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@bilboburgler, thank you. I appreciate your thoughts on Monaco as well as a few others on here. A relative visited not too long ago and enjoyed it, so at least a couple of us in the group want to see it. As we would be on our own, we could always move on if the place doesn't speak to us.
The itinerary could benefit from another half a dozen nights, which unfortunately we don't have. |
Hope my Fodorite friends are enjoying their Sundays. Given where things stand right now, in terms of the likelihood that the Feria d’Arles will proceed and the general trajectory of the pandemic, I’m actively looking at basing out of Arles instead of Avignon. The question is whether we use Arles as our base for all of our seven nights in Provence or split it with Aix-en-Provence. I’m hoping to come away from the visit with a good mix of experiences, incorporating our interests of history, culture, hiking and walking, nature, and good food. Regardless of what we do, we understand that it will leave us wanting more. Knowing our interests, which would you recommend?
Option 1 Fri., 4/14: Arrive in Arles (7 nights). Sat., 4/15: Sightseeing in Arles, to include the Saturday market and bullfight in the arena. We also intend to enjoy the festivities in town on this day as well as in the evenings on the other days. Sun., 4/16: Visit Avignon and, time permitting, Pont du Gard. Mon., 4/17: Sightseeing in Les Baux and St. Remy, possibly walking from Les Baux to St. Remy. Tues., 4/18: Private day tour of the Luberon villages by car (we hope to have time to walk, browse, and generally enjoy a couple of villages, even at the expense of “seeing” multiple villages; Gordes seems to make sense as one of the villages for the Tuesday markets). Wed., 4/19: Private day tour of the Camargue, Les-Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer, and Aigues-Mortes. Thurs., 4/20: Day trip to Aix-en-Provence (including Thursday markets) OR Cassis and the Calanques. Option 2 Fri., 4/14: Arrive in Arles (4 nights). Sat., 4/15: Sightseeing in Arles, to include the Saturday market, bullfight in the arena, and Feria d'Arles festivities. Sun., 4/16: Visit Avignon and, time permitting, Pont du Gard. Mon., 4/17: Sightseeing in Les Baux and St. Remy, possibly walking from Les Baux to St. Remy. Tues., 4/18: Train to Aix-en-Provence (3 nights). Sightseeing in Aix-en-Provence, including the Tuesday markets. Wed., 4/19: Private day tour of the Luberon villages by car. (I don't know if it makes a difference visiting the Luberon villages from Aix versus from Avignon. If we visit the Luberon from Arles, then we could use this Aix day to visit the Gorge of Verdon and Moustiers-Sainte-Marie.) Thurs., 4/20: Day trip to Cassis and the Calanques. Non-urban options I’m playing with are:
I would benefit from your feedback on these questions as well as the pros and cons of the two options, and am open to further adjustments. In addition, are folks familiar with the La Roquette neighborhood of Arles as a home base? One of the options I’m considering is La Maison Moliere. Other options are L’Arlatan and Hotel de Cloitre. Assuming the downward COVID trends continue and no new variant arises, I am looking at putting down money in 3-4 weeks. As always, I am grateful for the help you provide. |
""Sun., 4/16: Visit Avignon and, time permitting, Pont du Gard.""
You must not have read my itinerary!!!!!! I ever summarized it on Post #2 above. I described in detail that you should NOT visit a large city or non-touristy village on a Sunday. Non-food shops will be closed, and sometimes shutters (covered with graffiti) will be pulled down over their pretty window fronts. Museums & Churches will be open. Avignon might seem quite drab. I would skip Avignon altogether - especially since you plan on visiting Arles & Aix. But if you feel that you must visit Avignon, swap Sunday with Monday (St Remy is one of the touristy villages - but more shops are closed on Monday), but visit the Pont first & Avignon on Monday afternoon when a few shops will be open but some museums will be closed. READ MY ITINERARY - PAGE 2!!!!!!!!!!!. The market in Gordes makes parking & visiting very difficult. Be warned!! I would not skip les Baux or St Remy. Stu Dudley |
I'm with Stu on this one. I give you permission to skip Avignon.
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@StuDudley and @shelemm, thank you. @StuDudley, I hope you don't take offense; I've honestly read and made so many tweaks that I don't remember all the considerations that went into it. Based upon this information, I made further modifications to my two options, as follows:
Option 1 Fri., 4/14: Arrive in Arles (7 nights). Sat., 4/15: Arles (noting Saturday markets and Feria d'Arles). Sun., 4/16: Les Baux and St. Remy. I considering walking between the two and enjoying some of the countryside. Has anyone done this? Is going from one direction or another easier? Mon., 4/17: The Camargue, Les-Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer, and Aigues-Mortes. I haven't read much about days of the week and these destinations (there's not much available information on particular days of the week to be honest). Any reason why Monday would be bad? Tues., 4/18: Pont du Gard and Avignon. Wed., 4/19: Luberon villages. Any significant difference visiting the Luberon villages on a Tuesday versus a Wednesday? Is there a worthwhile market on one day versus another? Otherwise, we're looking to walk around and wander. Thurs., 4/20: Aix-en-Provence (noting Thursday markets) OR Cassis and the Calanques. Any thoughts on which of these would provide a more well-rounded visit to Provence? Option 2 Fri., 4/14: Arrive in Arles (4 nights). Sat., 4/15: Arles (noting Saturday markets and Feria d'Arles). Sun., 4/16: Les Baux and St. Remy. Mon., 4/17: Pont du Gard and Avignon. Tues., 4/18: Train to Aix-en-Provence (3 nights). Aix-en-Provence (Tuesday markets). Wed., 4/19: Luberon villages by car. Thurs., 4/20: Day trip to Cassis and the Calanques. Also, any thoughts on staying near the center of Arles or La Roquette? Merci beaucoup pour votre assistance. |
I didn't think the market day in Gordes was much to see; on a 10 pt scale of market day wonderfulness, I'd put Gordes at 3.9
The Calanques were pretty, but the second one was much like the first, etc. Maybe we missed out, but other than eating an OK lunch in Cassis, we didn't see much else to attract our eyes in Cassis. Quaint harbor, yes. But Aix had more for the eye |
I agree that there is nothing impressive about the market in Gordes. It is just a tourist village now, and the market is just a small thing for show rather than utility.
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I did not take a boat trip to Les Calanques, but I have to say that a small boat with snorkeling looks spectacular. I did go on a short hike, and it was great, a truly worthy experiencing. Highly recommended.
I did take a ferry to Port Friou from Marseilles and had time for a short hike there. Excellent. The Port of Marseilles is wonderful. |
@tomboy, @kerouac, and @shelemm, thanks to each of you. I appreciate every nugget of information you are providing and helping me get closer to finalizing these plans.
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Sun., 4/16: Les Baux and St. Remy. I considering walking between the two and enjoying some of the countryside. Has anyone done this? Is going from one direction or another easier?
I have not done this walk. When you visit the ruined castle above Les Baux village, there is a lot of uphill walking. And when you get to the top more walking. Mon., 4/17: The Camargue, Les-Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer, and Aigues-Mortes. I haven't read much about days of the week and these destinations (there's not much available information on particular days of the week to be honest). Any reason why Monday would be bad? The mosquitoes are bad on Monday. Come to think of it, the mosquitoes are also bad Tuesday thru Sunday. Wed., 4/19: Luberon villages. Any significant difference visiting the Luberon villages on a Tuesday versus a Wednesday? Is there a worthwhile market on one day versus another? Otherwise, we're looking to walk around and wander. NO. Forget Gordes market. https://provencedays.com/explore/activities/markets/ Thurs., 4/20: Aix-en-Provence (noting Thursday markets) OR Cassis and the Calanques. Any thoughts on which of these would provide a more well-rounded visit to Provence? Not even close. Aix-en-Provence. Also, any thoughts on staying near the center of Arles or La Roquette? I have stayed at the L'Arlatan hotel (20 years ago). I like the hotel and the surrounding area very much. |
@dugi_otok, thank you for these helpful responses. To be honest, I typically do not think about days of the week as there does not seem to be a different in all my travels. Museums and cultural attractions typically close for a day out of the week, but we easily plan around it. I'm only asking about particular days as it seems there is a notable difference in the South of France as others have shared, especially on Sundays and Mondays. In all of our travels in Europe, the only place where we even noticed it was when we visited Geneva on a Sunday.
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Alas, this trip was not meant to be, nor anywhere else in Europe that we had thought about for April (Italy, England, the Netherlands, and Belgium). We gave it an additional 10 days from our deadline to book, but as of this writing, COVID infection rates are going in the wrong direction and so are our plans. Which brings me back to my friends here.
France remains on my mind and my next possibility is the last two weeks of June. I believe I already know the answer, and that it will be too hot and crowded then, but want to confirm with you. I generally don't want to be near the Mediterranean in July and August given the heat (to me, above 90*F or 32*C, with humidity) and the crowds. And seems like hotel rates for Nice soar from late May onwards. With the rising prices and crowds along the Riviera, I'm also considering heading west after Avignon instead of east and exploring the Languedoc-Roussillon region (Montpellier, Carcassonne, Collioure, Toulouse, etc.) - is this any better? I'm aware we are more limited for choices in late June than we would in April, especially across Europe. June aside, my next opportunity will be mid-November, but Mediterranean weather is generally more iffy then. |
Hi,tripplanner,
It’s been many years since we’ve been in those areas of France, but my memories from a July visit are of lots of crowds and summer weather, though not unbearable. Still, I would not go the last 2 weeks of June for the concerns you have. We never made it to Montpellier but on another July trip, we did visit Collioure (loved it) and Carcassonne, which I found so crowded that, for the first time in my life, I had to leave. I couldn’t tolerate the crowds. I’m not sure if this is what would fit your interests, but we’ve been to Normandy and Brittany at that time of year, and it was lovely. Weather could be a little changeable, but when we were there, it was gorgeous. And not too hot. Judging by my upcoming travel plans for May in Portugal, I’d say tourism has come roaring back in much of Europe, and crowds will be the norm in the popular places. |
Just to note, Avignon will be quite a bit warmer (but less humid) than Nice in late June, typically (90F+ is not uncommon). Montpellier also higher but maybe a few degrees less than Avignon. That area of France (Gard, Herault) has seen some of the highest temperatures of all time in France. You might just prefer heading North, to Normandy or Alsace.
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@progol and @gooster, merci beaucoup for your feedback. And thanks for your suggestions on the northern bits. Perhaps being away from cruise ports may help with crowds too. I will take a look at Normandy, Brittany, and Alsace. I know the Loire Valley is of interest but it's not near anywhere else. And a couple of us always wanted to see Mont St. Michel.
@progol, hope your trip to Portugal is all that you had hoped for and more. I've followed your back-and-forth regarding Sintra and Cascais. We went to Sintra for a day in July and it was without crowds, but that was 2005. Have desires to return so your impressions will be of high interest to me. |
Worrying about July being crowded is relative. As long as the tourists from Asia are missing, things will never be as crowded as they were before covid.
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My recommendation for a two week vacation in June :
Fly into Toulouse. Toulouse 3 nights. Train to Sarlat-la-Caneda (Dordogne) Sarlat 7 nights. Train to Bordeaux. Bordeaux 3 nights. Fly home from Bordeaux. |
Place to Stay
Hi Stu: I have reviewed your Cote d'Azur and Provence Itinerary and love it! Can you recommend a place to stay in Nice? Also where in Nice to stay? I think you said not to stay in the Old Town? We are open to apartment rental or hotel. Something nice for 2 people. Thank you!
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I highly recommend Nice Pebbles for rentals - have used them multiple times. For touring/visiting, Nice is pretty compact. Carré d’ Or, Etoile, Musiciens, Médecins are just a few convenient neighborhoods if you don’t want to stay in the old town. We love the port area, but some might consider that a bit out of the way.
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