Six Nights in the South of France - Itinerary Help Please!
 

I'm in the process of planning for our trip this October which includes six nights in the South of France. The must do's on our list are: visit the Pont du Gard, follow the ghost of van Gogh, and eat bouillabaisse in Marseille. We prefer to travel by train. There will be 3 adults, and none of us really want to drive. We enjoy history and really like looking at old stuff. Unfortunately, I will be travelling with beer drinkers, so taking in the wine of the region is not a priority.

Our plans that we came up with so far are:
Sat - Train from Antwerp to Nimes - Hotel Nimes
Sun - Bus to Uzes - Hotel Nimes
Mon - Bus to Pont du Gard - Hotel Nimes
Tues - Train to Arles - Hotel Arles
Wed - Bus to St. Remy de Provence - Hotel Arles
Thurs - Train to Marseille - Eat bouillabaisse - Hotel Marseille
Fri - Train to Paris

In my research, I'm finding the bus lines to the towns we want to visit very limited. Quite frankly, I'm not even sure if the lines I'm looking at will be running in October, or during the weekend, since the timetables are in French, and I'm a language-challenged American. <b>Has anybody taken public transportation to visit the Pont du Gard, Uzes, and/or St. Remy, and can help me with the timetables?</b>

On a recent trip to Germany, we hired a car and driver to take us to several places we wanted to see which were hard to get to by public transportation. <b>Are there any private tour guides that can be recommended for the area?</b>

Uzes and St. Remy are not a "Must See" and could be replaced by other towns which are accessible by train, although we don't want to do too many one nighters. <b>Can anyone come up with an alternative train itinerary that would include our Must Sees?</b>

Finally, last question... if we did concede, and decide to rent a car, <b>what is an average price to expect for a 2 or 3 day rental, and where is the best place to go to rent a car?</b>

Robyn :)>-

Rent a car !!! Do you drive a car in the USA ????

Do car research on www.autoeurope.com

Stu Dudley

Yes, I agree--trying to take trains and busses around Provence will make you very unhappy indeed. You must rent a car or, better still, hire a guide/driver. I can recommend some GREAT people if you want to email me. You'll spend a bit more $ but your experience will be so much easier and richer. Also, check out my Provence site: www.provencepost.com. You'll find lots of info there and things you might want to do while you're in the region. Best Wishes and have fun! Julie (www.provencepost.com)

I'm sure there are people who've managed to visit Provence without a car, but I can't imagine how much one would miss out on. Really, Provence isn't so much about the destinations as it is about the whole look and feel of the landscape, the passing through villages, the shadows on the stones, the fields of sunflowers and lavender, the coming across the absolutely perfect spot and pulling over to drink it in.

AND public transportation is limited to the point where it would be massively aggravating, to me at least, to try to plan around it.

Rent a car. You'll be so glad you did. There is nothing even remotely scary about driving in Provence.

Hi Artstuff,

I wish I could come with you, but I did the trip last summer! I went hiking with this UK company that specialise in the region. They took me on a memorable guided hike of the Pont du Gard and they would customise something for you.

See:
http://www.enlightened-traveller.co....e5c6&pgId=1001

Salut!

Thank you, all, for your responses. Okay, here's the deal on why we don't want to rent a car...

In the reality of our daily life, the three of us are tied to our vehicles, probably driving 40,000-50,000 miles each year cumulatively. So we know how to drive, and are certainly not afraid to, we just don't want to, particularly on our holiday. Both my husband and our travelling companion are tradesmen, and work 8-10 hours a day out of a vehicle. We live in a rural area, with absolutely NO public transportation, and must drive distances to get anywhere.

One of the reasons we enjoy travelling in Europe is their wonderful public transportation system. (Thanks to the Marshall Plan after WWII, Europe built a wonderful infrastructure with their train system, at the same time, the Eisenhower plan in the US was replacing our existing train system with an interstate system). We've taken buses in the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria, and Italy, and have met some of the most interesting people along the way - folks who became our travelling companions for those distances between Point A & B. These are some of our fondest memories.

Anyway, as I've been doing my research on the bus system in the South of France, I'm realizing my options are limited. But the train still goes to lots of places we've never been before, so I think we will just adjust our plan. Now we are thinking of giving up Uzes and St. Remy, and spending two nights in Carcassone.

Thank you for the links to the different websites. I will check them out.

StCirq mentions <i>the fields of sunflowers and lavender...</i> We will be travelling in October. Will they still be in bloom?

Robyn :)>-

Oh dear. See? This is why using public transportation is a total bummer in Provence. You absolutely do NOT want to spend two nights in Carcassonne. No, no, no. Giving up Uzès and St-Rémy is nonsense. Just because a train goes to Carcassonne does not mean it's a good idea. For Carcassonne, if you even want to include it in a trip to Provence, you want to get there in the early morning and be out by noon.

You really want a car. Trust me.

No, you won't see lavender and sunflowers in October.

>>giving up Uzes and St. Remy, and spending two nights in Carcassone.<<

It seems that if you go to Carcassonne, you really only have 3 days in Provence - and two of those are Sunday & Monday morning when most shops are closed & the cities/villages are not as alive & inviting as they are other days. One of those 3 days you plan to spend in Marseille too. That's not much time in Provence at all - especially with the time you'll loose by not having a car. You really won't see much of the little perched villages and charming countryside which make Provence so wonderful.

Lots of people are underwhelmed with Carcassonne. I happen to like it, but IMO it's only a 3 hr visit max. After 3 hrs, the cutesy-touristy stuff starts to get to me plus I've usually seen everything by then (we've visited it twice). I'm sure that you know from your research that getting from Carcassonne to Paris is more complicated & time consuming than getting from Avignon, Nimes, or Marseille to Paris.

I encourage you to rethink your itinerary and/or mode of travel.

Stu Dudley

Thank you, Stu & StCirq, for your replies, and gentle prodding. The three of us travelling together will obviously have to sit down and have another planning session on what we want to do. It looks like if we want to spend our extra time exploring Provence, we will need to rent a car.

If I may ask, how would you plan an itinerary for the six nights, hitting our Must See spots (Marseille, Arles, and Pont du Gard), on the right days, with the minimum amount of driving? If I can present a low-key driving itinerary to my travelling group, it might help to close the deal on renting a car.

Robyn :)>-

Sat - Train to Avignon TGV station, pick up car & stay in St Remy (very short drive)

Sun - Market in l'Isle sur la Sorgue in the AM. Les Baux in the afternoon. You'll have plenty of time to visit St Remy if you're staying there. Most shops are open in St Remy & les Baux on Sunday.

Mon - Many of my wife's favorite shops in St Remy will be closed in the AM or all day. Visit the Pont du Gard in the AM, and Uzes in the afternoon. Perhaps have lunch in Uzes. Short visit to Castillon du Gard. Stay in St Remy

Tues - Arles in the morning & early afternoon. Drive over to the Luberon & visit Gordes & Roussillon if there is time left in the day. Stay in the Luberon (Gordes, Roussillon, or Bonnieux)

Wed - visit Lourmarin & explore the Luberon some more.

Thurs - train from Avignon to Marseille. You may be able to pick up the train in Cavaillon or l'Isle/Fontaine stations also. Stay in the Luberon.

Friday - Train from Avignon to Paris.

Stu Dudley

Almost forgot - do you have my 27 page itinerary for the Cote d'Azur & Provence?? I've sent it to close to 1,000 AOL & Fodors people. It has more detail about exploring the Luberon, markets, etc. E-mail me at [email protected] if you want a copy. Do so soon - we're leaving for a month in France within 2 weeks from now.

Stu Dudley

Oops - you could stay Thurs night in Marseille instead of the Luberon if you don't mind changing hotels.

Stu Dudley

My husband and I drove through the south of France with the road guide of a travel service. He provided us with all the directions and a variety of destinations. His plans were fabulous. We saw things we never would of seen or thought to see. He set us up in fabulous places (mostly B&Bs) because of what we requested. If you are interested in him please let me know...not sure if I am allowed to give out the info??? oh well...C'est la vie.....http://www.france.co.nz/

Stu - Thank you for taking the time to put together an itinerary. That gives me a good tool for pitching the driving idea (again) to my travelling companions. I will e-mail you soon to request your itinerary. Thank you for the offer.

overbuget - Thank you for the information. I will check out the link.

Robyn :)>-

No offense to the poster who did this, but there is absolutely no need to pay a "travel service" to show you the hidden gems of Provence. With all of the internet, and particularly Fodors to help you, you can get set up in fabulous places and see things you'd never dreamed you'd see too. It's not rocket science, it's research.

Which you are onviously doing. And that's a good thing.

<b>UPDATE</b> - Our travelling group of 3 recently had another planning session, and I read all of your responses to this thread to my travel partners, and our friend said, <i>"Well that's it, we'll just have to rent a car. I'll drive. So where can we go?".</i>

So I handed my DK Eyewitness Guide to France to our friend, and showed him the section for Provence and the Cote D'Azur, and told him to pick a place. Well, he chose the Route des Cretes in the Gorges du Verdon!!!

And I thought you said there was nothing scary about driving in Provence, StCirq. :S- BTW, I must agree with your last comment concerning a "travel service". Research and planning a trip is perhaps as much fun as actually taking the journey.

Anyway, we're also kicking around driving across the Millau Bridge (which would be my choice of the two, since I did I Children's Museum exhibit on "building", and the Millau Bridge was featured).

This is our latest itinerary:

Sat - Train to Marseille, eat bouillabaisse - Hotel Marseille
Sun - Boat trip to Calenques - Hotel Marseille
Mon - Pick up car, drive to Arles, drive to Glanum - Hotel St. Remy
Tues - Drive to Gordes, Luberon area, Les Baux - Hotel St. Remy
Wed - Drive to Pont du Gard, Uzes, Nimes - Hotel St. Remy
Thurs - Drive Gorge du Verdon OR Millau Bridge
Fri - Drive to Avignon, return car, train to Paris

Any comments?

Stu - I received your itinerary and it was filled with an incredible amount of information, however, it also made me realize how little time we have, and how much there is to explore in the Provence area. Have a safe and wonderful time on your upcoming trip, and thanks for your help.

Robyn :)>-

Whoops! I forgot.. Thursday would be - Hotel St Remy

Robyn :)>-

Have you read up on Marseille? It has a pretty gritty feel to it in some places and isn't everyone's cup of tea. I'd be worried that if you and your companions took a train from Antwerp to Marseille, they'd be a bit shocked upon arrival. It's experiencing a transformation right now, and that's good, but it's far from lovely. And I hope you know you don't have to go there to eat boullabaise. That can be had all over the region. I guess it's a matter of how much weight you place on having "authentic Marseillaise boullabaise" compared with how much weight you place on being in a pretty place.

And it would be a fairly long day to do the Millau Bridge or the Gorges du Verdon.

This is quite an improvement, though, and I'm glad you and your friends are OK with driving. You won't regret it.

Thanks for hanging in there with me, StCirq. The whole reason that we're even going to the south of France is to eat bouillabaisse in Marseille, so that's a non-negotiable destination, but thanks for the warning.

A little background... After several years of listening to my DH & I talk about our travels in Europe, our friend finally took us up on our offer to take him with us on our next trip. When we asked him what he wanted to see/do, his answer was visit Amsterdam, drink beer in Belgium, and ride high speed rail lines to somewhere.

Our friend is a graduate of the C.I.A. (Culinary Institute of America), and spent time learning to make bouillabaise while in school, so when he saw that the high speed TGV rail line went to Marseille, he wanted to go there and eat authentic bouillabaise. And so, the south of France became our destination. It's an area that wasn't even on our wish list of places to visit, so it's been exciting for me to do research and learn about the history, customs, geography, and (lack of) transportation in the area. I certainly appreciate your help.

Since this trip is a collaboration of the three of us, our friend gets bouillabaisse in Marseille, my husband the plumber gets to pay homage to the Roman plumbers at the Pont du Gard, and I get to chase the ghost of van Gogh in Arles & St. Remy (and Paris & Amsterdam).

Robyn :)>-

Just to assuage your fears (if you have them), I have arrived and departed from the train station in Marseille and didn't think it was bad at all. I do have a friend who <i>stayed</i> right by the station in a cheapo hotel about ten years ago when we were all in our 20s and found it kind of rough. However, arriving there won't freak anyone out.

Have a fun trip, Robyn!

Go for it!

read my entry Ah Provence
we had a car v expensive if you don't drive stick shift but the small towns were really wonderful

Hello Robyn,

Hope I am not too late in my reply. I offer reasonably priced private tours, in my car or yours, throughout Provence. I live near Saint Remy and offer a fabulous 1/2 day tour of Arles and les Alpilles where we follow the footsteps of Van Gogh. I also do day trips to Uzes and Pont du Gard, and Avignon.
I offer free travel advice and pre-trip planning regarding restaurants and where to stay, with the advanced booking of one tour. www.experience-provence.com contact me on [email protected]. All the best, Jane

Hi Robyn,
We stayed in Aups a few years ago and did a day trip to the Gorge de Verdon from there, it was a very easy drive with fabulous scenery and a magnificent day! Aups is a very cute town too.

Have a great trip!

Hi Robyn

I'm new to this Fodors website and I saw how you have bolded some of your text. Please tell me how you do that...also underlining if you know..
Thanks.

marking

If you really want to see Millau you could do the drive through the Tarn Gorge between Ales and Millau, rather than Verdun gorge which is in another direction entirely. Drive could be done in a day but not there and back in a day. Train connections back to Paris from Millau/Albi/Toulouse take much longer than from Avignon. Realistically this would add 2 days to your trip, one day through Tarn Gorge to Millau, 2nd day loop back through Carcassone. I think you'd have to give up one of your days in Provence to make this worthwhile. With only 6 days I'd choose to stay in Provence the whole time.

bookmark

Carolline:
You can use HTML code to bold or underline your text.

Example: Say you want to bold the word "Paris". You would write
< b>Paris</ b>
...except you wouldn't put the spaces before the b's. I did that just so you could see the code. Without spaces it would look like this: <b>Paris</b>

To underline, replace the b's with u's. <u>Paris</u>

<b>UPDATE</b> - After another planning session, this is our latest itinerary:

SAT - Train to Avignon, rent car, drive to St. Remy - Hotel St. Remy
SUN - Drive across Millau Bridge - Hotel St. Remy
MON - Drive to Pont du Gard, Uzes & Nimes - Hotel St. Remy
TUE - Drive to Gordes & the Luberon - Hotel St. Remy
WED - Drive to Les Baux, Arles, return car - Hotel Arles
THU - Train to Marseille, boat ride, eat Bouillabaisse - Hotel Marseille
FRI - Train to Paris
(Sun, Mon & Tue schedule can be switched around so Millau can be done on the best weather day)

JToronto - <b>How long will it take to drive the Gorges du Tarn, and how difficult of a drive will it be?</b> We were thinking of going through Ales and Florac (or take the Corniche des Cévennes?), then follow the 907 through the Gorges down into Millau, then back to St. Remy by way of the expressway through Montpellier and Nimes. We don't mind driving distances (we recently drove 180 miles roundtrip in the evening after work just to see the new Star Trek movie, and got up and went to work the next day.)

Leely2 - Thanks for the insight on Marseille. We're looking at a hotel one block off of the Vieux Port, near the intersection of la Canebière (can of beer). Most of what we want to do is located right there at the Vieux Port, so I don't think we'll have a problem. Plus, I'm travelling with two burly looking guys.

frenchwow - I checked out your trip report which had lots of information. I was sorry to read about your broken ankle. I hope you have since healed.

owlwoman - I had to get my map out and find Aups. It looks like it was a very convenient location to stay for visiting the Gorges du Verdon. Unfortunately, there's just not enough time on this trip to go everywhere that we keep learning about.

JeanneB - Thanks for answering Caroline's HTML question.

Caroline - FYI, here's a link to a site that was put together by a fellow Fodorite which explains other <i><red>Simple HTML Formatting Tags</red></i>: (use i for italics, and red for red)
http://ljkrakauer.com/tags.htm

And here's a link to the Smiley's emoticons:
http://www.fodors.com/community/smileys/

Thanks, everyone, for helping with my trip planning.

Robyn :)>-

To: Experience Provence

Jane,
I sent a message via your website. Did you get it? (Your email didn't work for me). If you didn't get it, maybe you could try to email me so I can simply hit reply. jeannebab-AT-comcast-DOT-net.
Thanks

I know that you can see a lot more and cover more ground with a car but it is not essential, especially if you have only a short time. Last year my family spent 3 days in St Remy and 2 in Avignon using buses between. Unfortunately the local bus to Les Baux finishes in September so we took a taxi (less than 20euro) and walked back (about 12km I believe - off road and very beautiful). Business run less frequently on Sundays but I believe there is a bus between St Remy and Arles as well as to Avignon. Check this site for the local bus timetables http://www.saintremy-de-provence.com/.

We always prefer to take local transport when in Europe and have usually managed to get to some pretty out of the way places. Sometimes it takes longer, that's all. It all comes down to how fast you want to travel. btw we loved St Remy and would be happy to go back any time. Lastly, it is possible to take organised day tours from Avignon to places like Gordes although we didn't actually do this.

Providing you don't want to whizz around and plan ahead around the bus schedules, you shouldn't feel compelled to get a car if you prefer not to.

see entry Ah Provence

Artstuff, We stayed in Bonnieux a few years ago for around two weeks.

We were centrally located in the Luberon and loved it. Stu kindly sent us his provence iteniary and we it meant the world to us to have it. We went to the Bollager every morning and had the BEST orange tart sort of pastry covered in the most wonderful powdered suger. It was a very small village, but I would stay there again for the pastry. Anyway, we got up every morning and drove a part of the trip. Stu's advice was invaluable. Please take it and have a wonderful trip!.

a small car is needed to visit small villages.
We stayed in Mustiers St Marie to visit the Canyon.
Bonnieux is one of my favorite places.
There is so much besuty in Provence, just thinking of it
I can smell the wild herbs growing on the garrigue.

I haven't read all the details here, I think the latest is you now plan to drive everywhere. Well, I've visited places in Provence by bus/train, so it is possible. I've visited St Remy, for example, by bus but I was staying in Avignon. Bus schedules change and aren't that easy to find online, in my experience, so I just get the schedules at the local gare routiere when I am in a town or city. It's a lot easier. YOu do have a lot more freedom with a car, but you don't have to have one. The problem with some bus schedules is they are not that frequent or the arrival/departures don't give you the right amount of time you want in a place.