Sienna - What a disappointment!
 

There have been so many great things written here, there and everywhere about Sienna that every tourist in the world must have read because they all showed up there last week. I could not believe the number of tour busses that crowded the outer streets and the number of tourists that crowded the inner streets. Maybe this is normal for the summer season but it was a shock and disappointment to me. Travelors expecting a small, quaint and more quiet village atmosphere will not find it here. Be warned!

Paul, What you saw was all too typical <BR>of the best art locations in Italy--it <BR>is a very hot tourist destination these <BR>days. The best solution is to go in Oct. <BR>or April---but to be candid I did count <BR>42 tour busses in San Gimig. in early <BR>Oct. in '97. In particular, Tuscany is <BR>the place that has been overrun--too <BR>many books and articles have been written in recent years and the whole world has discovered it. Same is true <BR>of Venice and the Cinque terre. I guess <BR>we all can blame too much disposable <BR>income and the dollar strength. It was <BR>alot better in '84 and '92.

Bob - glad to see you are back. I didn't even mention the same type of problem at San Gym because it was on a smaller scale. We did manage to find the type of place we were looking for slightly west, closer to Pisa. I am sure you know the area. Stayed at an agritourism where there were no tourists and visited some towns where english was not spoken. But without a car, we would have never found what we were looking for.

Dear Paul, <BR>Thanks for your warning. Crowds and bustle are just what I am hoping to at least minimize if not avoid during my September trip to Italy. Do you have any suggestions, based upon your experience with Positano, Verona, Florence, Venice and Rome? Any suggestions for quiet lodgings are welcomed. Also do you know of any websites which may help me out? <BR>Kind regards, <BR>Reneau <BR>

So was Siena worth it? Its certainly true that tour books and visitors always give Siena a glowing recommendation, and it's on my "must see" list for my trip to Tuscany in September. But is it worth dealing with the crowds and the hassle and the parking? Should I skip it in favor of more out of the way towns (which might be... Volterra? Orvieto?)

Sienna was not worth it to us but it may to be you. Just be prepared for lots and lots of tourists. In Venice, it is also very crowded but that was expected. In Florence and Rome, I suggest the "other side" of the rivers to find more peace and quiet. As far as tuscany, we stayed outside of Volterra and found a agritourism using the Volterra tourist office. We loved this area and it was much quieter.

This message is for Reneau. I've just returned from 8 days in Venice. We planned our trip to avoid crowds and heat and got both! I cannot imagine what Venice must be like in August! My recommendation is to spend time in the Eastern Costello neighborhood of Venice where you will encounter very few tourists. This is a neighborhood in which to find an outdoor cafe/bar and enjoy a late afternoon "spritz" or prosecco and watch the Italians on their "passeggiatas," or their evening strolls. Dogs, baby carriages, grandmothers, you name it. I was in a state of suspended bliss, feeling that any minute now the director was going to yell "cut" and all of the cast was going to disappear. I would also check out the Public Gardens which are in Eastern Costello -- another place to people-watch and escape the tourists. While in this neighborhood, eat at the pricey but wonderful seafood restaurant (often makes the list of top Venetian restaurants) called Hosteria Da Franz. We spent 3 lazy hours on a Sunday afternoon sitting canal-side and sipping prosecco while they brought out course after course of imaginative and wonderful seafood dishes.

Yes - Venice was hot and crowded and will be worse in the summer. Janet is right - there are places in Venice to at least escape the crowds. A great place to eat at very reasonable prices without crowds of tourists is the Railway Workers Cafeteria located next to the train station. It was worth every bit of the 15,000 lira for a full course meal.

I still think Siena is worth it. We saw both Siena and Florence by getting up REAL early and going out in the evening to walk through the streets and get the feel of the places. We selected only one to two "sites" such as the museums and churches to see in each location and went to them as soon as they opened. We then found out of the way places to rest, picnic, and see the locals rather than the tourist spots all afternoon. We had a great time in early June last year.

Paul-I have been to Sienna twice and after 20 years between the visits-I cannot see what is so fabulous about Sienna over other Italian cities My advice to all-If you must go,try going on a Sunday morning when the crowds are less in size. Yes,its is a beautiful Italian city but even with a history degree and many credits of French and Italian art courses-I think its overrated.(On my last visit,my family would have preferred to take in the local soccer game!) The church and the square are unique but if you find its too crowded then opt for another village/city.The trouble with Tuscany is what happened to Provence after Peter Mayle's books-everyone goes, thus ruining the quaintness. Debbie <BR>

I was in Siena in October 96. No crowds - at least not compared with Florence and Rome. Stayed there three nights just down the road from the Campo. Had no trouble eating at the Campo restaurants (as in queueing to get in) and no queues for anything at all in fact. The Duomo and Baptistry were breathtaking. I think I saw more locals than tourists when I was there. All in all, best to visit Europe just before or just after the "high" season so you miss the terrible crowds. I don't like crowds and the weather is still quite nice in September/October.

Reading some coments in this thread I just couldn't refrain to add my 2 cents :-) <BR> I have visited Siena 6 times. The first when I was 11, stoping on the way from Rome to Bolzano. The last, two years ago in July, spending a night there with my wife and daughters. In between, I visited during the August Palio week (6 days), when I was a grad student in the US, with 2 cousins and other friends. Twice I went there with my wife spending a night and once on a day trip, on route from Florence to Rome. Siena and Venice are our (whole family) preferred cities in Italy and we go back to both whenever possible. <BR> Do you really consider Siena overrated, Debbie? If so, I'm afraid you missed it all ... If, on one hand, Rome represents the finest in Italy regarding the Classicism and Barroque, and Florence regarding the Renaissance, on the other there's no doubt that Siena represents the finest there is regarding the Italian Gothic (no single city in Italy can be elected as representative of finest Romanesque, because of its various styles - the most flourishing of which, the Lombard school, is spread all over Northern Italy - Milan, Como, Pavia, Verona, etc). <BR> Fortunately (for architecture lovers) Siena was defeated in its battle against Florence, loosing its power. Had it maintained it, almost certainly its Gothic would have been "polluted" with the Renaissance and Barroque ... just another copy of Florence. <BR> Siena is certainly the loviest medieval city in Italy. Which other walled city can show a piazza like the Campo, a church like the Duomo, narrow streets lined with palazzi, medieval gates, a fortress, towers ... you name it, all in one? No other preserved its original character and atmosphere more markedly. The three quarters (hills) medieval administrative organisation with its "contrade" are not only recalled during the Palio ... the rivalry is "lived" throughout the year. <BR> Siena is a city for contemplation and deep exploration. Unfortunately, relatively few have this perspective. Most of Siena's visitors are day trippers (has anybody noticed how the big parking lots around the ramparts and Stadium are empty at night?). They arrive at 10:30am and leave at 5:00pm - rush to the Campo, swet it out in the crowded Duomo/Battistero and Palazzo Pubblico, climb the del Mangia tower for a quickie and maybe stroll through via di Citta and Via Banchi di Sopra. As Venice day trippers that give priority visiting the Piazza, Basilica, Palazzo Ducale and a museum instead of strolling, these Siena visitors miss it all. <BR> One has to spend at least one night in Siena. The Campo should be visited both at dusk and dawn. We always have breakfast at a cafe which has a balcony overlooking the piazza. Two years ago, late in July around 7:30am, it was empty. I mean, not a single soul! This is the best time for contemplation and reflection. It's breathtaking. I don't know of a monument in Italy that combines it's unique beauty and power. Let Siena's history flow and try to picture the events that took place in that setting. The Duomo with its museum and library, and the Battistero open very early in the summer. At 8:30am, if there's no mass being held, you'll be there by yourself. As you leave, day trippers will start pouring in ... its time to go for the sites day trippers ignore. There are dozens: the Pinacoteca, Casa e Santuario di Santa Caterina, Sant'Agostino, San Domenico, S. Maria dei Servi, San Francesco, Universita, Museo Archeologico, Fortezza Medicea and Enoteca Italiana, etc. It's also time to stroll through the narrow streets and piazze to admire the facades of dozens of palazzi, fountains and gates. It's also time to explore the quarters of a couple of "contrade": headquarters, parrish church, hangouts ... sit down and chat with locals about history and stories (glories, failures, tricks ... and how do they expect to do next time up). Around 5pm, day trippers start leaving. Since the Palazzo Pubblico closes late in summer (7-7:30pm), there's plenty of time to visit it with nobody breathing on your neck. If you're fit, you may even climb the tower for a view of the city and piazza at dusk. Before and/or after dinner you may sit in the piazza and mix yourself with locals. It shouldn't be overcrowded ... just lively. <BR> If can't sleep in Siena ... too bad! If you have to go in the high season (Reneau, Beth) ... worse! Kay is right. At least try to be there very early and leave late. Try to avoid Sunday; it's not a very good day. If I'm not wrong, the Palazzo Pubblico closes around 1:30pm and above suggestion wouldn't work. <BR> <BR>Paulo <BR> <BR>PS. IMO Siena has a much better structure than San G. to handle day trippers. I can't immagine how you didn't noticed the problem in San G., Paul!

If you don't like the crowds, go to the areas in Italy that are less touristy, I do find them much more interesting. For example the cities in Emilia Romagna (Bologna, Modena, Ravenna, Parma, Ferrara) are all wonderful places and yet I haven't seen hardly any tourists there.