Shawl for churches
 

Just a silly question - can I wear a very light-weight, see-through shawl into the Vatican or other churches. Many say wear pashminas, aren't they quite heavy/warm?

Hi D,

Yes.

>Many say wear pashminas, aren't they quite heavy/warm?

No.

>>can I wear a very light-weight, see-through shawl<<

If it's see-through, it doesn't really serve the purpose...

Pashmina is a fabric, not an item of clothing. The real thing is very lighweight.

I wore a black pashmina that someone had given me, because it folded up and fit into a compartment in my purse. I advise you to find something that isn't absolutely see-through and that compacts easily so you can put it on and off at will. A very large, opaque scarf would do the trick.

dshwor: pashminas do for so many occasions, that this is the only thing I use. A scarf if it is cold or windy, a shawl for dressier evenings, tie around your waist to dress up pants.

They are very lightweight and scrunch up well into any purse. They also make great gifts. 6euros each makes a cheap momento for friends.

Choose a colour that can be co-ordinated with your travel wardrobe and won't show the dirt. BUT you can wash them out and they dry overnight very well.

Cheers, spunk

True pashmina is a luxurious fabric for which you can expect to pay upwards of $50, but street stalls in Rome sell imitations (also usually called pashminsa) in numerous colors and fabrics for prices beginning at about 5E. You'll have a hard time limiting yourself to just one.

A see-through shawl, that's kind of funny for the Vacitan. Actually, I agree that even the fake "pashminas" which is what almost everyone means on this board when they talk about them, are quite heavy and hot for summer. They are brushed rayon for the most part. I sure wouldn't want to wear one in summer nor lug one around all day. So if you have a lighter-weight fabric shawl, that's a good idea. I have very light-weight cotton cardigans that are much smaller and lighter than those fake pashminas, and I'd much rather carry that around, it can actually be of some use if it is getting cool at night or something.

catholics - refresh my mind

why do ladies have to wear head covering and men do not?

Sounds Talibanesque to me.

I'm not Catholic, but currently there is no head-covering requirement, and I don't think there has been for 40 years or so (since Vatican II).

then why do you have to wear one, if a woman, in the Vatican church?

PS i'm not trying to start a diatribe against religion (honestly), i' m just curious how such discrimination is justified and there has to be a religion-based reason for this to an outsider. Seems few other Christian churches require it.

will travel: i agree there is no specific rule about head coverings but it seems to depend on the church or whatever you are entering. in the Greek monasteries, this past March, not only were the women required to cover their heads. but we were given skirts to put on over our slacks. They thought pants were for men and women wearing them were being disrespectful. Or so the guide told us.
Old fashioned tradition??

PalenqueBob, What in the name of all that's holy is "the Vatican church"? If you mean St. Peter's Basilica, you are misinformed. Women are *not* required to wear a head covering and have not been required to do so for decades.

PalQ, women are not required to wear head-coverings at the Vatican or St. Peter's.

Zerlina, what you say accords with what I have read about Orthodox tradition elsewhere.

Sorry, it was spunk, not Zerlina, talking about the Greek Orthodox monasteries.

PalQ:: if you are a male, try getting into a synagogue if you do not cover your head.

Are there any churches that require women to cover heads - if not the OP's question's answer should have been easy - wear anything you want or none if you want

but perhaps there are churches that require it - if so why?

I mean i've seen ladies using things like newspapers to cover their heads in some churches - is this voluntary and a show of respect or is it to meet some mandate.

Ironic that men should take off their hats or be considered disrepectful but women without one could be disrespectful - i can't see any difference.

PQBob: i have seen men take their baseball caps off when entering a cemetary. This must be a sign of respect, BUT I have never seen a woman cover her head in a cemetary. Go figure!!

but then again, I have seen so many tourists simply tramp right over graves, surely this is the ultimate disrespect.

>..why do ladies have to wear head covering and men do not?<

Men may not.

Because.

>.. i' m just curious how such discrimination is justified ...<

Oh lord. If you call this "discrimination", what do you call the real thing?

Ira - let's 'parse' the word discrimination - means to discriminate or differentiate between men and women - why the difference or discrimination? Need not be perjorative outside of jo-jo i guess

At the Greek monasteries in the Meteora, women were required to wear skirts but not head coverings when I was there two years ago.

Men don't have to cover their heads in the synagogue I attend. Of course, there are some more conservative ones with various dress requirements for women and men. This is true of many religions (I am anti-religion, so don't think any of those rules make any sense, of course they don't, they are just cultural and manmade).

Women don't have to wear head coverings in the Catholic church, I think that was done away with with the second Vatican council. If you see women putting pieces of trash on their heads to simulate a head covering, they are very old-fashioned, I suppose. Some people stick to customs from decades ago. The reason for that rule once upon a time is no different than any religion that dictates dress codes for women, such as many Muslim communities. The idea is that a woman's hair is too seductive and it's too worldly and it makes them too attractive, so you have to cover it up. It's a way of neutering women or protecting them from the crazed men who for some reason can't control themselves and are always thinking of women with lust in their hearts, even at the sight of some ugly hairdo or flabby upper arm. It's the same reason nuns used to have to cmpletely cover their heads (but more extreme for them, of course).

I don't know about the Greek monasteries, but it's clear they have very old-fashioned and cultuarally biased ideas about what clothing is appropriate for women versus men. The idea that men used to wear gowns or skirts many years ago and that this is nothing but cultural history makes no difference when the reasoning is not in any way logical. My niece belongs to a fundamentalist Christian church in a small town in the US, and they have the same rules -- women are not allowed to wear pants. They even make little girls of 2-3, toddlers, wear skirts which is not very convenient as they can't walk that well yet. My poor little grandnieces are always tripping over their skirts and falling on their faces. They won't let them cut their hair, either. They justify it by some of their own interpretations of selected Bible passages but it basically is cultural chauvinism and historical ignorance.

So does anyone know the reason, at least traditionally, that some Christian churches want ladies to cover their heads - is it a sign of mourning?

and men to take off their heads or hats i mean for similar reasoning.

The court officers in the courts where I used to work make men take off their hats in the courtroom, but not women. I do not believe there is a religious basis for this distinction, but it is perceived as a sign of respect for men to take off their hats. They also make people take their hands out of their pockets, with the same rationale.

Funny, it never occurred to me that the OP intended to cover her head with the shawl - they stopped requiring that in Catholic churches when I was in Catholic high school, years and years ago. But I used my shawl to cover my shoulders and arms just as a matter of respect for the local customs when I was in Europe. I think, as the sisters explained it to me (a nonCatholic), that the idea of covering your head was, for a woman a sign of respect, just as taking your hat off was, for a man, another sign of respect. If there's more to it than that, I would also be interested in knowing.

The custom of men taking off their hats when going indoors arises because in medieval times, the knights might be hiding weapons under their helmets, so this was proof they were not.

Women were to keep their heads covered because of what Christina described above - seeing women's hair will drive men to lust.

Re-reading th OP i think she probably means shoulders covered, which i think is requisite for entry to St Peter's and many Italian churches and there are Morals police at the entrance enforcing bans on shoulders and shorts.

Sorry i thought it was intended to cover her hair

>Ira - let's 'parse' the word discrimination ....

If you are using the word "justified", you are implying more than just differentiation.

>It's a way of ...protecting them from the crazed men who for some reason can't control themselves and are always thinking of women with lust in their hearts,...<

I think that that includes every male person who is breathing without the aid of a ventilator. :)

>The court officers in the courts where I used to work make men take off their hats in the courtroom, but not women.<

Do you not realize the amount of time, effort and money that goes into making a woman look good in her hat?

>...seeing women's hair will drive men to lust.

Supposedly, there is a biblical verse that says, "A woman's hair is her crowning glory", but I can't find it.

((I))

Ira, that is something Paul said that to the Corinthians and Paul also told the Corinthian women to keep their heads covered in church.