Seville and Madrid
 

Hello,
After taking into consideration the comments of other foderites- I have a revised itinerary that I would like others to offer some insight/ suggestions on “must see" and beautiful or unforgettable sights and experiences while traveling in these areas.
I will be traveling with a mobility challenged senior citizen whose endurance will be limited, so driving through the countryside and quaint towns is desirable along with shorter walks in cities.
Feb 27, /2010... Leave USA
Feb 28 ... Arrive Madrid at 10:00am. Pick up rental car and drive the 4:30 hours to Granada and stay the night. I think this is not too farfetched. I have traveled to Europe a 4 times and feel that the jet lag is more of a problem on the return trip.
March 1 .... See the Alhambra early.
March 1 ... Check into our Seville apartment in the evening.
March 5..... Jaunt over the Portugal border and see a seaside town then take a Michelin guide scenic route north and east towards Madrid- stay the night in a hotel.
March 6-March 9 ....Check into an apartment or a hotel and see Madrid, Toledo, et al.
March 9..... 1pm flight back to the states.

*

I wouldn't drive 4 and 1/2 hours on roads I didn't know straight after a flight form the US....based on many returns to Europe where you spend the day you arrive struggling to keep your eyes open.
We stayed for 3 or 4 nights in Granada a couple of years ago and staying less than 24 hours is shame, although I htink that Seville is one of the most beautiful cities I've been to.

At least your arrival day is a Sunday, so traffic shouldn't be too bad. But negotiating the ring road system out of Madrid airport onto the autovía for Granada (A4/A44) will be a challenge. Sat Nav will be a big help - I use Garmin.
Hope you've booked Alhambra tickets in advance. Even in the so-called low season, the place isn't exactly empty.
Now you're trying to get to Seville after Alhambra. Depending on where you leave your car, getting out of Granada is a challenge at the best of times, and currently there is a severe delay on one of access roads to the autoviá for Málaga (A92), so allow extra time. Try to get to Seville by 5 pm, so you need to leave Granada by 2 at the latest. I must say that your first two days are really rushed, and your travel companion may not welcome all the constant moving about. Granada certainly requires and merits taking time, and even getting about on foot is a challenge with narrow pavements and heavy, constant traffic. It's also quite hilly. Flying direct to Granada from Madrid certainly makes sense. You don't need or want a car in Granada, and taxis are plentiful and reasonably priced (no tipping expected).
I don't see much point in going to Algarve for the day. Just stay in Spain and explore the coastal towns west of Cádiz like El Puerto de Sta Maaría and perhaps Jerez (a lovely town).
The rest seems fine. Again I see little point in having a car in Madrid.

March 1st seems very rushed. One of the Sevilla days could be spent down Cadiz way.

It is a long boring drive to Granada. I would take the bus or fly but if you want to drive...Cars are a major hassle in Granada so I would find the first parking garage reasonably close to your hotel and leave it, take a taxi to the hotel, or stay at a hotel near the Alhambra where some hotels have parking lots. 2 nights is better in Granada. I would stay in Sevilla area (Cordoba, Ronda, Cadiz, Italica, Carmona) for the entire time. It's really worth it. I would not try a jaunt across the border to Portugal. The logistics are kind of a hassle. That's just me, many would disagree. Oh and cars are a real hassle in Sevilla.

Don't rent a car when you arrive. You haven't had a problem with jet lag before - but even if you aren't exhausted what are you going to do with a car in Granada and Seville? I wouldn't want to drive in either city. Heck, cars weren't allowed in the areas that I stayed in when I was in Granada and Seville - the streets were way too narrow for cars so they were pedestrian only.

I'd recommend staying the night in Madrid and relaxing - explore the city or go to the Prado. It' a wonderful museum. But if you really want to go straight to Granada, take a bus, train, or plane there.

Also, there's a ceramics fair in Granada on Sundays - but it may be over by the time you'd arrive. Don't know if you're into that sort of thing, but I wish I had bought more ceramics when I was there.

As others have recommended, get your ticket to the Alhambra now, if you haven't already done so. Keep looking for tickets for 8:30 am slot. They let in 300 people (if I remember correctly) every half hour so it will be uncrowded and you'll be able to enjoy a relaxing visit.

I also recommend spending a least two nights in Granada. I'd skip Portugal but if you really want to go there, you can spend one less night in Madrid after Portugal.

Honestly, I think you have a pretty rushed itinerary for someone whose endurance is limited. I would definately not drive from Madrid to Granada.

Given your circumstances, I'd probably spend 5 nights in Seville and 5 in Madrid. This would eliminate alot of packing/unpacking. This eliminates Granada but with on1y 1 night and 1 full day it's going to be difficult to squeeze it in. There are plenty of places to daytrip from these bases and you could play it by ear depending on how he/she feels each day. I don't see the need to jaunt over to the Portugal border to see a seaside town when there are plenty of nice seaside towns within a daytrip from Seville - El Puerto, Sanlucar, Cadiz, etc...

If Granada is an absolute must I'd definately fly there from Madrid and spend 2 nights. Then go to Sevilla for 4 nights and end up in Madrid for 3. I wouldn't bother with a car. You can get a bus from Granada to Sevilla and then the train from Sevilla to Madrid. If you want to visit the beach you could take the train or bus from Seville to one of the towns mentioned above.

Here is a revised itinerary.
Feb. 27- leave USA
Feb. 28- Arrive 10:00 Madrid. Pick up rental car and drive to Granada.
Feb. 28-March 1- Granada.
March 2-5- Seville
March 6-9- Madrid. Depart for states at 13:00.

Trains for three would cost $900 and there really is not as much flexibility to go the less traveled path in a train.
A midsized rental car will cost about $500.00 and gasoline will be under $200.00 (according to Michelin). Also I do not mind parking a car and walking a few blocks in beautiful places.
I virtually never drive in any large European city except to travel to other places and when returning the car to the airport. I just prefer the opportunity and freedom that a car provides.

So this is my plan and I know virtually all say not to drive after a Trans Atlantic flight, but we are going to do it. We will arrive in Granada about 17:00 which will give us plenty of time to rest for Granada the next day and a half.

The revisions are all because of helpful and wise advice from you guys. No Lisbon, 2 days in Granada, 3 days in Madrid, and 4 days in Seville from whence we might well go to Cadiz for a day and Carmona for a few hours.

Any additional feedback with this itinerary in mind will be appreciated and helpful. Thanks again.

You will have a great trip, that's a near perfect itinerary. You can look forward to your next trip to Portugal, Galicia, Asturias and the Basque Country.

Oh and I'm pretty sure the bus from Madrid to Granada is like $35 dollars.

Good intinerary. And will allow you a few minutes to sit at a cafe and watch the world pass.

$300 per person! I think I paid about $60 to travel from Cordoba to Madrid on the train.

The drive to Granada will be boring. You'll see a gazillion olive trees. But once you make it to Granada, it sounds like a fabulous trip.

The drive from Madrid to Granada. It's not difficult and at that time of the year, and on a Sunday, traffic should be lightish and road (toll-free expressway-standard) prety good. A good place to break your long drive would be Almagro, an elegant place full of palaces and churches. A good lunch stop I'd have thought. More convenient, being just off the A4 highway, but less attractive is the wine town of Valdepeñas. There are plenty of bodegas offering tasting (for non-driver!) If you can share driving, so much the better. Arriving on a Sunday, traffic shouldn't be too bad in Granada either, though finding a restaurant open for dinner may be more of a challenge, but should find something.

Don't forget your parking fees when calculating. In most places overnight is 20 euros. Hourly from 1 euro to 3.50.

Heaven forbid should you park in a no parking zone full of Spanish cars.. learn the signs and painted lines against the curbs so you don't get towed (about 150 euros minimum).

Since you will have a car, why not take advantage then and go off the beaten path on your way to Granada to see Úbeda and Baeza and perhaps stay overnight there? I am certain you will be glad to have done so. These are unique towns with an abundance of interesting architecture in a very small area.

Thank you everyone for helping this to be a better trip.

Egbert I will look forward to the itinerary that you suggest at a later time.

Insofar as the rail passes go- The $900 for 3 people was for a railpass that allowed 3 different travel times in a 2 month period. I realize that it is cheaper to purchase tickets in Spain, but this quote is for a euro/Spain pass purchased in the USA.

Thank you Alec for the suggestions along the A4 route and also for the heads up about dinner in Granada the first night.

And yes lincasanove I have, to some extent, factored in the cost of parking- but not fines. I do not mind walking a bit to find a cheap or free parking spot and thanks for the tip on Ubeda and Baeza.

Sincerely,
Tim

Railpasses are never the way to go in Spain. You are much better off buyiing individual tickets. So, the $900 price for 3 people is not accurate.

The full fare for the train tickets from Madrid to Granada and Sevilla to Madrid is approx 150 euros pp. However, if you purchase discounted web or estrella fares (which you should be able to in advance) the discounts are 60% and 40% respectively. So, assuming a 50% discount that's 75 euros pp. The supra bus (deluxe) from Granada to Sevilla is 25 euros pp. A train or bus from Sevilla to Cadiz is 25 euros round trip pp (Sanlucar or El Puerto would be less expensive). That's a total of 125 euros pp or 375 euros total.

It's understandable you want to drive for some part of the trip. However, I just want to clear up that it should not cost 900 euros for public transportation with this trip.

You really may want to consider tha train from Madrid to Granada. A webfare is 27 euros pp. It would save you the fuel cost, car rental and parking in Granada. Not to mention having to focus on the drive after a long flight.

Thank you CathyM for all of your research and helpful advice. My concern is with the amount of extra time that we would have to use in transferring from the airport to the train station in Madrid and the additional time that we would incur while waiting on a train in Madrid. I figure that we could be over half way to Granada by the time we get on board a train. I have already done exhaustive research on inexpensive flights between Madrid and Granada and it just would not fit our schedule. We have taken trains in the U.K. and Switzerland and love them. Just not this trip. Thanks again. Tim