Should I have spoken up??
 

We just returned from a fabulous 3 1/2 week vacation visiting Prague, Vienna, Italy, and all over Switzerland. There was not one "bad" moment until the day we flew home from Zurich and I just can't get this out of my mind.<BR>We were in the process of going through security at the Zurich Airport (Delta Airlines) including removing our shoes. I was just completing this and in the process of putting my shoes back on when an American women came behind me. In her LOUD voice I heard" What kind of airport is this?" "I smell smoke and I'm not going to be subjected to this". She then went on to say that she wanted to be the last one to complete the security process because she didn't want to have to walk through the smoking section to enter the plane. She was so loud and obnoxious that myself and several other Americans just hung our head in disgust.<BR><BR>Completing security and entering the gate area, there was a small smoking section (maybe 10%) next to the larger non-smoking area. She could have easily entered the non-smoking area and kept her mouth shut.<BR>A very nice Swiss Delta airline employee tried to explain that since the 10 hour flight to Atlanta was non-smoking that the area was set up to provide passengers with an opportunity to smoke prior to entering the plane (without exiting the security area). She was just so rude, loud and an embarassment. I wanted to speak up and say something but couldn't find the words for such a person. Should this ever happen again, I may not be able to maintain my politeness. Should I have said something, and if so, what would you have said? I felt like I should have said something (almost an apology) to the very polite Swiss people staring at her in astonishment of her behavior....maybe this is where the term "ugly American" comes from!! I just can't get this incident out of my mind after experiencing 12 days of a wonderful holiday with the Swiss people. I just felt like holding up a sign saying "we really are nice people and please don't judge us by this obnoxious lady, we appreciate your hospitality to us visiting YOUR COUNTRY!" I want to be prepared should something like this happen again.<BR>Marcie

Marcie: I am glad you had a wonderful holiday. Unfortunately the type of behavior you describe is all to common. Saying anything to the "lady" would not have done any good so it is probably just as well you didn't. It could have just gotten more ugly.<BR><BR>My experience has been that many travelers from the US demand and expect Eurpoeans to conform tho the non-smoking rules they are used to at home.<BR><BR>I am definitely NOT pro-smoking (My mom has all kinds of smoking related health problems) but I have seen WAAAAAY too many Americans either make embarrasing scenes or just make nasty faces when encountering smoke in a pub, shop, restaurant or airport. And they are always so LOUD about it.<BR><BR>If you don't like the smoke -- just walk away!

No. I think speaking up would only have made it worse. The woman was having a bad day. And, if every day is a bad day for her, then you can feel sorry for her!<BR><BR>If people judge an entire nation by the actions of a single person, well, it wouldn't say much for them, would it? <BR><BR>Glad you had a great trip! Now go to bed, if your jet lag isn't too awful.

You better believe that's where the term "ugly American" came from. If it's any consolation, there are plenty of "ugly" French, German, and Australians out there as well. Oh boy could I tell you stories. Just keep doing your part to counteract the stereotype -- that's all you can do!

Marci,<BR>I agree with the others that you probably did the right thing by not saying anything....it may have just escallated things. I've witnessed similar in my European travels and it never ceases to amaze me at how rude and disrespectful some travelers can be! Let's just hope that most of our behavior out-weighs the rude impression like you encountered at the Zurich Airport. If anything, I think most Americans try to be on their best behavior when visiting a foreign country and leave their paranoid hang-ups at home. These people are most likely rude no matter where they are! Ida

You should not feel self-conscious just because you share a nationality with someone who is behaving rudely. Most reasonable people will not think that you hold the same opinions or would ever behave in the way that this person did. Realistically, I think all you can do is what you did: be polite and cooperative yourself (and perhaps make a subtle sympathetic remark to the person who had to handle the outburst, if you happen to be speaking with her anyway).<BR><BR>Many European airlines have instituted a policy of not allowing aggressive or confrontational passengers to board the plane, as they're considered at worst a threat and at best an unnecessary additional cause of stress for crew and passengers. Had this woman been flying BA or Swissair, she might have found herself spending some additional, unplanned time in horrible, backward, smoky Europe.

"Marcie" is a pathetic whiner. The majority of us have experienced loud, disgraceful, obnoxious, foul-smelling europeans, asians, & middle-easterners throughout our travels abroad and home. Why are you so daft and narrowminded to believe that it is only the americans? Open your eyes, Marcie. You obviously need to broaden your mind!

Since Marcie's an American, the odds are that there's at least one thing about her that's broad: her backside.

I think you should have said something. You should have, very politely and calmly, pointed out that she was perhaps over-reacting, that she was causing distress to other people (many passengers hate flying, and anything that gets them more nervous, tense, irritable etc. is to be avoided) and that whether she likes it or not, the small smoking section was provided for the benefit of a minority. I think she would have been surprised to have one person out of so many 'mutes' speak up and might well have felt at least some of the embarrassment you were feeling and she should have felt. If she then wanted to escalate things, you simply ought to have walked away. Obnoxious behaviour that upsets many others should not be tolerated.

I get so tired of American bashing.<BR>Can we just give up stereotypes? So many Europeans I've met over here have said something unpleasant about our country (in front of us Americans). We are not the only LOUD people either.<BR>Geez, get over it!<BR>

Would you have considered saying something if she was British, Australian or any other nationality? What makes you think it's ok for you to tell someone else how to behave??

Marcie, this ugly American sounds hostile and if you had said something, I bet the situation would have turned ugly on *you*. These kinds of people don't ever believe that they are out of line, so your speaking up would have been a waste of breath, unfortunately.

I would've said something had the person been British, Irish, Canadian.....whatever. Rudeness has no exclusive home. Why do you think that everyone here will only post items that criticise nations other than the poster's own?

Simone,<BR>For your information. British Airways has operated a no-smoking policy on all its flights since the late 1990's. As well as that Britain is one of the more progressive countries on smoking policies in public places. I rarely have a problem as a non-smoker in the UK.

The REALLY sad thing is it is that when this moron you ran across reaches the other side of the pond, she would be rewarded for her obnoxious attitude by being allowed to make policy.

you should have slapped her silly!

Angela, I think you've misunderstood Simone's point - she wasn't saying that BA allows smoking, but that they might well have "pulled" this obnoxious passenger off their flight until she had calmed down, as she could have been a security risk. IMO it would have served her right.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I am positive she was an American and I certainly don't consider myself narrow minded. I just have difficulty tolerating rudeness, regardless of nationality. It is especially worrisome to me when it reflects on "Americans" as I'm standing there witnessing the incident. Hopefully, this "one bad apple" wont' leave as lasting an impression as those of us who travel and appreciate the differences in customs and culture and show respect to others. I'm a Die-Hard American through and through but when traveling to other parts of the globe, I'm very respectful of diversity and differences within each country without trying to assume that the American Way is the only way, the best way, etc. and voicing such! Marcie

Marcie, I think you did the right thing by not inciting the situation to escalate. You might have left the Euopeans in the area with the impression that half of all Americans are loudmouths and the other half are argumentative and confrontational!

Marcie:<BR>I would not have spoken to the woman in question, either. I usually just catch the eye of the person receiving the wrath and just roll my eyes or smile at them. No reason to escalate the situation, she would probably have turned on you. Now what?

Marcie, as tempting as it may seem to try, you have no control over the behavior of another person. Likewise, you are not responsible for the image of all Americans abroad. What you can control is your own behavior in the situation, which, it seems to me, you did beautifully by minding your own business. Difficult? Yes! Appropriate? Yes! Now let it go and enjoy all the positive aspects of your trip.

I'm glad you didn't say anything. There is little to be said to obnoxious people such as you encountered. Given the same situation, I probably would have made eye contact with the airline employee and given him an "eye roll"....he would have known that my sympathies were with him!

No, you should not have spoken up.

No, these people are so caught up in their emotional crisis that anything disparaging said by you would only further their lack of control.<BR><BR>What has worked for me is to give them a looooooong, disapproving stare as though they are the star feature in a freak show. Which they are.

To Nation.., Shadow and Duke:<BR>No need to be rude. If you don't like the question, don't answer it. No need to be A-holes about it, is there?

Speaking to BigMouth wouldn't have helped anything, I agree. But you'd be surprised how much good it does sometimes to connect with someone who has been the target of such lousy behavior and try to make their day better. I might have said something to one or another of the Swiss Delta employees on the order of, "I'm sorry there are such awful people, you handled it so well, have a better day, thank you for your help, etc." <BR><BR>Pleasantness makes a difference sometimes, and might remind people inclined to have stereotypes about Americans that SOME of those stereotypes aren't negative.

Marcie, First of all, why would you think that someone else's behavior has anything whatsoever to do with you. Its not like the woman you're talking about is someone officially representing the U.S. If someone is stupid enough to generalize about Americans because of one American's comments, that's their problem. If I stand next to a Frenchman who has B.O.---which happened to me two years ago while at CDG---do I then assume that all French men stink? Secondly, I am tired of Americans apologizing for other Americans' behavior.

The irony is that if you keep your mouth shut and observe all the etiquette, they may never know that you are an American so the loud rude people become the symbol.

Marcie I hate situations like that no matter what the persons nationality is....Not so long ago I was on a flight where a couple was being extremely rude to some of the other passengers on the plane. I wanted to say something to them like "Would you please lower your voice you are disturbing what would otherwise be a pleasant flight". I kept my mouth shut because I had this vision of someone "losing it" at 35000 feet in the air. <BR>Remember situations such as that remind you that courtesy and good manners never go out of style. It is a reflection on those people who have bad manners...the bad manners speak volumes about that person...<BR>I am glad that you had such a nice vacation...focus on your vacation memories....post us a trip report:)))<BR>Anyway I just wanted to write to say I know how you feel....situations like that make me uncomfortable...

Marcie, who do you think you are... the behaviour control police? Why don't you just mind your own business! It is the noseymongers as yourself that need to be put in their place. Shame on you for speaking so ill of your own kind. What an embarassment you are!

Hey Marcie, since you "just can't get this off your mind" why don't you get some psychiatric help before you really go bonkers!

What you should've done is grabbed the bi@#% and thrown her on the floor. Your fellow international travelers would've jumped in:<BR><BR>The Germans would've pounded the snot ouuta her. Afterwards they'd deny knowing anything about the incident.<BR><BR>The French would've kicked her like the sissy-boys they all are.<BR><BR>The Italians would've run.<BR><BR>The Polish would've beaten themselves up.<BR><BR>The Russians would've grabbed somebody else and slapped them around while you were distracted.<BR><BR>The Brits would've put up a token effort until other Americans joined in and saved the day.<BR><BR>And the Swiss would've gone about their merry way making lots of money while you killed each other.<BR>

NOTE TO SELF -<BR><BR>Marcie has issued a clear warning to the entire international community that she will not maintain her politeness the next time she spots an ugly American.<BR><BR>Therefore, when Marcie is in the vicinity of an overseas airport, the following is essential. I must not make eye contact with anyone, and never elevate my voice greater than a whisper, lest Marcie overhear me.<BR><BR>I must not say anything except "Yes Sir" and "No Sir", and look apologetic because I don't know how to say these phrases in High German.<BR><BR>If I find that I am developing an uncontrollable rage at the rude and incompetent airport security people, and I cannot suppress the urge to speak my mind, I should do so using a fake French accent, lest I enrage Marcie.<BR><BR>If Marcie does become enraged, she may roll her eyes at the security personnel and then be slapped because that gesture means something entirely different in Swiss culture. I don't know that this is the case, but I can't take the chance.<BR><BR>In addition to the risk of being slapped by security personnel, Marcie will be upset for a minimum of twelve days and she might even hold up a sign declaring that she is a nice person despite the fact that she is American. This might cause people to laugh at her and I wouldn't want to be responsible for that.<BR><BR>Of course, if I am in an American airport, I can be as loud and obnoxious as I want, and Marcie won't even notice.

to: ConcernedFlyer ([email protected])<BR>I think someone needs to take you out of your pathetic misery. What are you smokin? Kris

Re: 'I just felt like holding up a sign saying "we really are nice people and please don't judge us by this obnoxious lady...'<BR><BR>That's interesting in light of the post this past week where two *Americans* seemed to be judging all Swiss people based on the unfortunate, and seemingly obnoxious, actions of two people: a cab driver and a bus driver in Lugano. Oh yeah, and also one Swiss waiter who apparently told them he felt Americans were racist and needed to "get over" 9/11. <BR><BR>

I think we've beaten this one to death.<BR><BR>NEXT!

Marcie, you might have spoken up, but not to suggest that she should not be complaining. As others have suggested, she would have heard you telling her you think she is fundamentally wrong as a person, as opposed to someone who is taking the wrong approach to solving her problems. Besides, a confrontational approach would have exacerbated the lady's confrontational behaviour, not calmed it down.<BR><BR>Any of us have the right to at least ask for what we want, this lady is no different. It doesn't matter whether you or I agree with what she's asking for. The problem is that she has got it through her head that the only way to do this is by being loud and difficult, and furthermore to people who have no power to change policy.<BR><BR>Therefore, it would be in both her interests and yours to suggest an alternative. For example, you could politely suggest that if she really wanted to make an effective complaint, she needed to make it to the people who were in a position to do something about it, namely the management of the airport. You could also emphasize that the most effective complaints are made in writing. (This is perfectly true, and it would not be necessary for you to add that such an approach would also be in your interests, since it wouldn't disturb people such as yourself and the airline attendant, neither of whom are in any position to address the smoking policy one way or another.) <BR><BR>

Concerned Flyer - That's too funny. Especially the part about not noticing the same if you're in an American airport. It's true, we're used to that sort of thing here. I think Marcie did the polite thing by not speaking up. However, I probably wouldn't have been so polite. In my "loud American voice" I would have complained about "loud American complainers", shook my head and laughed.

Marcie,<BR>As an international flight attendant for a major US airline, believe me when I say that we see it all. I'm sure the airline employee handled it well, as did you!<BR>When we are in a foreign country, we are like little ambassadors representing our land of origin. Every country has their stereotypes, some times correct and most times incorrect. I for one know that when I am on foreign soil, I really do try to always put my best foot forward....especially when I am still in uniform but not at an airport. I feel that I'm not only a little ambassador for my country, but also for my employer. I think we try to behave well "at home" as well, but even more so when we're in "someone elses' home"! Marcie, You sound like a classy lady, who probably had every right to shutter at improper behavior regardless of where it occurred. Sherry

Sherry,<BR>your response reminded me of an article I read which confirms what you said....people in their "work" uniform are known to be more considerate while shopping, driving, or whatever they're doing because of reflecting upon not only themselves but also their employer. I suppose this also holds true of drivers who have company logos on their cars.