n_renea

Hi there.

A good friend and i are planning a celebratory trip to Italy in either May or September of 2014. I know it seems like a long time away but we want to make sure that we make the absolute most of our trip while we're there. We are both youngish (26 and 31) single girls and this will be our first trans-Atlantic trip and my first major travel trip ever, besides to Vegas but I live in California so that doesn't really count.

Below ive included a trip itineray that we are considering and I'm really just wanting to get some brutally honest advice from something other than a guide book. The itinerary below is an independant trip through Virgin Vacations. All tours are optional. We are wanting to visit the typical Trinity of Italy (Venice, Florence, and Rome) and want the best experience possible in our short time visiting. Please offer any advice possible to help make this my first (and hopefully not last) trip of a lifetime.

Should book a package? Book individually? In May? In September? We thought about picking one tour per city and exploring on our own from there. How much spending money is necessary? Is there anything we may need to budget for unexpectedly? Any good book or bloc recommendations? Restaurants and bars? Tips for traveling by Rail? Dressing for May/September weather?

Please, please, please... any (goodhearted and nice) advice is welcomed.

So, here we go:

Rome, Florence, and Venice, 10 day trip, Independant

16 Sep 07:30AM [US 1610] US Airways [LAX] Los Angeles CA
[CLT] Charlotte, NC 16 Sep 02:57PM
16 Sep 06:10PM [US 720] US Airways [CLT] Charlotte, NC
[FCO] Rome, Fiumicino, Ital 17 Sep 09:30AM

Transportation to Hotel.

Rome Sept. 17:
Check In at Imperiale Hotel, three nights in Rome. Free day.

Sept. 18: Ancient Rome Tour. Free morning/late afternoon.
Today's tour will feature the classic splendor of the Roman Empire. Leave Piazza San Bernardo, adorned by Moses Fountain, and head to Piazza Venezia where you will admire the Memorial to King Vittorio Emanuele II and the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Continue to the square of the Capitol, and admire the unique sight of the Forum, Colosseum, and Palatine Hill, one of Rome's most ancient districts. Walk along the pavement of the original Roman grid, which crosses the ruins of the Roman Forum, the Curia, and the Reggia. Enjoy views of the Temple of Vesta, the Arch of Titus, and the Triumphal Arch of Constantine. Continue with an inside tour of the Colosseum, a giant ampitheater used for gladiatorial contests and public spectecales, and the largest building ever built in the Roman Empire.

September 19: Illuminated Rome by Night Tour/ Free day.
This evening, depart Piazza San Bernardo for an illuminated tour of Rome's historic piazzas and fountains. Along the way to the famous Piazza della Repubblica, enjoy flood-lit views of the Palazzo Margherita, Porta Pinciana, Villa Borghese, Piazzale Flaminio, Via Flaminia, Piazza del Popolo, Piazza Augusto Imperatore, and Via del Corso. Arriving at the Piazza della Repubblica, visit Trevi Fountain, the largest and most exquisite Baroque fountain in Rome, before continuing along the Via Quattro Fontane to view the equally impressive, Fountains of the Four Seasons. From Piazza Venezia, enjoy charming views of the Memorial of King Vittorio Emanuele II and the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. From this prime vantage point, admire the Capitol, Imperial Forum, Colosseum, Palatine Hill, Aventine Hill, Circus Maximus, and the Great Synagogue, overlooking the former Jewish ghetto. Conclude this fascinating tour of the Eternal City by night with views of the Castel Sant'Angelo and St. Peter's Basilica on your return.

Florence Sept. 20:
First Class Transport to Florence, 2.5 hours
Check In at San Gallo Palace. Three nights in Florence.

Sept. 21: Florence Morning City Tour. Free afternoon and night.
This morning, depart by coach for a short stop at Piazzale Michelangelo, one of the most ideal vantage points of Florence. Continue on to visit the Accademia of Fine Arts to admire Michelangelo's David. Next, tour the Piazza del Duomo in the heart of Florence to view the Cathedral of Santa Maria del Fiore, the Battistero di San Giovanni, and the Campanile of Giotto.

Sept. 22: Pisa Tour from Florence. Free evening.
This morning, enjoy a relaxing drive through the beautiful Tuscan countryside towards the historic University city of Pisa, famous throughout the world for its architectural beauty. Enjoy a leisurely walk through the Piazza dei Miracoli to view Pisa's most prized landmark, the Leaning Tower, as well as the Baptistery, and other famous monuments for which the city is known. Lastly, visit the city's Cathedral.

Venice Sept. 23:
First Class Transport to Venice, 2 hrs.
Check In at Hotel Bucintoro, Two Nights.
Free day.

September 24: Walking Tour of Venice
This morning's walking tour through the most charismatic and important historical places in the unique city of Venice begins with an orientation of St. Mark's Square, considered the historical heart of the city, where you will learn about the Square's main monuments including the Golden Basilica of San Marco, Ducal Palace,the Bell and Clock Towers, and the Procuratie buildings. Proceed to Santa Maria Formosa Square and Campo SS. Giovanni e Paolo, the second largest square in Venice. Continue on to the corner of Marco Polo's House and Malbran Theater. Then, return to St. Mark's Square through the Mercerie, a series of interconnecting streets that connect Ponte di Rialto and St. Mark's Square, and are the main streets in the city for shopping. Please note: This is a walking and orientation tour of Venice that does not include entry into any landmarks.

Sept. 25: Check Out

25 Sep 11:35AM [US 715] US Airways [VCE] Venice, Italy
[PHL] Philadelphia, PA 25 Sep 03:20PM
25 Sep 05:55PM [US 709] US Airways [PHL] Philadelphia, PA
[LAX] Los Angeles, CA 25 Sep 08:59PM 0

These are all four start hotels within walking distance of the main attractions and first class transport between cities. All the tours are individually selected so we can opt in or out of any of them. They are priority tours with a tour guide and you do not have to stand in the lines you would typically have to stand in to see these. Total Price: $6,830.64 for both of us. All hotels have a private bathroom and twin beds with a breakfast included.

kybourbon

I don't know how they could possibly price flights for 2014 when the airlines don't even have schedules/prices that far out. Airlines only load fares about 10 months out.

You don't need a tour company for a trip such as this. I would watch for an airfare sale (once you are in that 10 month window) and book things yourself.

>>>First Class Transport to Florence, 2.5 hours<<<

Doesn't even make sense. The fast train from Rome to Florence takes 90 minutes. You can book online yourself (not this far in advance) and currently you can get discounts for as little as 9€. You also don't need 1st class on these fast trains especially for a 90 minute ride. This is a picture of 2nd class on those trains.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssainterno.jpg

>>>They are priority tours with a tour guide and you do not have to stand in the lines you would typically have to stand in to see these.<<<

They don't sound like priority tours. Some sound like a walk-by, not an actual go inside.

You can book your own entrance tickets for most sites and avoid lines.

There is no mention of the Vatican in Rome. I would not do the illuminated night tour of Rome. That would be a waste of time to me. You might want to see a place or two lit up at night (the Colosseum), but not the rest. It's another walk by type of tour since most places aren't open at night.

Florence is very walkable (only about 20-25 minute walk across the historic center). You can easily do it on your own.

Pisa is a 7€ train ride from Florence and easy to do.

If I were you, I would watch airfares (sign up on a few farewatcher sites when you are in the 10 month window) and try to add some days to your trip. You only have eight days in Italy.

PeaceOut

Does that price include all your airfare?

If you do some searches on this forum, for each of your questions, you will find a LOT of information to help you fine-tune how to go about it.

In general, you will find most people here are more in favor of traveling on their own, without a tour group. It isn't difficult to plan a trip on your own, and get guides for specific places, like ancient Rome. It is a matter of what you are comfortable with, and how much it costs.

We toured Italy the first week of May in 2006, and the weather was outstanding. The flowers were in riotous bloom on the Spanish Steps, for instance. And tourist crowds aren't there yet in early May.

Have fun planning your trip. It will be lots of fun.

n_renea

I made a couple attempts to post that... My kindle died and so did my laptop. Boo.

Anyways, it seems I left out that since we were looking so far out, we couldnt get exact dates for the trip and the flights so the itinerary above is based off what we would book if we were going September 2013. I my goal was just to get a price range, I know its not going to be exactly the same a year from now but I know what price range I'm looking at. Does that make sense?

As far as the rail trips between... Those travel times were just based off an article read which is why I wanted to get forum opinions since I figured they would be more accurate. The blurb about the tours being priority is again based off the website. Never having gone to Italy, I wasn't sure... Hence the forum post.

I'm just nervous about booking everything seperate, to me the perks of

n_renea

Oops, like I was saying, to me, the perks of a tour packaged trip like the one above, is that everything is booked consistently and you can purchase insurance in case anything happens.

As you can probably tell, I haven't traveled much at all so this whole process is new to me. I'm just trying to make the most of it. I would love to spend more time, I could possibly add two more days but my travel partner has a daughter and that's a long time away from your child, ya know?

Thank you for the comments! I have some more forum reading to do.

kybourbon

>>>the perks of a tour packaged trip like the one above, is that everything is booked consistently and you can purchase insurance in case anything happens. <<<

Insurance wouldn't cover a sightseeing tour that didn't happen. You can also buy insurance to cover your own trip you put together. You can compare different insurance options on sites like: http://www.insuremytrip.com/

Most of these tourist sites offer their own tours which can easily be booked or they have audio guides you can rent. I can't imagine going to Rome and not visiting St. Peter's and the Vatican Museums.

Whenever I fly to Europe I plan to stay as long as possible. If I'm spending all that time and money (one of your biggest trip expenses) to get there, then I might as well stay awhile.

n_renea

To be honest, I would rather tour the Colosseum, Roman Forum, and Palatine Hill than the Vatican but that's just me.

Thanks for the link to the insurance site. Do you think travel insurance worth it?

kybourbon

>>>To be honest, I would rather tour the Colosseum, Roman Forum, and Palatine Hill than the Vatican but that's just me.<<<

Your friend might think otherwise.

Here's a rundown on costs so you have an idea.

Private limo transfer from airport to hotel: 40€ for up to 3 people.
http://www.romeshuttlelimousine.com/...t-transfer.php

Taxi from airport to hotel: 48€ up to 4 people including luggage (it's a set fee in Rome).

Entrance to the Colosseum/Forum/Palantine: 12€
Regular tour of the Colosseum: 5€
Special tour which includes Colosseum underground and 3rd tier: 20€

Admission to Accademia in Florence: 6.50€

Admission Baptistery Pisa: 5€
Admission/tour of Baptistery in Pisa: 8€
Your tour doesn't include admission to the tower which would need reservations.

Fast train Rome/Florence: 2nd cl 43€, 1st cl 63€
Advance purchase discount tickets 9€.

Fast train Florence/Venice: 2nd 45€, 1st 63€
Advance discount 9€.

If I were booking a day tour from Florence to Pisa, I would book one that included a hill town or vineyard such as this one.
http://www.caftours.com/highlights-o...e-tasting.html

Mimar

This is an easy trip to do on your own. But if independent travel for a first trip to Italy makes you uncomfortable, take the tour. At least you spend several days at each destination, which is better than most tours.

Be very selective about which excursions you sign up for. I've been to Italy a number of times. (My husband has relatives there.) And I've never seen the leaning tower of Pisa. It's just not important to me.

I prefer to travel in Europe in the spring. The days are longer so you can see more.

n_renea

kybourbon: You're very right, she may. I'm completely fine with visiting both. We had kind if agreed that we would pick one tour each so, mine will be the Ancient Rome and if she picks the Vatican then great! If she pucks something else, that's great too. Thanks for the price breakdown. I'm glad I started looking into this early, we have a lot of decisions to make about our trip.

Mimar: Great point about the longer days, that also means we don't have to wait as long!! Haha.

So, let me ask you this, I'be read a lot about types of clothes to wear. I'm from So. Cal. The summers are hot 100-110 and the winters are usually pretty mild. I've read the typical weather in May is late 70's to late 80's. Is that pretty accurate? We're definitely planning jeans and shorts but in the summers here, I practically LIVE in summer dresses. I know that there are shoulder and knee rules churches AND I've heard Italian men are pretty aggressive... (So are American men.) Are summer dresses appropriate? I realize there's a lot of walking and I probably wouldn't wear them on tours but just to wander around in the late afternoon/evenings...

How much Italian is necessary to learn. I want to be able to communicate effectively with people and I'm excited to learn a bit of a new language. We're also interested in taking a cooking class. Worth the money? (I've found a couple for 100-150 a person.)

adrienne

<< weather in May is late 70's to late 80's >>

Sounds about right for the temps.

<< We're definitely planning jeans and shorts >>

Jeans are hot and heavy. You won't be able to go into churches in Italy while wearing shorts. I suggest you leave these at home and buy some light weight capris or trousers.

Why wouldn't you wear your summer dresses during the day? Seems like the ideal outfit for hot weather.

<< How much Italian is necessary to learn. I want to be able to communicate effectively with people >>

It's not necessary to learn any Italian but knowing the basic words of politeness will improve your experience.

You would need to study for several years at home or stay and study in Italy for about a year to communicate effectively.

Why not do what other people do and learn a few words and phrases. People in Europe who deal with tourists speak English.

n_renea

Adrienne: Key phrases and stuff like that is what I meant but communicating effectively. O took two years of Spanish and can barely speak it past introducing myself and asking for directions, I know I can't learn Italian quick enough to carry. Long conversation.

As far as the dresses are concerned, I figured it was fine but I was just checking. I live in jeans, even here in the summer so I'm not really worried about them being hot or heavy... I will definitely make sure I pack some capris. I'm not a trouser fan.

Jean

You've received lots of helpful comments. I'll point out a couple of things I've gleaned from my SIL and BIL who prefer to take guided tours.

The days start very early. OK, some people get up early even on vacation, but being showered, dressed, packed, breakfasted and in the lobby by 7:30 day after day is not my idea of vacation.

Lots of riding buses. From the tour description you provided, the transportation from Rome to Florence is probably by bus. Waste of time IMO.

Because you're riding lots of buses, the hotels need to be well located for allowing a parked bus to be loaded up. The tour company also wants a hotel with many very similar if not identical rooms. For these reasons, the hotels are usually located well outside the historical centers of cities, somewhat far from the main sights.

About speaking Italian... You have more than a year to listen to language CDs and learn some basic phrases. (Check your local library.) If you speak a little Spanish, you may be surprised to learn the similarities to Italian.

Clothing... Pack light. Pack things that mix and match colorwise and layer. We also live in California, and on the first trip we made to Italy we were a little surprised at the humidity (not high, but definitely higher than SoCal) that kept the feels-like temperature higher. Venice in particular would look gloomy when we left the hotel, but we'd be shedding the sweaters or jackets after 5 minutes of walking. Select shoes for comfortable walking, not necessarily fashion.

StCirq

OK, you asked for brutally honest: Just reading the text of that tour promotion makes we want to scream. Talk about capitalizing on people's ignorance! As kybourbon points out, it's not even sensibly thought-out or reasonably priced and just has you walking by a lot of things you will probably want to actually see. You can easily and more cheaply figure this all out on your own. Watch airfares starting about 10 months out, check train fares about 3 months out, get maps, read guidebooks, get busy with Italian, make a plan. It's not rocket science.

Forget the jeans and shorts. Dresses are perfect. Capris work fine, too. Jeans weigh down your luggage and are hot. Make sure you have something to cover your shoulders/head when going into churches. Comfortable, sturdy shoes are essential.

ekc

Sundresses are the best thing to wear. Italian men are not any more agressive than American men. If your dresses are short, wear a pair of leggings. Both sundresses and leggings take up very little room in your luggage and can be hand washed in the bathroom sink if necessary. Since you will want to do carry-on only (especially with that much moving around from city to city) jeans are not a good option as they are bulky and take too long to dry.

annhig

Please note: This is a walking and orientation tour of Venice that does not include entry into any landmarks.>>

to me, n_renea, this sums up the sort of package tour that you have looked at. you can really organise something a lot better and more interesting yourself, using local guides if necessary, for example Context Rome, who will do an excellent tour of the colosseum, forum etc., or Rome at night, or...

the sorts of tours that these people are offering you could do yourself with a guide book, and probably do a better job.

for the sort of trip you are considering, you could book an open jaw flight into Venice and out of Rome [often thought preferable for north american visitors as the flights out of Venice back to the US tend to leave vey early in the morning] spend 3 nights there, 3 in Florence and 4 in Rome.

too much to see in each place for you to see it all, but that would give you a decent taster, and you would be in charge of what you saw and did, NOT someone else.

Rostra

>>>I would rather tour the Colosseum, Roman Forum, and Palatine Hill than the Vatican but that's just me.<<<

If you take their large group tour you will be disappointed.

They will run you thru the Roman Forum pointing out a few sites, you will only see the Palatine Hill but not visit it and then over to the Colosseum.

The guide will give the same exact speech that he/she gives every day and likely questions off their grid if taken will be answered inaccurately.
I base this on the whoopers I have overheard them telling their large tour groups.

If that is one of your top sites to see, spend a bit more and book a small group (6 or less) tour with a company like ContextRome.

Now what you are doing with this travel agency (TA) and this independent tour is paying for them to book things for you with very limited options on hotels and no other tour company options.
And they are booking your air and rail travel with fees attached.

I'm a computer idiot and don't speak or read Italian but I have done all those things on my own except the advanced train tickets only because I've travelled off-season and have just walked into the station and used their ticket vending machines which if I can use them anyone can.

But it is fairly easy to advance book train tickets on your own and others here can help you do that.

Booking the airline tickets is easy but still ask for advice here on how to get deals.
Also I would fly into Venice and out of Rome, it's alot easier leaving.

Booking Italian Hotels: If on you own, now you have *alot* of options and 1st hand info on the many messageboards.
Post your price range and ammenties needed here and on other boards, google search the choices, decide and book. Also in esp the big city hotels booking in English will not be a problem.

Site Tours: Just like the hotels you now have multiple options and 1st hand experiences and not the single choice of the TA.
Again booking in English, no problem.
Also you can pre-book tickets on your own and avoid the long lines at the same sites that a tour group would.

Transportation: Except it seems the TA getting your rail tickets you're on your own anyway, so you don't need them.

Post here (also check out websites on Venice), ask about getting from the Venice Airport to your hotel.
That's where the majority of the herd is heading from the airport and it's signposted in English.

From Rome, hire a car and driver roughly the same price� as a taxi, hotel to terminal very easy.
[Or in reverse.]

Transportation within the Cities;

Venice is walkable with waterbuses on the canal.

Florence is also walkable, the main tourist attractions and the majority of hotels are within 1sq/mi.

Rome is mostly walkable with a centrally located hotel, if not a taxi for 2 isn't unreasonable say to the Vatican/St. Peter's.
Plus the main bus routes aren't really hard to figure out.

So you don't need a tourbus to get you around Rome and Florence.

So booking on your own will save you money and give you the choice to see the sites you want to see and how.

ShellD

n_renea I haven't been on our trip to Italy yet, so my opinion is more on the style of travel than on the actual trip. We're going this coming June. But I've traveled pretty extensively, mainly in Central America and the Caribbean and I love planning trips. For me that's part of the adventure. For our first trip to Costa Rica I thought we wanted to do a package because it all seemed so overwhelming to plan, however, the more I looked at the packages, the more I realized I could do it myself. From that point on, there was no stopping me!

Now, that being said, I have friends who much prefer a guided tour. They did a group tour to Italy a few years ago - they were about 40 and had absolutely no interest in planning the trip on their own. They wanted the trip taken care of for them. They wanted to just be able to get up, be at their designated spot and go where they knew they were going. They LOVED it! They made some great friends that they still keep in touch with. They feel that they saw exactly what they wanted to in the depth that they wanted. They researched the type of group they wanted and went with it. They took the time on the bus rides to rest and didn't mind that time at all. They said they had great food, which was all included and I don't remember them complaining about the hotels, but I know they weren't luxury either.

So, I think it just depends on what your comfort level is. I think if you're going to do a tour, it can be a good experience if you find one that meshes with your interests and expectations. I also think that if you push your comfort level too far you can have a worse trip than not going on a tour if that's what you would have been more comfortable with in the first place.

If you decide to try the trip on your own, you definitely can get great advice here though!

n_renea

Haha, I did ask for brutally honest and got it! Thank you all so much!

I can't forget the jeans completely but maybe I'll only pack one pair.

The more you all post, the more it seems like booking ourselves would be the best way to get the most out of our trip. I'm so excited so THANK YOU for all your advice.

I will definitely look into booking it all individually. Price range wise, we havent talked specifically about price ranges but I would like to be able to book our hotel and transportation for right at or less than what the TA was going to charge.

To be explain a little more... I was originally planning on going alone. I didn't think anyone would be able to take the time off to go so when I brought it up to my friend, she was very excited. She's an ideal travel buddy. I sent her what I was already looking at. I felt more comfortable, if I were to be traveling alone, to book with a TA but since we're both going. I think we will definietly talk about doing this on our own.

I'm going to pick up some learning Italian cd's (great idea!) and just start looking around at what hotels and things cost for the months we're looking at.

I had read that June through August are the main tourist months of we went in mid-May or mid to late September, would that still be considered tourist season?

kybourbon

June through August are very hot. May and Sept. will be a bit cooler, but you have to keep in mind many things are simply not air conditioned (churches, restaurants, many museums) in Europe. Air conditioning that does exist is not equivalent to US AC.

Any sun dresses would need sleeves to enter many churches (shoulders and knees need to be covered). Instead of jeans, take linen. Italians tend to wear very thin linen to keep cool.

Star listings for hotels in Europe are based on the amenities offered (elevator, bar, restaurant, etc.), not on the quality of the hotel. Decide what amenities you need, post a budget and people here will give you lots of options.