Ozarksbill

OK, a closer look at your itinerary with a (final) response! I do see now that you are headed north to C. Mayo and then Belfast so the Rock of
Cashel is actually out of your way (inasmuch as you aren't going Shannon-Dublin or south). Of course, kalalena has just given you the "why" as to Cashel.

But moving on, I would ask you to plan carefully what you will be doing in Belfast and Dublin. I applaud your history interest which is also ours and agree about seeing Kilmainham Gaol, National Museum, Book of Kells, and you might add Christ Church with attached museum, also Post Office (site of 1917 rebellion with photos), the Writer's Museum, Abbey Theatre if N of the Liffey on O'Connell St.

My new plea: don't miss Newgrange/
Knowth since it is right on the way Belfast to Dublin (nonesense about claustrophobia, at least at Knowth). This is REAL history, Neolithic, i.e.
Also Trim Castle nearby. Could be a day trip as with a must: Glendalough.

You will find lots of trad music here and there, I'm sure. BTW, where does your family live?

ozarksbill
in Springfield, MO

hester

Bob, Thank you so much for your help. Melissa 5, I found this website after I started looking after Bob's nice post. www.irishroots.net/STipp.htm it might help in your search for Boru's history.

Leslie

Laoghaire

Melissa... If you have any interest in Brian Boru ( my very favorite Irishman, next to Michael Collins!), you must visit the area of Killaloe, in east Clare and west Tipperary. This is Boru Country. We have been there several times; hunting for his old ring fort, searching for the Brian Boru Tree, and the hill he was first crowned Area King. There is a church in Tuamgraney that he walked in. So much history. He was my fav because he was the first King who tried to unite all of Ireland, as all the small factions were fighting each other instead of the Vikings.
Have you read "Lion of Ireland" by Morgan Llywelyn? A must read. Also Brian Boru, King of Ireland by Roger Chatterton Newman.

kakalena....amen to what you wrote! It doesn't get much better than that!! Helen

39Steps

Melissa - I liked your original itinerary and would suggest you skip the Rock of Cashel on this trip. You've got plenty of driving on your plate already; take the "we'll be back" approach when you can see the Rock and add in other area highlights such as Waterford and Cork.

Itallian_Chauffer

Some key Irish genealogical sites
(and Antrim, in particular):

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/F...12/antrim.html

http://tiara.ie/links.html

http://irelandgenealogyprojects.rootsweb.com

Hope this helps ...
Bob

Melissa5

Thank you to all for some fantastic information here! I want to say more but am so behind, just spent weekend supporting heart-broken daughter who just broke up with evil boyfriend. I'm glad she has next summer in Ireland to look forward to! I just sent her a neat web-site where you can hear Irish Gaelic pronunciations. (I told her I found her an Irishman who speaks only when you want him to, and says only what you choose for him to say!!!)

If anybody wants to check it out, it's at http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/ and if you click on sayings, which should be in red, you can choose what you want to hear, with a male voice speaking. Educational fun! I learned about the web-site from Michele Erdvig at www.IrelandYes.com

Just wanted everyone to know I sure appreciate this discussion.

Melissa5

kakalena, bravo, very well put! I agree you have captured the spirit of a trip to Ireland in your reply.

Cashel would mean more to me than it would to my family. Daughters are excited about Ireland trip but they are college students and no time for trip research, they leave that to me. Just include some city time, some country time, and some pubs, they have advised me. Hubby is mostly looking forward to nature, such as The Burren and the old Palm House in Belfast.

I think I would prefer to either skip the Rock of Cashel, or else spend 2 or 3 nights in the area, exploring. But I seem to have allocated our nights elsewhere in Ireland!

It looks like I would have to skip Dublin to see Cashel and still keep the relaxed pace that our family enjoys. I really want to see Killmainham Gaol and National Museum of Archaeology in dublin though. Tough choices... Also hoping to see Trim Castle maybe on the way from Belfast to dublin.

OZARKSBILL: You have just named all the reasons why I am trying to hang onto my original plan of 3 nights in Dublin! We live in San Diego, California by the way. And I agree big city visits (Dublin, Belfast) need to be well-planned. One can meander about the countryside but a city visit needs a lot of research and scheduling, with time allowed for getting lost as well.

It's pretty much a choice of leaving out one of these 3: Dublin, Rock of Cashel, or County Mayo. I like keeping County Mayo for 3 reasons: hubby will like the nature up there like Killary Harbor and Achill island I think; also it sounds a bit less crowded than the Must-See destinations like Rock of Cashel and cliffs of Moher, and we will be facing the July crowds. third reason for County Mayo is the trad music in Westport, a fun lively town I know my young adult daughters will like.

Dublin has the history too, plus places like the Dublin Writer's Museum (3 writers in the family!)

And the Rock of Cashel is steeped in history too...

HESTER and LAOGHAIRE: Thanks for the tips on checking into Brian Boru! Great-grandpa's bones are rattling in his grave, he is very excited about this idea. (Wow, scared myself, that was macabre.) I have been wanting to check into east Clare area as I think we might have a branch of Irish family from that area, plus it's Brian Boru's old stomping ground as you pointed out. Laoghaire, I want to check into Killaloe area as you suggested. Haven't had a chance yet. Can this be a day-trip from Ballyvaughan?

39steps: Thanks for your vote for my original itinerary! One thing our family does agree on, we don't like moving around too fast, even my young adult daughters said they like 3-night stays. (Of course they're trusting me to settle them somewhere interesting with lots to explore!)

This has been a fun topic for me to explore. Thanks for everyone's help. I'm sure your answers will help others who are wondering about the Rock of Cashel.

I guess I know the Rock of Cashel is special, but I don't want to spend all of our time going from one crowded Must-See sight to another. It sounds like in County Mayo we can find some spots which are less crowded, and that will be a nice change of pace. Would love to get up to Donegal but too much for this trip (unless we skipped Dingle but I know my family will enjoy dingle.)

Itallian_Chauffer

This seems like such an OBVIOUS answer -- of couse you should skip Cashel, since you are also skipping Cohb, Kinsale, Waterford, Lismore, Wicklow, West Cork (Mallin Head, Sheep's Head, Bearra), Millstreet, Kenmare, Glenngarrif, Baltimore, Bantry, etc, etc ...
You can pick up Cashel on your SECOND (or THIRD!)trip.

Seriously, since you are concentrating on the NorthWest and the North (with Dingle and Dublin thrown in, for good measure), your itinerary, sans Cashel, seems quite appropriate for the time you have. If I were you, I would only be tempted to shave time from somewhere else, in order to add in Donegal, seeing as you will be RELATIVELY close, and less likely to travel 'that far north' on a subsequent trip.
You could forgo the 1st night stay in Bunratty (wrong direction), or Ennis (half-way to the Burren), then insert a one night 'travel break' in Donegal town, between Westport and Belfast.
This is why I rarely prebook my B&B's .. Sometimes the grass REALLY IS GREENER, just down the road ...

Bob

12perfectdays

Hi Melissa5,
I was originally going to say that Cashel was great and you should try to make time but in further review of the previous posts, I agree with I.C. above. Skip Cashel this trip and make it on your next. We had one day there and really loved it. It deserves more time and trust me, no matter what your plans are for future vacations after this visit it will most likely change to another visit. Very easy to fall in love with Ireland!!!

All thoughts of Italy or a cruise have now flown out the window and I am working on another trip to Ireland to see other things that we missed and linger in a few of the places (like Cashel) that we loved.

Dawn

irishexpert

i am from cashel and looking at it right now through my window as the snow falls on it and the distant mountains are glowing with the soft evening sun... it is probably the most spectacular sigh tin the world...why would you want to miss that....ignore the begrudgers

Snoopy

Melissa5,

I'm curious because this type of question is asked so often . . . what could have been said to change your itinerary? Clearly you'd thought about your itinerary and janisj seems to capture the most well rounded thinking.

I've been to Cashel twice, once in the early 70's (my wife locked the keys in our rental car and a local helped us unlock the car and invited us to his house for dinner) and again 2 years ago (it was raining and cold and I slipped and bruised my knee badly, limped to the car and stopped at the first pub we saw, met an Irish doctor whose medical advice was to have another Guiness . . . and he paid for it). So essentially, I've had two bad experiences there or, from another perspective, two wonderful experiences there. Though my "experiences" don't change the appeal or lack of appeal of the Rock . . .what were you expecting to hear in response to your question?

Melissa5

Snoopy, my question was designed to invite lots of responses, which is exactly what it accomplished! That is how I always design my questions. I am not looking for any particular answer, I am looking for a great variety of answers, and that gives me a more complete sense of the place which I am inquiring about.

There isn't any perfect right or wrong itinerary. But after reading about a variety of people's unique experiences and perspectives, you gain a greater "sense" of a place, and as a result whatever itinerary you put together for your family will be designed to interest, delight, and enchant them.

I also posted a question (earlier) about Dublin which had a great variety of answers. These types of questions and answers help me decide how to put together a first trip my family will enjoy. (And often give me plenty of info for a second trip if that should be in our future!)

Melissa5

irishexpert, what a poetic description of beautiful Cashel in the winter. You are indeed fortunate to see such a sight from your window! Why would I wish to miss this? I wouldn't! I wish I could see it too.

Melissa5

Itallian_Chauffeur, you have made a good point. You say that on a subsequent trip I would be less likely to travel as far north as Donegal.

Hmmmm...since I am spreading my itinerary as far south as Dingle and as far north as Belfast, I would have the same problem on the next trip...wanting to go as far south as Baltimore/Skibbereen and Kenmare, and as far north as Donegal and also Antrim on a second trip, creating the same problems with travel time and decisions! You certainly raise a good point for including Donegal in this visit.

And to make the decision even harder, just when I thought perhaps it was all right to skip Cashel this time, my older daughter saw a photo of Cashel and insists we have to go there. (I should point out she hasn't done any research, just happened to open my new Ireland calendar and happened upon the photo of Cashel!)

But on the other hand she also saw a photo of Dunluce (my memory fails me here, is that in NORthern Ireland I think?) and another photo which I think is Kylemore Abbey. Obviously her eye was caught by castle-type ruins.

I'm not going to abandon all my research because she happened upon this photo, but I will try to make sure there is some sort of impressive castle/ruins for her to enjoy. (they all understand that if they want a lot of say in the itinerary, they have to put a little time into early research with me, otherwise they have to trust me. for Italy and Costa Rica they all spent at least a litte time helping me with research. For Ireland they all just said they didn't have time ane they trusted me! Hubby said include some nature for him where possible and daughters said include pubs, and both city and country life.

Anyway I"m babbling away here, thanks everyone!

Melissa5

I re-considered my itinerary and tried to add the Rock of Cashel, taking the nights away from Dublin.

But Cashel doesn't fit without wrecking my plan to visit Dingle and County Clare (including Cliffs of Moher) on weekdays as opposed to weekends. (Summer weekends are always more crowded everywhere in tourist areas.) Also both Dingle town and some villages in County Clare have some interesting music/dance scheduled for certain weekdays.

Instead, I realized I can add 2 nights up in Bushmills, Northern Ireland. This allows us to see Giant's Causeway, Dunluce Castle, and the Glens of Antrim.

The reason we decided to skip Dublin this time is that we would be there on a July weekend, which means crowds and more noise...And since on a future trip to Ireland we would fly into or out of Dublin, it would be easy to visit Dublin on another trip, maybe in September, which would be less crowded. Whereas maybe we wouldn't get as far north as Giant's Causeway again.

So, does anybody have a comment on whether seeing Giant's Causeway and Dunluce Castle and Glens of Antrim are equal to giving up Rock of Cashel?! And are worth giving up Dublin for this trip?

This is the revised itinerary:

Fly into Shannon.
1 night: Ennis or Bunratty
3 nights: Dingle Peninsula
3 nights: County Clare (base: Ballyvaughan)
3 nights: County Mayo (base: Westport)
2 nights: Bushmills, County Antrim
(visit Dunluce castle, Giant's causeway, Glens of Antrim.)
2 nights: Belfast or Newtownards, Northern Ireland (grandmother grew up in Belfast)
1 night: Trim or Malahide
Fly home from Dublin airport.

Thanks for everyone's help on fodors! It's so great to talk to people who have travelled to Ireland or who live there. I have gotten so many great tips, and heard many magical tales of your experiences in Ireland.

lawchick

Forget about the Rock of Cashel - but I would also forget this Trim/Malahide idea and would stay in Dublin.

You should visit the General Register office in NI in relation to tracking down your family tree.
http://www.groni.gov.uk/index.htm

Ozarksbill

Melissa5...are you ever going to make up your mind? You are constantly revising your plans...which is OK of course since you want to do everything!!!

Listen, you might as well face up to the fact that you can't see everything. So now it is miss Dublin as well as Rock of Cashel, still include Co. Mayo, so to do more in Co. Antrim because Grandma came from Belfast?

BTW, how much actual knowledge do you have about this ancestor other than the general idea that she came from "near Belfast?" I have lots of ancestral roots but don't know EXACTLY where they came from so likely wouldn't bother.

ozarksbill

Melissa5

Ozarksbill, I always plan trips this way, endless research and multiple revisions!

It works well for us, as the trips turn out great. Plus I enjoy the research. Also I think better in print than I do just in my head! So while I'm typing I'm thinking.

I have found Ireland more challenging to plan than Italy was. Italy is more obvious...Rome, Florence, and Venice are obvious and great choices. You could happily spend an entire week (or a whole month) in Rome and never see it all. But Ireland...little villages scattered all about along narrow country roads...castles scattered here and there...

Plus there is the bittersweet knowledge that this could be the last "family" trip where both my daughters are able and willing to accompany us. (Already my son won't be coming with us this time...he has grauated from college and is working full time now. This will be th first major family trip without my son!

When you start imagining this trip might be the last of special times, it becomes more difficult to decide what to include and what to leave out!

Melissa5

Ozarksbill, forgot to answer your questions about my "ancestors"...I know that grandmother grew up in a house in Belfast, on a street which recently has apparently been turned into apartments! I know that she was born in nearby Lurgan area, but Lurgan has totally changed from what it was when she was born there...

We also know that hubby's great-grandmother was from County Mayo, and hubby's uncle is in contact with some relations in County Mayo, which I may contact as well. Thus it makes sense to visit County Mayo for multiple reasons (Westport, relations, and beauty of Killary Harbor, Achill island, Clare island, etc.)

I honestly would be just as content with leaving Belfast out, as I think of all of Ireland as grandmother's birthplace, but hubby is insistent that we include Belfast. He wants to see the portion of the museum (east of Belfast) that includes the titanic museum (Ulster folk and transport museum near Bangor), and he wants to see the Palm House portion of the Belfast Botanic Gardens. (Hubby the biologist loves botanic gardens and can spend endless hours there. We shall have to extricate him from the garden before he grows roots there. Plus the Palm House is very old which entices him even more, it was there when my grandmother lived in Belfast.)

Now, I have no proof of this, but I am intrigued by the knowledge that families with the same last names that appear in our ancestry originally came from these counties: County Galway; County Clare; County Mayo. Thus, possessing an emormous imagination, I would very much enjoy visiting these areas, which I found very appealing in my research, and imagining that my ancient ancestors came from there, whether I have proof or not. My older daughter and I enjoy reading fantasy and writing it. Actually both daughters are english/creative writing majors at present. It's great to have an imagination, because what you don't have, you can create!

So, in my itinerary, I need to make sure I have sprinkled a bit of those places which stimulate the imagination, which are evocative of Ireland...Rock of Cashel was once of those places I have been hoping all along to include.

But as I mentioned, it has presented various practical difficulties in the planning.

When we visit a country as a family, we like to experience what is unique in that country. For Ireland, one of the unique aspects is the pubs, the way that they seem to be a community center, a place to gather for the "craic", to meet people, and to hear local Irish musicians play. This is something unique to Ireland that we would like to experience. If I were looking for the "craic" in San Diego, I definitely wouldn't head for our local bars, I can tell you that for sure. In fact I don't think we have a place that seems designed for both neighbors and strangers of all ages to congretate and meet each other. Furthermore, many San Diegans don't even know their neighbors at all, never talk to them, and don't have a place to meet them!

So we like to define what unique experiences we would like to have in a country on our travels, and this is the #1 experience for Ireland that intrigues us.

If you have anything to add that is unique to Ireland, I would be very open to hearing about it.

For Costa Rica it was walking in relatively pristine rainforest and cloud forests, and finding out what "Pura Vida" is all about. We also were interested in finding out what the people were like in a country which has the best education and medical care of all the countries in this part of the world, and still has a consciousness of the importance of protecting natural resources.

For Italy it was being in a city like Rome where the ancient co-exists right alongside of the modern...visiting places where famous people lived like Michelangelo who have had an impact upon the world...

Thanks for listening to my travel talk!

12perfectdays

Melissa5,
I am currently working on my pictures from Ireland in October and have posted my top 30 favorites on Ofoto.com. Ironically about 6-8 of them are of Cashel. I would love to post the link here but am unsure if you will be able to access.

It really is an amazing place and our favorite B&B (Joy's Rockside) is there as well. It's a tough decision but I absolutely loved it and only wish we had taken a couple of days there!

Maybe I will take a moment or two and see if I can get the photo's posted here for you. Cross your fingers!