Smoking laws - The Bavarian decision
 

Bad or good news. The Bavarian referendum today had the following outcome.

Voter participation: 37.7%
For the new law: 61.0%

Smoking in ALL public places is prohibited from August but the law will not be enforced at this years Oktoberfest. No smoking allowed in restaurants either.

There goes freedom.

Congratulations Bavaria.

Checked again, it's public buildings, so "open air" so far is still legal.

Welcome to the rest of the western world :-)

Finally, freedom from secondhand smoke. That's REAL freedom. The smoking was horrible when we were there 3 years ago. Our hotel lobby was disgusting.

sorry logos, this is one case where the freedom of the non-smoking majority outweighs the freedom of the smoking minority, and I'm with the 61 x 37.7%.

it is positively a joy to be able to go out to pubs and restaurants and not to come home smelling like an ash tray. and as Llinda says, the general public ambience is greatly improved.

Free from smoke. "Here comes freedom." Isn't that what you meant, logos?

Well, this is the 2nd and final change of the law. At first there was a rather strict law. Then bars found ways around it, i.e. by allowing smokers only. Before the last Bavarian election, the government promised people to pass a new, less strict law. Which they did. Those "health concious left wing eco parties" then pressed for a referendum. Which took place today.
The old law were designed to please every group with a "yes but ..." approach.

The new law simply states "No smoking".
Next thing for Oktoberfest would be "No drinking beer". :-) Well, sounds rather good, actually. I wonder how they'll enforce the "No smoking" at Oktoberfest, however.

Freedom from smoke for me! I elect to NOT breathe the smoke. But if smokers prefer it, I'm sure there are plenty of places left for them. I wonder if in the US or any place will ever make it illegal or abusive to smoke around your own children. They should have rights too.

Ever seen a beloved person brain-dead after an infarct caused by smoking? Well, I have. After that, my understanding for smokers, who harm not only themselves but also people around them, has become zero.

The result of the referendum is clear, and if we believe in democracy, this has to be respected. Those who could not be bothered to vote have no right to complain about the result now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8079357.stm

scatcat - here's a link for a movement to ban smoking in cars with children - and quite right too!

logos - why equate beer with tobacco? Generally, my freedom not to drink beer is not infringed by your right to drink it. NOT SO tobacco, use of which impinges on me whether I like it or not.

It's more dangerous to drink beer in a car than it is to smoke in a car.

And I know there are parents who drink with their children in the car with them. The kids have no idea and no choice.

Fortunately, Austria is only 100kms away :-)

I just wonder why we get both from our dear American friends: The tobacco and cigarettes AND the guilt and nannying that/why we smoke it. Hey, if you guys stopped producing the drug, we couldn't smoke it. It's a bit like having your daughter work the streets to let your son study theology LOL

It makes me wonder why American cigarettes are allowed in Europe but not Butterfingers and Mike and Ike and others candies.

I'm not american.

and europe produces its own tobacco - eg in southern Germany.

for once, you can't blame the yanks.

Loss of freedom? Is this Bavaria's first law protecting one person from the actions of another? We are all subject to many laws that stop us from harming others and this is a welcome addition to me. While I am not a Bavarian resident, I will be a visitor in September and am thrilled that I will be able to enjoy myself in restaurants and not come away reeking.

>why American cigarettes are allowed in Europe but not Butterfingers and Mike and Ike and others candies.
I believe it's because people don't expect Butterfingers to kill. They know, American cigarettes kill. ;-).

>Austria
Austrian are free people, they have a law, but people ignore it. It's up to an individual troublemaker to report smokers to the police. The police then takes a note :D.

It's not like you're driving on the Autobahn without a toll sticker.

So as long as the people know that something can kill you, it's okay to sell. I must research to see what is killing me in Butterfingers cause I love them.

Cowboy, Americans didn't have the vote that stopped the smoking in Germany. You can't blame us.

It's easier for people to quit smoking when it's not in every public place for most people. Even though I'm an ex-smoker I still enjoy the odor of a fresh cigarette. They've given me many pleasurable moments. For years after I quit, I'd enjoy a cigarette once or twice a year, usually in Europe.

>what is killing me in Butterfingers cause I love them
Me too, but since they're no longer sold, I should start smoking or eat, drink, inhale some other poison.

The owner of the biggest Oktoberfest tent said that he doesn't mind when people smoke. The waitresses will have to inform them that it is illegal, but he surely won't inform the police or anything.

Seems like the cops will have to make a few more arrests. :D

We had a similar vote in my canton here in Switzerland.

3 out 5 restaurants now have special permission for smoking rooms.

The vote has become a joke.

I am very happy to hear this and wish Austria would follow suit.

A smoking section at least offers people a choice. Allowing smoking in restaurants in Germany and Austria is about the only negative - to us - in traveling in these countries. If the smokers can indulge their habit in a smoking section that is truly cut off from the rest of the restaurant so that those of us who find smoke nasty (especially so around food) do not have to endure it, then IMO it is better than having no option at all.

annhig..

I CAN blame it not only on the Yanks but also on the Brits.
If you wish to burn the few acres of tobacco plants in Germany, feel free to so. But the real villains are in your own backyard:

Big Tobacco is (aside from the Chinese and parts of the Japanese market) a handful of companies based in the US and the UK.

Nicotine addicts worldwide keep those companies alive and kicking, and also the economies they are based in.

I'd find it much more efficient to cut off supply and go after the drug-producing and -trading companies (i.e. Philip Morris Int. and Altria in the US (and to some extent in CH); British American Tobacco and Imperial Tobacco in the UK; Japan Tobacco) -- than to squeeze more taxes out of the consumer, invent a few nice anti-smoking laws, but keep the drug available for the sake of higher tax revenues in the countries which support drug supply.
The latter is pure hypocrisy IMO.

A bummer this won't apply to Oktoberfest this year - would have made my trip more pleasant.

I could care less about the cancer risk from second-hand smoke and don't care if smokers kill themselves - I just hate the smell of it in my lederhosen.

If you knew how real lederhosen get broken in, you would not worry about the smell of SMOKE :-))

<i>I just hate the smell of it in my lederhosen.</i>

Just before a trip to Germany I had my swede jacket cleaned. After a night in a couple of smokey D&uuml;sseldorf jazz clubs I hung the jacket in the closet overnight. On opening the closet door the next morning I was almost knocked over by the stink.

Just before a trip to Germany I had my swede jacket cleaned.>>

spaarne - is that the jacket that makes you look a proper turnip? [I think you mean "suede" jacket].

ho, ho, ho.