bari is definitely off the itinerary, then.

I was so sorry to cut off Otranto from my original plan, but I'm glad to see encouragement about it. I've read Lecce is small enough to be visited in a day, so I could definitely fit it.

Apulia seems to have so many wondeful places: Ostuni, Locorotondo, Martina Franca... I wish I could visit them all.

I cannot drive, so I'm planning to day trip by train.

Thank you guys, again, I'm feeling pretty confident about it after reading your opinions and suggestions.

How does one put this nicely...

Is it sufficiently diplomatic to say, "Whilst there's nowhere that can't be whizzed round in a day, few places are sufficiently limited that their attractions can be appreciated properly in so short a visit" ?

If so, do please share with us which yahoo it was who suggested Lecce might be visited in a day!

But all the same, given the later sacrifices, I wonder if the Tremiti offer sufficient to justify quite such a large proportion of your time?

We live on an island not very much larger (which you'll probably have noticed in the Capri sunsets?) and well apppreciate the pleasure people get from both diving and simply being at the beach - and didn't get to visit them ourselves - however, from this at least, I don't see an awful lot else to occupy one whilst there...

http://www.italiantouristoffice.se/sv/docs/523.pdf

Not easy though, is it?

Peter

Hi Brit in Ischia,

I never meant to say that I'd visit Lecce as a day trip; I meant to say that I have read here, on Fodor's, people who have said that they considered a full day in Lecce was enough for them. For me, Lecce, is my main reason to visit Puglia.

Is it me or you seem to be upset? I have never been to Lecce, so, that's why I am asking. Besides, like I've just said, a lot of the posts I've read about Lecce here, on Fodor's, thought a full day in Lecce was enough.

Actually, that's why I do not like day trips, as I stated it in my original post, because I don't think a day is enough to appreciate the atmosphere of a place, which is my reason for traveling. I'm not into visiting a series of landmarks and museums, but into getting into the atmosphere.

I'm just trying to figure out my itinerary. For me, the Tremiti are worth it because I'd like to spend a few days on a beach with nothing to do other than rest.

Thanks for the Tremiti link!

Daniel

Here is one Lecce thread:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...any-nights.cfm

But it's true that you only NEED one day for Lecce - I'm really an avid art-and-architecture traveler and typically need far more time for each and every sight than anybody else needs, so if I can do a town in one day, everybody can. Lecce's baroque is fun, but doesn't frankly rank highly among baroque architecture, let alone among baroque sculpture
A completely different question is whether you really WANT to have but one day in Lecce - which is one of Puglia's nicest places in terms of atmosphere, strolling around, eating gelato... that terrific gelato (see my trip report, quoted above) alone is a valid reason to want more than one day in Lecce! But making it a base for a few nights, one day of sightseeing for Lecce proper, the remaining days for daytrips, returning to Lecce in the evenings, that's a perfectly reasonable plan that meets all requirements, the cultural and the hedonistic ones.

You seem to be focusing on Abruzzo and Puglia. In my opinion, you can add Umbria and lessen the days in the other provences. Assisi is a lovely ancient town, and has a beautiful basilica (cathedral). You can also visit the Basilica of Padre Pio in San Giovanni Rotondo, it is in Puglia, and you can easily reach it from Bari.

Thank you Eks and Franco, for a moment I thought I had misread these other threads I was talking about. Eks' thread was one of the ones I had previously read.

Franco perfectly defined the way I see it and done it in other trips: sightseeing for a day and then coming back for dinner or for strolling or for an ice cream after a day trip.

Thank you, Anna, however, Umbria would be far, for me, by train, and I have already visited Assisi, which is a place I hope that I can return to in the future. Thanks for the Giovanni Rotondo recommendation.

Daniel

Don't think I'm a lot wiser.... the chief proponent of "Lecce in a day" doesn't really mean quite that, or do they?

To me, such equivocation is indeed upsetting - and to be frank... well no, that's something I'd rather not be!

It took us a deal longer to see Lecce's attractions, some of which (as well as, presumably, a few puffs for the site's sponsors) are shown here...

http://www.10things.it/guide/lecce/top-10/

... although, first time round, our visit did coincide with the city's lovely "Cortili Aperti" event - when courtyards, church gardens and other 'hidden' spaces had been specially prepared and opened to public view.... as you may have noticed towards the end of those photos - only now labelled as such!

http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/puglialecce

That's still going, with its most recent 17th edition held over 28/29 May last year. Guided tours in English, French, German and Spanish although this PDF is all in Italian....

http://www.comune.lecce.it/NR/rdonly...aperti2011.pdf

Perhaps then we knew where there was interesting stuff to show the friend with whom we went the second time - and you too may find that leaflet useful, if planning to be there for a while?

Whatever you do, be sure not to miss the glorious sight of those streets lit at night... that would be well beyond yahooism!

Peter

Thanks for the links, Peter! I'd been away for a while and I wasn't able to check my thread again.

Your pictures are B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L! I cannot wait to go there! The Cortili Aperti event seems very charming.

Due to logistics, I've decided against the Tremiti islands and cut down my Rome/Sulmona stay to 3 nights each. the Tremiti make more sense for a Gargano trip. Sulmona is the nearest town near Rome where I can spend a few nights near Puglia at a short train ride and I've been to Rome already, so it's not a priority for me.

Anyhow, I found, what I think, it's a great deal for 6 nights in Lecce, from where I'll visit Otranto, Laghi Alìmini and Gallipoli.

Bari is out of the itinerary as a base, but, since my mother is from Castellana Grotte, I've decided to base there for the Valley d'Itria. I even found a masseria that I like. I'd thought of 4 nights, however, how would you rank these towns as day trips from Castellana Grotte:

Alberobello
Martina Franca
Locorotondo
Monopoli
Citernino

Thanks again for your time and opinions!

That's a difficult question, but here are a few thoughts:

I would place Monopoli at the bottom of the list. Granted, I visited only to see the food market as it was on our way to Polignano, but from the glimpse I saw it would not rank as highly as the others. But then, I did not see the waterfront, so perhaps I missed the main draw. (I would put Polignano on the list if you can do an easy daytrip; it is downright spectacular)

As for Cisternino, I've been twice during the day and while it is a very attractive "white" town, one of the draws there are the fornillo/butcher shop restaurants and I believe these are open only at night.

Locorotondo would be at the top for sheer beauty. Great view of the plain as well. Weekly market takes over the town on Fridays, so avoid that day if possible unless you want to shop for cheap brassieres and sparkly jeans.

Martina ranks very close for sheer architectural beauty. It is larger than Locorotondo, with much Baroque architecture. More majestic than the small white villages like Locorotondo and Alberobello.

Alberobello should be visited for the trulli; make sure to see the trulli house museum. You already know that there will be many tourists so try to time your visit to avoid coach tours if possible.

Those are just my own thoughts and others will give different viewpoints.

My opinion is very similar to ek's, not very surprisingly, just that I would rank Cisternino, not only because of the fornelli but also as a "white town", higher than Locorotondo.

Sorry just wanted to thank everyone for their thoughts as I am also planning for a trip to Puglia in June! (Franco if you click on my name, I have a post about Le Marche and Puglia and I would love your thoughts on our plans!!)

Thank you again, I forgot to include Ostuni on the list. However, I am more inclined to visit Locorotondo and Alberobello from Castellana because I want those three days to sort of rest in the masseria and do easy day trips.

I've read similar opinions about Monopoli. The beach looks inviting, but I'm already visiting a few in Salento, so Monopoli is off the list.

Daniel

Hi again everybody,

I have to admit that I am little bit embarrased to write about this, but I have changed my itinerary once more. However, I have booked my flight for 18 nights, so I think this is my final itinerary considering I have even located and contacted where I am staying:

6 nights in Lecce, with day trips around the Salento and Ostuni.

3 nights at a masseria in Castellana Grotte (my mother's hometown), with a day trips to Alberobello and Locorotondo. I'll probably visit Martina Franca, too, since Alberobello-Locorotondo-Martina are on the same train route and very close to one another according to this schedule http://www.fseonline.it/pdf/orariBari.pdf

6 nights in Ischia (this is the new change), where I plan to explore the island for some hiking and beach time.

3 nights in Rome.

Why the new change again? I think that Sulmona and the Tremiti islands make more sense exploring other areas of Abruzzo and Gargano respectively, as I am doing with Salento and the Valle d'Itria. The logistics for Valle d'Itria-Gargano are bit of a nuisance, let alone Gargano-Rome. I think the area north of Bari and the Gargano deserve time and not just a couple of nights for the sake of visiting them. I've already been to the usual places in Campania, and Ischia had always been on my list, which also makes a closer transition from Apulia to end my trip in Rome.

Anyhow, I've read so many wonderful things and trip reports here on Fodors about Ischia and Salento that I cannot wait.

Daniel

Makes more sense to me---you will have a great time.

Perhaps it's due to public transport connections that you plan on visiting Ostuni from Lecce (I don't know much about public transport), but at least as a car driver, I would visit Ostuni from Castellana Grotte, which is not only closer but also makes more sense in terms of local culture (Ostuni belongs to the group of white towns, with Martina Franca, Cisternino, Locorotondo).

Daniel, perhaps I can offer a few things that may be of assistance with those new plans?

If you've not found them already, there are backnumbers of our island's visitor magazine (bilingual Italian/pigeon English since April 2011) - with giugno for June, luglio for July - that you might like to download, or read directly, on:

http://www.ischianews.com/it/home/ar...ategory/2.html

No index as far as I'm aware - but articles on specific places and events are scattered though the year, so you might also want to try the site's English pages - which begin here...

http://www.ischianews.com/en.html

(Over winter the newsy stuff is mostly in Italian, but lots of background items in English!)

Otherwise, for way, way too many photos of mine taken on Ischia - with a few tips and notes - start from:

http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/allaboutischia

... or here, for those of places that are within a reasonable day-trip's range:
http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/tele

And do shout if you're uncertain about anything!

Peter

Maybe you will find something helpful in my (alas, unfinished) Ischia report from 2009; we had planned a week split between Ischia and Capri but we loved Ischia so much that we remained there for the entire time. I do not understand why the island is virtually ignored on this forum:



http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-its-spell.cfm

Thanks, Bob!

Hi Franco! Indeed, it's due to public connections why I am visiting Ostuni from Lecce. I agree with you that, culturally, it would make more sente to visit it from Castellana, but Ostuni is not connected to any of the inland Valle d'Itria towns directly by bus/train, while, from Lecce, there is a direct 45 minute train. From any other town, I'd have to go via Cisternino or Monopoli, and it'd take me more than an hour either way.

Thanks, Eks! I was reading your trip report last night, and it reassured me that a week in Ischia was a good idea. I also read Caroline Edinburgh's as well as Jojonana's. I also read your thread about your Ischia dilemma when planning your trip. It reminded me myself when I am planning an itinerary. I agree with you concerning Ischia being neglected, in fact, even guidebooks offer little information about Ischia compared to Capri. Guidebooks usually say that Capri is more famous and coveted than Ischia for good reasons, but I've been looking at pictures of Ischia on flickr and it looks GORGEOUS!

Thanks for the links, Peter! Specially for the one featuring your pictures, hiking options around Barano, bus routes, you name it... there's everything in there! I love hiking! I am glad that there are so many good websites about Ischia. They offer so much information.

Thanks again... Daniel.

From a post elsewhere last year....

"I've never known whether or not to believe it, but a little bird once told me that this all goes back to one of the first international travel conferences, some time in the early 1950s...

And my feathered friend's story had it that, after a long night's session of poker and drinking, the delegates came up with an agreement to rival the one made at Potsdam only a few years before - whereby, rather than risk being played off one against another by the local hoteliers, the Brits would get Sorrento, the Americans Capri and the Germans Ischia... with poor little Procida being left open for grabs!"
.......................

Either way, the last count (for 2010) looked like this:

http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/image/133250480

... with non-Italians generally favouring the shoulder periods...

http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/image/122604639

... although summer does often see quite a lot of people over from Los Angeles - twinned with the city of Ischia - where a big community of immigrants settled in the San Pedro district.

Peter

Quite interesting, Peter. I visited Procida in 2008 and there were a few weddings celebrated by Germans. I remember Capri being international, the same as Positano, unlike Amalfi town, which seemed to be more visited by Italians.

A question: Sundays are inevitable, but I have realized that my trip starts on a Sunday in Lecce. Will everything be absolutely closed? I have also read about siesta time from 1 to 5pm, so will Lecce be a ghost town on my very first full day?

Daniel

I don't know specifically about Sundays in Lecce and Peter and Franco are the ones with the vast experience in Italy in general, but I CAN tell you that even on weekdays, all of the Pugliese towns that I visited, as well as the city of Lecce, were shut pretty tightly. Since I often arrive in Italy, and begin my week-long trips, on Sundays, it has been a slight problem for me as well. Many restaurants are open for Sunday lunch but not for dinner on the same day.

On the last trip to Puglia, last year, I solved this issue by making Sunday lunch the centerpiece of the arrival day and foregoing dinner on that first day. I know you have lots of experience in Italy, but even though I'd been there many times, I did not remember the experience of a full-blown Sunday lunch in the south, with the many generations of families and all the attendant bustle, laughter, and high spirits, not to mention great food. And if you are traveling alone (not sure if you are..?), I can't think of a better way to meet a few local people than over the lunch table. Maybe I just had great luck at Masseria Barbera, (and again at Da Cesare near Maratea later in the year) but those two Sunday lunches were among my favorite experiences in southern Italy! I'm sure you can find a suitable place in Lecce that would afford similar.

When I was in Lecce on a Sunday a few years ago it was, indeed, hard to find anything open after church services ended. Since part of the joy of visiting Lecce is (IMO) just walking around, it didn't bother me too much, except that I wanted some caffeine after a while. As I recall, I found 2 cafes that were open during the afternoon, one in the old town (it was packed, so the service was very slow) and one in the newer part of town.

Oh yes! All too often our arrivals at a new town have been marked by the sound of shutters slamming down - but siesta time is still a reality here in the south!

And in smaller places, most if not all the trains and buses may be those arranged to fit the needs of their 52 week clientèle - aimed at getting people to work or school early in the morning and back home again for lunch, with perhaps a repeat later in the day.

That's just how public transport is - and, if planning only very short stops, having a car may work better... otherwise about all one can do is try to adapt to the situation?

Can't tell you about Sundays in Lecce from first-hand experience - the second time we arrived on a Monday and on the 1st trip we'd left by then to spend a Sunday birthday in Gallipoli - but Lecce's castle, for example, seems to have opening hours like this:

http://www.arte.it/guida-arte/lecce/...o-carlo-v-2993

I rather doubt that every shop will stay closed until quite as late as 5PM - here, even in August when there can be very very few 'customers' not on the beach, they're usually going by then... with most carrying on until 9,10 or later.

With new "liberalisation" rules coming, almost anything could happen this year - however you could well have to make your own entertainment for a while on that first day!

But just wander and you'll find there's lots to see. When exhausted, as I recollect, the Cin Cin bar - near this taxi rank in the centre of town - kept fairly long hours and offered a great range of icecreams, patisserie etc etc...

http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/image/140120458

http://www.salentovip.it/index.php?lng=&sstr=cincinbar

However it was on the Monday evening that we had particular difficulty finding a restaurant in Lecce (still only just after mid-September) - but that's perhaps typical of cities that get lots of weekend visitors?

Peter

PS - As for who's where.... although only annual totals (and perhaps predating the increase in Puglia's international popularity), this table lists places where the split of visitors is most different from the southern Italian average of 28% / 72%...

http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/image/138495555

Thank you for the links, Peter! I'm arriving on a Sunday evening now instead of a Saturday. I'll be in Castellana Grotte on a Sunday and Monday, but, like I said before, Sundays are inevitable like siesta time. When I went to Naples in 2008, I used to go back to the hotel to rest for a while until the siesta was over, besides, it was scorching hot and it was unbearable to be around the city.

I have just paid for my ticket, so Lecce-Castellana-Ischia-Rome is my final itinerary. I am traveling on June 16... I cannot wait!

Thank you so much everybody for your time and opinions... they have been very helpful!

Daniel

".... to rest for a while until the siesta was over"

I'd call that having a siesta?

Hope you'll have a great time!

Peter

Just to add my two cents! Am working on trip report for our Puglia and more trip last October/November but in a nutshell: We stayed in Galatina which is a great base and a lovely town, easily walkable, nice restaurants, great architecture. From there we travelled almost every day with the highlights being Otranto and driving the coast to Gallopoli. My husband rented a bike and rode the coast road while I was sag wagon.

I thought Otranto was not to be missed although i could see how this might be wall to wall tourists depending upon the time you are visiting. In late October, it was almost deserted.

We spent one day in Leece walking throughout the old city. I don't think I would have chosen to spend more time there.

We stopped in Trani for 2 nights on the way from Abruzzo to Amalfi Coast and really liked Trani. Would go back. It seems like a friendly and prosperous town with a lovely setting and the cathedral is outrageously beautiful. Stayed at Albergo Lucy and would do so again in a minute.

We also spent one night in Matera on the way from Abruzzo to the Amalfi Coast and one night was enough for us though I am glad we had a chance to see it. It was especially worthwhile because we had Nadia Garlatti as a guide. She brought a lot of history and politics into the visit as well as a big personality.

We stayed a week in Bugnara which is about 10 minute from Sulmona and loved, loved, loved Abruzzo. We liked Sulmona very much and think it would be a good base. We prefered a smaller town (Bugnara) and of course, a rental car made a difference. We did a lot of driving in the area, there is quite a bit to explore including some very nice hiking.

Will try to speed up my report to add to some small bits to the great information we all glean from this forum.

Thanks Cindyjo!

I have been reading about Galatina and was interested in visiting it as a day trip. I read in Franco's latest thread that he thought it had been an architectural highlight in Salento and that Lecce was more about atmosphere. However, besides the Santa Caterina basilica, what did you think of the rest of Galatina? Why wouldn't you have spent more time in Lecce?

Which coast did your husband bike, Otranto's or Gallipoli's? How did he like it?

Daniel

Hi Cindyjo,
I am very interested in your Sulmona experience,since we are looking for an interesting route to Trani from Rome airport.I just added a new post this morning..REVIVING PUGLIA and am anxious to find an interesting route.We have travelled lots in Italy but never to Abruzzo.Would Bugnara be a good place to stay for 2-3 days of exploration??Family crises have prevented me from getting our late April itinerary together,and I am now in a panic.Any ideas,suggestions based on your experiences would be appreciated !! As soon as I decide on our pre-Trani itinerary,I intend to contact Albergo Lucy.Would you share your Trani "favorite things"???
Many thanks,Carolina

Castellanese,
Apologies for "coat tailing" your forum.I need to make so many plans in so short a time,and did not realize where I was,when I made the above entry.That said......Did you do much Sulmona research??If you have any suggestions,I would be most grateful for the sharing,really!!!
Carolina

Hi Carolina,

I didn't get do much research about Sulmona before I changed my itinerary. Sorry for the delayed reply.

Castellanese