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msdnjn Jan 1st, 2004 08:08 PM

Smart casual?
 
I know this is a simple minded question, but after reading the guide books for London, I still do not know what "smart,casual dress" means in London. Obviously in the US that means one thing in NYC and another in Dallas. Somebody explain to this ignorant person please.

Underhill Jan 1st, 2004 08:30 PM

"Smart casual dress" comes under the same heading as a term once used by a Swiss guide: "elegant California casual." As you so rightly point out, that means very different things to different people, and it's not at all a simple-minded question.

London is a major world capital, and dress is accordingly sophisticated. You clearly want to dress appropriately and blend in. So--British women wear tailored dresses more than pants most of the time, or skirts and sweaters. Pastels and plaids are not uncommon, and color in general is seen more than the black of Paris and New York. If your wardrobe is short ondresses, you might think about picking up a delectable outfit at Liberty in one of the glorious prints for which the firm is world famous. A tailored pantsuit can work nicely too, and you will certainly want one dressy outfit for the theater. Err on the side of conservatism and you will feel well dressed in London.

Judy_in_Calgary Jan 1st, 2004 08:38 PM

Hi Msdnjn,

Underhill has provided the answer for a woman, but I don't know if you're a man or a woman. Anyway, even if you're a woman, it might not do any harm to go through this exercise for a man as well.

Let's suppose a man wants to be admitted to a golf club or similar establishment for lunch. I would recommend leather or suede lace-up shoes (no runners, or trainers in British English, no sandals). Yes to khaki cotton pants, e.g., Dockers, and no to jeans. Yes to a shirt with a collar, no to a T-shirt. Yes to a blazer or sports coat.

In the evening I would suggest dressing up even a little more. Instead of khaki cotton pants, wear tailored wool pants or similar. I would consider a cravat or ascot to be optional (that's a thing that's worn around the neck that's more casual than a tie).

Oh, I nearly forgot, no head covering indoors (no cowboy hats, unlike certain cities that will go unnamed :) ).

I'm middle aged, and have absolutely no idea what smart casual dress means in the context of a Hip Hop Club or something like that.

kimerley Jan 1st, 2004 11:54 PM

For men:think Hugh Grant
For women:think Patsy from "Ab Fab"..(lol)
smart casual for all is usually clothing made of wool/cotton/cashmere/silk/linen ...no polyester. Always leather shoes,be them laceups, high heels, mules, boots..make sure the heels of your shoes are perfect...one judges a person from their shoes (seriously!)

Sylvia Jan 2nd, 2004 12:35 AM

Kimerley, we are obviously shoe soul mates.
I always notice shoes and it's a detail many people forget. I can remember being in a restaurant and noticing a couple of very well dressed women. My glance went down to their shoes and they were wearing high heels with the leather pushed back into little rolls. To me they were no longer well dressed.
It can happen in people being interviewed for jobs, smart suit but unpolished shoes. I would always be impressed by a pair of beautifully polished shoes even if they were old shoes.
Smart casual is quite a difficult one. I'd think that a dress and jacket was smart rather than smart casual.
I went to a couple of concerts when I was in London. One was in the Wigmore Hall, quite a formal sort of concert hall: I wore a dress, jacket and high heels for that one. The other was in Saint Martin in the Fields, far less formal. I wore a pair of lightweight trousers and cotton blouse to that one.
I was amused about the hats indoors thing. Quite often in TV "historic" dramas, you'll see a man wearing his hat indoors. I'm in my sixties and in my youth, my brother and other little boys were always told that you took off your cap when going into a building and you took it off when talking to a lady.
Times have certainly changed!

kimerley Jan 2nd, 2004 01:19 PM

Hi Sylvia, good to find another "sole" mate!
About 5 years ago in London, there was an unwritten rule that "suits" did not gain entry into the smarter clubs.Something about them being uncouth..
My brother and I were allowed entry into the Met bar in Jeans, shirt and of course high quality leather boots! The people behind us who were dressed quite formally were not allowed in...

ira Jan 2nd, 2004 01:25 PM

Along those lines, I have found that dressinglike a slob and wearing boat shoes, in areas where boats are important, gets you a table anywhere.

After all, you might own that huge boat out there.

PatrickLondon Jan 3rd, 2004 04:18 AM

Interesting (to a defiantly unhip 55-year old male). To me, "smart casual" means not necessarily a jacket or a tie, probably not jeans, certainly not trainers or sportswear - and whatever you wear clean, pressed/polished (as appropriate).

Degas Jan 3rd, 2004 04:40 AM

Men's Smart & Casual: hemmed bluejean shorts (no holes in rear), hemmed black muscle T-Shirt, wide Rhinestone studded black belt with American Flag buckle, mid-calf off-white socks with non-logo white tennis shoes, and extra gel for slicked back hair with just a scant overlay of holding spray.

Note: In Paris, tie small, but very colorful tablecloth around your neck with a snug french twist knot.

Patrick Jan 3rd, 2004 04:51 AM

Oh, Degas, you trend-setter, you.

Kimerley, "no polyester". Does that mean I have to leave my wonderful Bill Blass microfiber dress slacks at home? The ones that travel like magic?

ChatNoir Jan 3rd, 2004 05:13 AM

Degas, I heard your lime green leisure suit with a thin white belt and white sandals also caused quite a stir in the south of France. Adding a wide brimmed "Planters" hat and a ruffled, blood red "pirate shirt" was very innovative!

Scarlett Jan 3rd, 2004 05:20 AM

Then according to the ever spiffy Degas, I can wear my new baby blue velour Juicy Couture jogging outfit? It matches?? I will wear the blue and white trainers to be co-ordinated :)

Jayne11159 Jan 3rd, 2004 09:11 AM

Degas, I'm surprised that you omitted the thick gold chains in varying lengths; some with large gold charms indicating their occupation or interests. Maybe wisely so--we don't want to make them targets for pickpockets etc.

uhoh_busted Jan 3rd, 2004 09:26 AM

Scarlett of COURSE you can! I wore my burgandy velour hoodie-suit all over LA. It has an initial "D" on the jacket in rhinestones. I was SO in. :)

Scarlett Jan 3rd, 2004 03:36 PM

Should I get a necklaces with a Big S spelled out in diamonds LOL~

Scarlett Jan 3rd, 2004 03:36 PM

Jeeez , that made no sense at all..an S spelled out?
Oh well, you know what I mean :)

kimerley Jan 4th, 2004 09:21 PM

Patrick, I hope that you don't wear your "Bill Blass microfibre dress slacks" with the label showing...terribly crass..
But if they really do travel like magic then the fashion police may make an exception (lol)

craycraft Jan 5th, 2004 08:40 AM

Okay, I know I'm going to be yelled at, but Underhill's advice and some of the subsequent replies seem to err on the side of overly formal. I see the term "smart casual" used for places like the Dorchester bar and for theatres, but when I've been in London for the past few years, a jean skirt (NOT jeans) or black casual pants are not a bit out of place in either location. I've never worn a dress anywhere (of course I don't get invited to premieres and the like), or even a fancy skirt. Movie stars get away with wearing just about anything (even at Claridge's), so act aloof and famous if anyone looks at you askance. So much of this is in your attitude!


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