denisea

Just one more who will encourage you to cut a little bit from your itinerary to enjoy your trip more; see more sites, fewer train stations. I would hate for you to return from your trip feeling frazzled and disappointed. Of course, with many of the cities you could always see more, but I would pare down Italy just a bit.

I know it's frustrating to have your ideas criticized, but the advice here is quite good and is meant to help you have a more enjoyable trip. I haven't been everywhere you are going (but I want to). I do hope you enjoy your trip. Paris and Venice are breathtaking cities! I hope you will post a trip report when you return. Bonne chance!

uhoh_busted

Sassafras has given you a decent schedule that maximizes your time. DO NOT expect to "wing it" and find hotels as you may have been able to do in California. At the very least, make hotel reservations for Paris and Rome. I would also suggest making reservations for Venice. You want to stay in Venice, not on Lido.

The saving grace of your itinerary is that you have at least limited yourself to just Paris and Italy.

easytraveler

There's a non-stop sleeper train that goes from Paris - Bercy station (which is close to the more famous Gare de Lyon) to Verona, Italy. Leaves Paris at 10:30pm and arrives in Verona at 7:30am the next morning.

If you want to be in Venice on the 30th, then you should take this sleeper train on the night of the 29th. Be sure to book your "beds" for that night. 2nd class sleepers are fine.

From Verona (Porta Nuova station, you stay in the same station), there are plenty of trains for the one hour journey to Venice. E.g., there's a train that leaves Verona at 8am and gets to Venice a tad after 9am.

This way you save an additional day for Venice. Flying you are going to waste almost a whole day. The night train is a real time-saver.

Check out bahn.com (this is the English version of the German bahn.de) for train schedules and costs.

Personally I find the German website easier to use than the French:
http://www.sncf.com/en_EN/flash/

You may, however, have to book your sleepers on the French site.

Good advice there to skip the Amalfi coast. Why don't you play it by ear and see if you want to/have the time for this part, since it's towards the end of your trip anyhow?

ooodsie

easytraveler - is it easy to sleep on the sleeper trains? I had originally thought this may be better since we would not lose out on travel time during the day, but then read online that the quarters are warm, cramped, smelly and hard to sleep (and you have to fear for your bags being stolen, so sleep with one eye open?) .. Any insight on this would be great, as I think a sleeper train may make sense logistically, but not if we end up tired having not slept through the night and walking around like zombies the next day

easytraveler

Is it easy to sleep on the sleeper trains?

Depends.

I usually don't have difficulties, because a busy day makes me very tired and I can sleep like a log anywhere when that tired.

If you are a light sleeper you may have some problems, but it's not that much different from falling asleep on an airplane. A bit more rocking motion.

Warm? Yes, but there's some airconditioning available - i.e., you can control the temperature in the compartment. There's a knob above the door...

Is it cramped? Yes, a bit. Book the 4-berth sleepers and not the 6. There's plenty of room to store standard size luggage.

Smelly? Never been in a smelly sleeper. There may be a few, but not in my experience.

Security - yes, do lock the compartment door. There's a lock above the door, this is the bigger lock and you should always lock this lock. The conductor will tell you to lock your door. There's also a second lock lower down, either a slider or a chain lock. You can lock this too. Then there's a huge shade over the window that you can pull to block out light and prying eyes.

If you want to feel more secure, book the upper berths. There's plenty of storage above the door. I always lock up my suitcase on a train.

Check out seat61.com It has plenty of information and lots of photos.

I much prefer train to air travel within Europe. The train is so much more convenient. Gets you right into city center.

BTW, the cheaper sleepers are called "couchettes". You can book first class but these sometimes cost 4-5 times more than the 2nd class couchette. Same train, gets you there at the same time.

Hope this helps a bit.

ooodsie

Easy - Is this the Artesia train? I looked it up and even though the 1st class doubles are 2x the price of the couchettes for 6, i think it's still worth the price (when you factor we dont need to book a hotel room that night and could get a better nights sleep with just the two of us vs being with strangers). I think I am going to book this. Just wanted to be sure the train you were referring to was the Artesia, as the times dont quite match up to what you said - its more like leaving at 7PM and arriving at 9AM.

easytraveler

Believe it is. I forgot there's a direct Paris to Venice overnight train as I usually like to stop before Venice.

Good idea to book the first class two person compartment when there's two of you, much more comfortable and believe you have your own private bathroom.

(Be sure to lock the door! )

It's perfectly safe to travel on European trains which carry millions and millions of passengers every year, just take the usual precautions.

Enjoy the train ride!

hazel1

I think you risking things leaving from the AC to go back to Rome on the day you leave, especially if you're traveling by train. Your flight's not that late, so you'll need to be at the airport at least two hours ahead (and many people feel 3 hrs is needed in Rome), so you'd have to leave very early to make it. The big risk, however, is a train strike, which can happen at anytime. Better to get back to Rome the day before, or better yet, switch your itinarary so you end up with your days in Rome at the end.

ooodsie

Hazel - Yep we already decided we would switch the Positano days and Rome days, so that we end in Rome to be safe Thanks!

ooodsie

Just wanted to come back and update this thread. We ended up doing the following:

Paris 9.26-9.30
Venice 10.1-10.2
Florence 10.2-10.5
Positano 10.5-10.8
Rome 10.8-10.11
Dusseldorf 10.11-10.12

We had a fantastic time and did not feel rushed. I would have loved another day in Florence and another day in Rome or Paris perhaps. But again, we got to see and do everything we wanted and were happy with the outcome of the trip. 1.5 days in Venice was perfect for us, and I'm glad I didn't listen to those who said we should skip Venice. I loved it. Also - taking the night train worked out very well.. we did manage to get some sleep, and wake up feeling good and ready to explore Venice at 9am the next day.

indy_dad

Good for you, ooodsie. That's the best way to use the forums. Ask the question, consider the advice, make your own decision.

mamcalice

ooodsie = Thanks so much for reporting back on your trip. So happy that you had a great time. I didn't post on your original itinerary though I agreed with the other posters that you were trying to cram in too much in too short a time. Just goes to show that each of us is the best judge of how we want to travel.

TDudette

Well, I just saw this and am so glad your trip went well, oodsie. Will you share the names of hotels and some of your trip experiences?

easytraveler

Glad you got some rest on the train.

Is trip report forthcoming?