dotheboyshall

<i>66 suspects rounded up here in the U.S.</i>

Does it include the 4 people here?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6737986.html

NewbE

cig, wow. At least you found out about the surveillance; most never do. I wonder, did they have a warrant? Because I should make clear that what I personally am opposed to is warrantless, or mass, surveillance.

kerouac

So, you would sue them?

I am opposed to it as well, but that is meaningless in this century.

NewbE

Well, you could sue them; or you could just, you know, vote for candidates who oppose measures that violate civil liberties without making us safer.

There is an article on NPR.org about US presidential candidates calling for the repeal of the law banning government collection of metadata--before it has even taken effect.

< "I think we need to restore the metadata program," Bush told Morning Joe. "Which was part of the Patriot Act, and it expires in the next few months. I think that was a useful tool to keep us safe.">

And that's all he has to say. "It will keep us safe." How, and at what cost, these things don't matter. Will it really keep us safe--who cares? Who needs civil liberties?

brubenow

I have no problem with surveillance of it keeps innocent people from being blown up.

And it's unfortunate that sometimes people are taken in for questioning who have committed no crime, if they are without fault, they will be released, and if it saves lives, it's s small price to pay.

fuzzbucket

How many of you own a cellphone or computer?
How many of you withdraw cash from an ATM machine?
How many of you travel by air?
And countless other examples...

Don't you realize that someone is watching you each time you do these things? Has it really interfered with your daily life?

Maybe you don't like the idea, but there's no escaping it unless you go live way off the grid - if that's even possible.

NewbE

And there you have it. Here, take my rights--I trust you, and I wasn't using them, anyway.

Terrorists win again.

brubenow

No the terrorists win when no one arrests them and they blow up a stadium with thousands of people.

They DON'T win when we have surveillance on them and they're arrested before they have a chance to meet their 72 virgins.

Cowboy1968

I would have been more impressed with all the intelligence, spying and snooping around if those activities had led to the arrest of the terrorists of Friday the 13th before they had the chance to pull the triggers and blow up the bombs.

As long as terrorists can use Facebook and post ego-shooter-like recruiting videos to lure youngsters to Syria to die in the deserts, I am a bit concerned that our story of "Western values" is not as strong as we think it is.

I am also clueless why I have to pack my toothpaste in a plastic bag, but unaccompagnied 16yo boys and girls can show up at Western European airports and board planes to Istanbul.

I am not interested in the blame game, but more or less clueless myself. But I am grateful that none of my collegues and friends in Paris have been killed or injured.

I think we need more intelligence than what is found in intelligence agencies.

kerouac

The intelligence prevented them from blowing up La Défense and Charles de Gaulle airport, too. I hope that is a small consolation for you, Cowboy.

Cowboy1968

I have no doubt that the intelligence services were able to gather valuable information in the aftermath of Friday the 13th.
Nevertheless, we are told that intelligence activities are needed to protect us from attacks in the first place.

kerouac

Ha ha, that's a good one. Nobody will ever be able to stop the "lone wolf" attacks, even if we make progress on the other conspiracies.

annhig

And it's unfortunate that sometimes people are taken in for questioning who have committed no crime, if they are without fault, they will be released, and if it saves lives, it's a small price to pay.>>

so long as it's not you paying it, brubenow. I'm glad that you have such faith in the authorities; as a lawyer who sees them close up, I am less sanguine. There have been two examples recently of US citizens targeted by the "authorities" for no good reason - the moslem boy with the clock who was arrested because some teacher thought it looked like a bomb:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34266389

and the chinese professor who was wrongly accused and charged with sending secrets China, when all he was doing was normal academic communication:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/feds-dro...ina-1442008260

those are just two recent examples.

Surveillance is an inevitable fact of 21C life, but please don't let's kid ourselves that the authorities are infallible.

brubenow

I'm not saying they're infallible.

I'm saying I'd rather be wrongly taken in for questioning than be blown up.

I'm sure the people who might have been killed at La Defense today are grateful for the surveillance that saved their lives.

Sue4

I'm in total agreement with you, brubenow - and Kerouac. Some others on here seem to be out of touch with the reality of the 21st Century. We should all be GLAD our governments use surveillance if it helps us to be saf(er). We will never be 100% safe in this age of radical Islamic Terrorists (or Jihadists if you prefer), whose only agenda is killing off the Western world and are willing to kill themselves in the process.

I will gladly expose myself to whatever method of surveillance they (the authorities) want to use in order to lesson my exposure to being killed by a bomb or shot at while eating at a restaurant with friends! If we have lost any of our "freedoms", you people who are so incensed should thank the murderous Jihadists, not the authorities.

danon

add me to the list Sue
I have nothing to hide!
As fuzz said , a good deal of information about most of us is out there already.
Google yourself.

NewbE

I agree with annhig, except that I am not so pessimistic about surveillance remaining such a very big part of our lives. Young people have a much more savvy and nuanced view of privacy issues, and the current batch of scared old people so well represented on these forums can't live forever.

<I will gladly expose myself to whatever method of surveillance they (the authorities) want to use in order to lesson my exposure to being killed by a bomb or shot at while eating at a restaurant with friends! If we have lost any of our "freedoms", you people who are so incensed should thank the murderous Jihadists, not the authorities.>

You seem not to realize that your chances of being blown up by terrorists, are a) vanishingly small, and b) not decreased by the surveillance to which you are subjected. More information doesn't equal safety, it equals control. Look at what fear has made you do: push away your constitutional rights and protections with both hands in return for the false promise of safety.

Trust me, in this, the terrorists have won; they're just not who you think they are.

cigalechanta

" and the current old batch of posters on this forum "
Wow, Newbe, you have a problem

Robert2533

Where are you going to go for sage advice when "the current old batch of posters on this forum" pass on?

Nikki

"the current batch of scared old people so well represented on these forums can't live forever."

Now she tells me.