We have made 3 trips to Europe, the first with little planning, which resulted in much greater planning on the last two. All were driving trips which can be an adventure all by itself deciphering signs and maps, even with web trip tics and michelin maps. I agree with Elvira, time is precious when you are traveling, waisting time unnecessarily looking for quaint, comfortable, friendly and safe accomodations is much better done, for us, before we leave. As someone here said, having your place to sleep in a foreign country where you know little of the language is reassuring. Heck, we were in Praque last fall, had our hotel and a map and with all the one way streets we still spent an extra half hour (and inadvertantly drove accross Old Town Square!) Talk about adventure!! <BR>We read tour books to be informed. Rick Steves does provide back ground to refresh the history you learned 30 years ago. It helps us then to better appreciate the places we are visiting and make intelligent decisions on what we plan to see. Restaurants are another matter, we do venture and read menus, etc. <BR> Yes there are repetitive questions on the forum and people should do searchs. However, they may be novice as I was when I first found the forum. I use it to augment all my other web and book research. We do tend to micro plan. But when you want to celebrate a wedding anniversary with dinner at the Eifel Tower, yes we plan in advance. <BR> There are a lot of opinions on this subject (planning vs winging it). Just chcek out the Rick Steves site and you will see there are as many for as against. But when you are checking in to the place you want to be, and the hotel/B&B/Pub, etc is turning people away it is much better than being turned away, we've been there, done that and no thank you.

DON'T STOP!! I LOVE THIS GIG!!

Interesting topic although my experience has been just the opposite of Mark's. I went to Europe twice before I started reading guides, and on those trips I sensed that I got less of a feel of the places I visited - - we usually chose restaurants because we were hungry and hotels because we were tired and often got mediocre results. We were visiting local people on both trips, and they were great on sights and places to visit but much less knowledgeable about hotels and, outside of their own neighborhoods, restaurants. Now, ten more trips later, guides, this forum, etc., let us make better informed judgements. It's like reading reviews of restaurants or galleries or whatever. If you're experienced and have your own tastes and preferences, reviews help you make decisions and choices, but you don't let them decide for you. A final note - - I've also noticed the sometimes excessive concerns about safety shown here, but I'd guess that it comes mostly from first time travelers, and for many Americans the first trip is scary in itself.

Mark, you brought up an interesting topic. It is certainly one of the great questions for travelers these days. Will Prague, Venice, and other places that are loved for so many reasons continue to have that same charm if tourism continues to grow at such a rate? Just look at Rick Steves. He knows he has created front door spots out of back door spots, but the only alternative is to not let people know about them in the first place. Honestly, I do love to plan in detail because I have had a few experiences when I did not plan so well and regretted not having certain experiences when I returned. There are just so many places around the world that I want to see before I am out of here, and I am afraid there just isn't enough time to return to the majority of them. Now with some places, that is not the case. Paris, for example. I do intend to make a minimum of four to five trips there, so I can afford to see it differently. On my first trip, I hit most of the more famous sites, but I also found time for wandering around the Ile-St-Louis just after dawn and wandering the backstreets of the Left Bank and Montmartre. Next time, I plan to include other "more local" areas that are on the outskirts of the tourist area. I have found that wandering into residential neighborhoods is a great way to see what a city is really like. I had this experience in Japan and found it to be a highlight. I also enjoyed taking a local-laden second class bus through the small villages of Mexico for the same reason. Plus, as an avid photographer, I have to plan where to go for certain views and what time of day to visit certain places for good light. However, some of the best people photos are found off the beaten path. If I were a rich man with no need to work as much as I do, I would do it just as you proposed on every occasion Mark. Keep up the thought provoking questions.

First of all, Wes Fowler, I'd love to "bare" with you, but the Aesthetics Police would arrest me immediately! <BR> <BR>Secondly, there are some questions here that are INVALUABLE in preventing disaster, e.g., which train, which station, etc. <BR> <BR>Third, when two people of diametrically opposed travel philosophy are travelling together, the guidebooks and this forum provide a very nice mediation. For example, a husband I shall not name tends to find a place he likes and return there day after day after day, while I abhor retracing my steps even once. The guidebook gives him some confidence that others (besides his crazy wife) have tried out certain places and I am able to convince him to go to a new restaurant or difference hotel neighborhood.

Perhaps many Americans do tend to travel a little differently than others, a fact that was brought to my attention by a friend's German father, a physician who lives in an exquisite village in the Black Forest. While staying with him two trips ago, my husband and I mentioned we hoped to go to Berlin and Prague on our next trip. He smiled wryly at us and said, Ah you Americans, you always want to see EVERYthing. This man travels often but tends to holiday in the same few places. I also know Americans who do that of course, but I have to confess I like trying to see EVERYthing that I want to see, at least once in my life. <BR> <BR>And research, why not? I LOVE doing the travel research...which extends the joy of my trip. Also, if you know more about a place when you arrive, then you can enjoy it at a deeper level. <BR> <BR>I thought we Americans were supposed to be so bad exactly because we supposedly know nothing about the places we visit...seems to me the stereotypes can't have it both ways.

If people post saying they don't want to go to the standard places,they get plenty of response on this board - there is certainly enough knowledge. <BR>Trouble is most are asking for info to get through a standard tour & seem too preoccupied with that to consider any gallivanting around. <BR>When I see such people posting questions about Stonhenge or Avesbury I refrain from telling them that there is an equally impressive site at Callinish (Isle of Lewis) because most tourists don't have the time on their first trip, after which they will begin to focus more in detail on an area or an interest. <BR> I'm afraid the position is very much as Mark says, all the tourists end up in the same bars on their first visit, but is this really a bad thing? <BR> It takes the strain off both the tourists,who go to the "easy" places & off the delicate sites - less of them need protected. <BR>You aren't allowed to touch the stones now at Stonehenge now, too many tourists, yet I know plenty of ancient sites you could take away on a truck without anyone seeing you! <BR>In my view, those who are interested will discover/ask about these places,and those who are not are best not led there. <BR>Ask about off-the-beaten-track & you'll be told! <BR>This is a good forum!

Interesting comments here. I believe Lori (and maybe a few others) commented that foreign tourists to the U.S. tend to visit the famous sights first and do not strike out into small towns and lesser known places on their first visit. The Empire State Building, Washington D.C.'s monuments, Las Vegas Strip, Grand Canyon, LA's Universal Studios and Beverly Hills, etc. are the "well known" places and hence get the foreign visitors on their initial trips to this country. Hardly anyone ventures out to "Podunk Falls" on their first trip to the U.S.

Quite often planning a trip can be as much fun as the journey itself. So, if some of us tend to micromanage our precious vacation time, the pretravel research extends the joy of travel and hopefully will make the ultimate experience more enlightening. Though we shouldn't be wedded to a rigid travel itinerary, the planning whets the appetite and broadens the vacation.

I agree with you, Mark. I often wonder why persons posting actually booked their flight to various cities if they have no idea what there is to do there. How do they usually go about vacations? I do not mean to demean, however, it seems to me that if I want to go somewhere, it is because I read about wonderful cities full of interesting sites or history or castles, etc that I would like to tour. On the other hand, I like to read the posts to see what others are reviewing and perhaps if I pass one of these sites, I will stop in or add it to my schedule if time permits. I like to have an idea of some places I might pass, for example, in the way of restaurants. Not that I must book a specific one, but it is nice to have "one in my pocket" if I cannot find one on my own. I like to look around and find something inviting that I want to come back to....not mearly reinact someone else's experience. Perhaps that is the adventure in me. Others may need the security of specific places recommended by others. I carry guides only for maps and timetables only if I am on trains. (In Italy this is useless as the strikes make this really silly). I was fortunate in Prague to have local friends pop us into their car and blow through the countryside showing us Moravia. We reciprocated by picking them up in a small plane in the US and showing them various sites by private car. This is fortunate, I know, but I am stressing here that another way to travel is with experienced friends....what would the world be without them?

One more thought about why Americans might be interested in restaurant recommendations in Europe rather than just wandering into places. I live in a major metropolitan area in the U.S. with lots of good places to eat. But we also have a lot of middling places to eat. Just wandering into a place is quite a risk, in my opinion. The risk isn't that one will be poisoned; it is that one will run into the equivalent of "strip mall" dining. Maybe there are fewer "ordinary" restaurants in Europe, so one's odds of being fortunate to discover a fine place to eat are higher.

Cindy, good point. Let's say someone has two nights in Paris and will likely never return. Why take a chance and never experience that great Parisian cooking you have always heard about? Now if you have a week or so, you can take a few chances and go to some recommended spots. Trouble is, other than with Paris, London, and a handful of other places, most travelers don't spend that long in one spot.

We are both travelers and tourists, depending on where we are visiting. The first few times we visit a country, we are concerned with seeing the famous places. After that, we make a choice to return somewhere and become a traveler, limiting our experiences and dallying in areas we like. Perhaps many of the posters here are first time tourists to an area and need to do the tourist thing. I'm quite amazed at the number of sophisticated travelers as well and I enjoy reading their questions and responding when I'm able to. Mark has made a good point, but I'm hoping that many of the tourists will gain experience and become travelers as well. My only gripe is that people aren't specific enough--the "please recommend a reasonable hotel in London" question is more than a bit frustrating.

I, for one, love the "planning" part of my o/s trips. I get such a thrill from it. That said, however, I don't over plan the trips. I have a notebook where I write what museums, for example, are open that day so I have several options for the day. There's nothing worse than really wanting to see something and missing it - I missed the Fitzwilliam at Cambridge on both trips there because I forgot to check the opening days. As for hotels, it pays to know where you'll be staying as much as possible. On my Eurail trek in '94 half were pre-booked, the others weren't. That way my office and family could contact me 50% of the time (necessary). <BR> <BR>The problem with not pre-booking is that you can end up, as I did, at Strasbourg with the hotels full up. It was a weekend and everywhere we looked had no vacancy. I joined a long queue at the tourist office and they found somewhere for us, but what a waste of 2-3 hours in Strasbourg when we only had a few days there (just for the record, we were booked to fly home ex Paris a few days later so our itinerary was getting stricter as we came closer to our departure date). <BR>We rarely take note of restaurant recommendations, as you just don't know where you'll be at lunch/dinner time. We spend all day out and about and walk or catch the metro or tram or whatever the local transport is. <BR>Mark, it all depends on one's circumstances IMHO. The reason for this forum is to exchange travel experiences - the average poster here is not your "Europe by coach in 21 days" type all eating at prebooked restaurants. <BR>

Hmm..interesting thread. I tend to agree with Elvira and actually this just about the first year in my working life that I have even 3 weeks of vacation time. I have found my least planned trips to often be the most disappointing-often returning home and thinking, "how could I have missed that?" <BR>On the other hand, I have had some very memorable and wonderful experiences just happening up on a particular place or activity. <BR>This forum has proven to be an invaluable resource in planning my vacations. I also do research through other sites, guidebooks and magazines. <BR>By the way, I was just in Mark's wonderful city of Prague 2 months ago and actually stayed in a hotel I've never seen mentioned on this forum.

I think Mark has made a point, but not necessarily a valid one. If people don't ask mundane questions from time to time on this forum, all the questions will be very esoteric and this forum will become something else altogether. That may suit Mark, but not the rest of us who need advice on getting from airports or catching trains or where to grab a quick bite to eat before a show. <BR>There are many of us, and some of them have replied here, who find the planning of a trip to be as enjoyable as the actual trip. I read all the posts, even for countries not on my "to visit" list, and I learn something new every time. <BR>As for micromanaging a trip, I have feared recently that I had done that in planning our upcoming trip to Spain. But better I err on the side of being too organized than to have only one night in Cordoba and no place to stay. I am restricted to taking this trip in the summer when our daughter is out of school and the tourist sites will be the most crowded. So, we have reserved our hotels and paradors for each night of our trip. Now I'm relieved that we did because I see that some posters are having problems finding rooms in Barcelona, for instance. I'm feeling rather smug that I took the advice of people in this forum to reserve our rooms far in advance. <BR>Some people like to play things by ear, but it would be like a tourist coming to the States in the summer and thinking they will find a room at the shore after they drive there. They may find a room, but it won't be on the beach, it may not have a pool, it may be miles away from anything they want to see or do. And it will ruin their visit.