Landseaair

Hello again,
We are planning a trip in late March to visit our DD in Lausanne. She's been studying abroad and we can't resist the chance to go back and visit her once more before her year ends.
We have booked RT tickets SFO - GVA. Land in GVA on Wed March 23. Will train to Lausanne and stay there 2 - 3 nights.
We had been looking at taking a river cruise along the Rhone River. But I just can't do it. I'm afraid we will be wishing for more time on our own. I know we will take a river cruise someday but this spring is not the time. We were thinking to head to the south of France, the Provence area. We have 9 nights to plan for. There are two Sundays in those 9 nights, the first Sunday is Easter Sunday. So I am concerned about where we are on those Sundays and the ability to still have the opportunity for sightseeing on those days.
Reading as much as I can on the area and think that perhaps Arles, Avignon and Aix-en-Provence would be plenty to see.
We have been to Marseille and seen Monaco so not thinking we need to go over that way.
Also, DH is not fond of driving, is it possible to train to these areas, and perhaps sign up for a few day tours that would get us out in the country a bit? Any recommendations on good day tours you have been on in the area? Otherwise, we may rent a car in one of these towns, use it for a few days then return it. Interested in your thoughts and experiences in the area.
We will train back to Lausanne on Monday April 4, stay there two nights, then Geneva the last night before returning home on the 7th.
Thank you for your help!

StCirq

You can certainly train TO those areas, but once there (and you certainly don't want to move bases a lot once you arrive), getting around on public transport is a pain, to say the least. Avignon probably has the most possibilities for getting out of town, but still, you couldn't really do the Luberon villages, the Vaucluse, and all the truly lovely spots. It will have to be a rental car if you really want to explore, or guided tours. I can't tell you anything about the latter, because I always have a car, but a good start would be with the official websites and tourist office websites of all three towns.

Do you have to go back to Geneva? Why not book open-jaw tickets? Backtracking is always boring and expensive.

Landseaair

Tickets are already booked, the plan was to see DD again at the end of the trip before we leave for home. We might consider staying in Montreaux or one of the other smaller towns along Lake Geneva at the end of our trip where we could still train over to see DD for a few meals before flying home.
Judging from the trip reports on here it appears many people do drive on their trips to the Provence area. At least there is GPS now. How lost could we get anyway?
Would Avignon be the best town to rent a car from?

StCirq

Yes, most people drive around because otherwise their sightseeing choices are limited. As for GPS, the only time I ever used a GPS was, admittedly, a long time ago when it was a new gadget, and it did nothing but continue to tell me to "make an illegal U-turn NOW!" and then deposited me in a farmhouse driveway. The signage in France is excellent. I use Michelin and IGN maps and never get lost, even in remote places.

You could rent a car in any one of those 3 cities, but Arles is probably the easiest one to get in and out of (except on market day), and is very convenient to touring the whole area. Keep in mind that a 1- or 2-day car rental will cost about the same as a 3-day rental, so rent for the maximum possible. I always used to use AutoEurope before I moved here and bought a car. Fuel is really cheap here now - less than a euro for a liter of diesel. As long as you stay off the toll roads (and there's no reason to use them in that part of France for a trip like yours), it won't cost much at all.

StuDudley

We've driven up & down the banks of Rhone many times - and much of it is quite ugly. Lots of unsightly commerce, nuclear power plants, etc.

I think the big cities will seem rather dead on Easter Sunday. I would head to the farmers/antique/crafts market in l'Isle sur la Sorgue on that day, and then visit some of the perched villages in the Luberon (Gordes, Roussillon) after the market.

I'm curious - having a daughter in school means that you can't be that old. You've been to Europe before, and you live in the same part of the country where we live. Why doesn't your husband want to drive? (my wife actually does most of the driving in Europe - I navigate). After you learn a few basics - it isn't that much different than driving around the San Francisco Bay Area. The Luberon will seem like driving around in the Napa or Sonoma Valleys.

We've spent 20 weeks vacationing in Provence. I developed a 30+ page itinerary that describes our favorite villages, scenic drives, markets, restaurants, etc. I've sent it to over 3,000 people on Fodors (6 so far today). If you would like a copy, e-mail me at [email protected] & I'll attach one to the reply e-mail.

Finally some rain!!!

Stu Dudley

Landseaair

Thank you for your responses.
I will email you Stu. Thank you!
We did drive through Ireland 25 years ago without much trouble at all.
I guess it's just fear of the unknown and let's just say we get along better when someone else is doing the driving! I guess we will manage though- we do fine in the Napa and Sonoma valleys and I totally get that public transportation can't go to all the quaint spots.
I appreciate the input, look forward to reading all about Provence! Merci!

StCirq

Get the Michelin Green Guide to France and the Michelin and IGN maps. If you managed Ireland, France will be a breeze!!

aliced

Advice above is right on; driving is easy, especially coming from CA -- we live in NYC Metrop area -- southern France will be a snap. We spent September in southern France, driving 3/4 of the trip from Bordeaux to Avignon over 3 weeks. Via Michelin and Here are two great GPS apps. We loaded both! Their information did not vary much, but as stated by St. Cirq above, French signage is clear and abundant and the frequent roundabouts (rondelles?) list all options. Outside of center-city Bordeaux & Toulouse, the roads were mostly empty. Our kids are 40 & 43 -- you can handle this!

We based in St. Remy and are glad we did. While we only had four nights, it was easy driving to Arles, Avignon, Gordes and thereabouts. Wish we had longer to have done Aix, Roussillon and add'l day in Avignon. Returning to Avis was a breeze right at the TGV station in Avignon, where we hopped on train back to Paris. Try and pick up for a "mood read" Lisette's List by Vreeland (set in Gordes and Roussillon); she also wrote Luncheon of the Boating Party (re Renoir's crowd) -- good historical fiction for all Francophiles.

When in Switzerland, do stop in Vevey -- the Nestle Food Museum is very interesting, and beautiful Montreaux; we based there for the last 4 days of our Swiss trip staying right on the lake. Geneva was essentially watch shops and extravagant hotels. These towns served very well by train to/fro Geneva.

Landseaair

I appreciate all your help.
Stu thank you for the pages of info, it is just chock full of advice.
StCirq thank you for your input and vote of confidence that we can handle the driving.
Aliced thank you for your advice too and the book suggestions. I love reading about areas I will be visiting!
Now the planning begins!

StCirq

aliced, a rondelle is a slice of something round (like a slice of lemon). A roundabout is a rond point.

Christina

In fact, if all you wanted to see was those cities, it is very easy to do by train from Avignon (Aix and Arles) as they are short distances away by train. But if you want to go to a place without a train station, it's not so easy (I have taken the bus to St Remy, schedule was not ideal). But there are certainly companioes that do day bus tours of more rural areas, some people do not drive, after all, and want to do that. The tourist office in Avignon should have brochures, I know the TO in Aix did, also. They would probably go to the most-visited tourist villages, of course, but that's what people mostly do, anyway, actually (eg, Roussillon, Bonnieux and Gordes).

I don't believe in forcing people to drive if they are uncomfortable with it.

janisj

>>I don't believe in forcing people to drive if they are uncomfortable with it.
I don't believe in forcing people to drive if they are uncomfortable with it.<<

Now we're <i>forcing</i> people??? Come on . . .

Landseaair: I'm also from NorCal and drive in the UK ALL the time. England Scotland is in general much easier than Ireland . . . and the south of France is easier still. If you managed Ireland, France won't be any problem at all.

janisj

Sorry about the 'double quote' . . . my finger stuttered

Landseaair

Thanks for the reassurance, janisj.
We don't feel forced to drive.
Our trip in the fall went so smoothly by train in Switzerland and Italy and we enjoyed letting someone else do the driving, so we're just thinking if it was possible to do all trains in Provence that would be great.
It's dawned on me though that I can look on a map and figure out the area in miles that Provence covers, and then translate that to a similar area here in Calif to get an idea of how far we would actually be driving I'm guessing it's not too large of an area.
Last fall we looked online to compare the size of Switzerland to California, that was interesting!

StuDudley

As Lance Armstrong will tell you - France is smaller than Texas - but Lance has been known to stretch the truth at times.

We take trains almost everywhere in Switzerland. Often we've not seen our rental car in days. Same with Italy going from Rome to Tuscany, Milan to Verona to Bologna to Tuscany to Venice. In France, we use trains to go between Paris & the south (Bordeaux, Provence, Languedoc, Dordogne, Atlantic Coast) and into Paris from our final "country" destination (Nancy, Loire, Brittany). Once we are "in" a destination in France (or Italy) - we use a car and always limit or driving between destinations to be no more than 4 hrs - and we usually stay for 2 weeks in a single destination.

Stu Dudley

historytraveler

A better idea than looking at a map to compare the size of California vs.France to determine driving distance and/or time is to simply go to www.viamichelin.com and use their journey planner. It's best to add a bit to the times they give as they don't allow for traffic jams,road construction or comfort stops etc.

Underhill

The Michelin Green Guides give recommended driving itineraries, and we've found them to be excellent for working out schedules. Driving in the Luberon can be slow, as there isn't a large roadway system--and farm vehicles can tie up traffic. But the driving itself is easy as long as you don't need to hurry. That's the whole idea of southern France, in any case.

StCirq

Underhill nailed it, as usual. You can't be in a hurry. The driving's simple. It's the obstacles along the way that slow you down. We met two enormous hay trucks, one gargantuan truck full of hogs, and two tractors on our way into Le Bugue today - made a 10-minute drive into a half-hour.

suitheadcase

We spent 2 weeks in Provence in June. Flew into Marseille, based up near Orange, then Moustieres-ste-Marie ended on Mediterranean, Cannes area. Though we have taken train, bus and boat extensively through Switzerland ( including post buses), Italy and Austria, the best parts of France, IMO are impossible to appreciate without a car or private driver. The flexibility alone is worth it all. We've driven from Archanon through Bordeaux, Burgundy, Lot, Dordogne to the Gorges du Verdon and have had no trouble at all.

Helsie

St Remy is a great base with plenty to see by car within reach. Train to Avignon then pick up a car from the TGV station and it's a drive of about half an hour. A GPS is a fantastic help and takes all the worry about finding your way around.
When researching I use Google Earth . I ask it for directions from A to B and it gives you how long it takes as well as mapping the route for you to see so you can plan your day from one place to the next with approximate time added for exploring. Of course it doesn't allow for hay trucks etc ! But the distances are not great and it's all part of the experience.