Senior confusion about train travel in England
 

After touring Devon and Cornwall in June, my husband and I plan to return our rental car in Penzance and travel back to London by train, (on a Sunday morning) to visit family. I have checked GWR for the train times etc, and find I can book the least expensive (that's a joke) tickets twelve weeks in advance. However, I see they ask all sorts of questions regarding - type of seat, which way it will face, airline or facing etc. etc. Has anyone traveled this route before and have recommendations for two confused seniors? I must get it right as there are no refunds once purchased. I'm also hoping we can book a window seat in the restaurant car (if they have one of course) to enjoy lunch and wine whilst watching the beautiful Countryside go by. But, can we do this in advance or just when we alight? And, is there somewhere we can safely store our luggage while we are dining?
Enlightenment will sincerely be appreciated.

You can pick from 'airline' which is two seats, forward or backward facing, or 'table' which is a block of four, facing each other across a table.

I prefer airline as you don't have the person across from you kicking you the whole journey.

Yes, you can specify aisle or window.

In the quiet carriage you are not allowed to use your mobile, must have or have to have it on silent (depending on who is minding the train). Likewise games consoles, MP3 players and so on.

You cannot generally sit in the buffet car - it has no seating. You either buy stuff to take back to your seat or get served at your seat (depending on class booked).

It is really not that pricy if you time your booking right.

Sorry - some of that was mistyped. No mobiles to be used in the quiet carriage (Internet access is ok, spoken conversations are not).

Seat choices are:-

pairs (airline)

fours (table)

forward facing

rear facing

aisle

window

quiet carriage

normal (ie with the rabble)

first/business - usually with snacks or a meal, leather seats, wifi and a sort of concierge.

"<i>And, is there somewhere we can safely store our luggage while we are dining?</i>"

If your luggage is any size at all it won't be at your seats. You'll stow it when you board in luggage racks/open storage at the front or back of the car. Smaller bags can go in overhead racks.

Thank you both. It's been over 50 years since we travelled by train in England. We were hoping for the old "Pullman" restaurant car in which to dine. I see some of the trains still have them but not on weekends. We will have to make do with a sandwich at our seats - not the romantic journey we envisioned. I also checked the train fares again and see a huge range in the one-way fares, anywhere from 15 pounds (at some ungodly hour) to 160 pounds (refundable) per person.

We will try to book front facing, airline seats in the quiet carriage. Thank you again.

I prefer the table seats myself - you get far more room than with the aircraft-style which I find rather claustrophobic.

shame that you won't be able to eat in the restaurant car - they are still pretty good, though expensive. your hotel might do you a packed lunch to help wile away the hours.

where are you going in Cornwall?

annhig, I too prefer the table seats (you can rest your book or cup of tea) plus, as it will be my husband who will be sitting opposite - I could kick him back if necessary. We were disappointed that there will be no restaurant car on the Sunday morning train we must chose to return to London. To wile away the six hour journey, we've decided we'll pack crusty rolls, Wensleydale cheese, piccalilli and watercress - or maybe more Cornish pasties (Ah, memories) I suppose beer or wine is taboo?

After driving from Heathrow to Plymouth (where I was raised) for five days, we will then tour Devon and stay in the Bodmin area for a few days to attend the Royal County Show. Then drive to St. Agnes for one night then onto Penzance (my birthplace) for another few nights before catching the train to London to visit husbands family for the last few days.

I'm sure this is more than you wanted to know - but you can tell that I am looking forward to revisiting places where I was born and raised. I'm now practicing my Devonshire/Cornish accent :-)

"<i>I suppose beer or wine is taboo?</i>"

Perfectly OK

<i>"I suppose beer or wine is taboo?"</i>

No problem - it's even sold on the train (admittedly at a hefty mark-up)

As for OP - have you considered doing the train journey in the opposite direction on a weekday when there is a restaurant car and see family in London at the start of your trip.

The quiet coach is not just about electronics, you are not supposed to chatter to humans as well

Beer and Wine perfectly ok, just don't spray it over the other "customers" :-)

Everything rm67 posts is technically correct but in practice this weekend we found none of it happens in reality. We travelled to London by train for the first time. The last time we did this journey fuel for the car was very expensive and the road works on the M6 near Luton were absolutely silly.

We agree that booking in advance reduces the train ticket prices down by a huge margin. We delayed our trip by 3 weeks and ended up booking what at the time was 8 weeks in advance. We also managed to get a free family rail card. The quoted 2nd class ticket prices fell from £256 to £78 simply by playing the system.

The journey took 2 hours 10 minutes which was half the time of the last road trip.

However, none of our seat reservations were accurate and we were seated backwards on the way return journey which left me feeling sick.

The quiet coach was anything but, as it is impossible to ask an under 25 year old in the UK to cope without their Apple appendage for more than 10 minutes.

The whole trip was far easier and cheaper than road travel even for 3 tickets compared to one car.

Thank you all. I am surprised that passengers are allowed to bring and drink beer or wine on trains. I wonder how they control those folks that may imbibe a little too much? Here in California, you are not even allowed to drink beer on the beach. :-(

DickieG. Oh dear, your train experience did not sound nice at all. Maybe our six hour train journey from Penzance to London on a Sunday morning will, at least, be quieter?

RM67. "It is really not that pricy if you time your booking right." So far, after hours spent searching online for the best deal, the one-way fare for two of us is 105 pounds ($170) The cheaper fares leave/arrive at ghastly times and the senior fare is not available for non-residents.

AlanRow. Not an option I'm afraid.

" the senior fare is not available for non-residents. "

There is no difference between the prices paid by UK resident oldies and foreign resident oldies. Senior fares are available only for holders of Senior Cards, which offer 33% off and cost about £25. So they make sense only if you plan on spending £75ish or more a year (and lots of foreign visitors do)- though they can also offer some discounts on London Transport.

"Here in California, you are not even allowed to drink beer on the beach"
This isn't California. Thank God.

"you are not supposed to chatter to humans as well"
Nonsense. You may chatter as much as you want in a quiet coach. You're just asked to do so quietly. Incidentally, on our line, EVERYONE - 15, 25, 55 or 95 - leaves the coach to make or take phone calls.

"<i>and the senior fare is not available for non-residents. </i>"

Are you sure? AFAIK all you need to do is buy a senior railcard when you arrive in the UK.

You've probably spotted it but some of the routes have a "change" 0 or 1. If you chose a ticket with 1 change you have to move to another train (not worth it) try for the 0 changes

Yes, it seems I did not explain my online fare findings correctly. The senior rate would be available to us if we planned more train travel during our visit to make it worth purchasing the senior rail card.

bilboburgler. Yes, I always seek train or flights with zero changes.

flanneruk. It seems you are always so disagreeable when replying in this forum. Have you actually lived in California or just making a judgement by what you hear/read in the media?

OK --yes -- flanner can have his 'moments' - but what on earth was wrong w/ what he said?? I am also a Californian and nearly posted the same thing (didn't see his post since we were on at the same time). But I almost posted >>THANK GOD it isn't CA - which is trying to become the biggest nanny state anywhere<<.

No open containers, no games on the beach, no fun . . .

Agree.:)

I suppose beer or wine is taboo?>>

as answered above, not at all. in fact, if you get a coach full of people nattering away on their phones, it may be essential.

i'm sorry you were offended by flanner - but I really don't think that he was trying to be offensive.

not this time!

your trip sounds good - and I'm sure that you know that Bodmin is in Cornwall, not Devon!

So, there are cheaper fares available - you just chose not to book one. Absolutely your perogative, but it does mean that you're being a little bit disingenuous about the cost.

My experience of using FGW is that you always get the seat you've booked. If someone else is sitting it, don't be scared to politely ask them to vacate it. Or get the train manager to ask them to move.

Enforcement of quiet carriage rules does vary a lot. It is usually quiet and the phone rules are usually well-observed. But not absolutely always.

I think your picnic sounds lovely and probably better than anything served onboard. BTW, did you know that you can book specific dining trips on those old Pullman carriages? Not sure how long you're spending in the UK, but one of these specialised day trips might fit the bill.

RM67

I may be mistaken.

I have been on a train journey 3 times in 10 years and so am no expert.

Is the quiet coach simply a no phone area or does it refer to those extremely annoying IPods that seem to have one volume setting - full?

No phone calls were made but it was like having tinnitus for 2 hours.

annhig. Yes, I do, thank you.

We also think that some of the new rules here are absolutely ridiculous - and happy to notice most are ignored :-)

I admit, I do get defensive when my chosen home is criticized. I react the same way when people here are negative about England. I overreacted with flanneruk because of his offensive answer to a previous question I had.

I must admit I've never noticed the rules being enforced as such in the quiet carriage, other than silent glares from other passengers at transgressors.

The last time I travelled in a quiet coach, there were several people working on their laptops. There was a family with a child playing a loud computer game. One of the passengers complained and the family was told to move.
The mother was indignant, but it wasn't very sensible to take children into a quiet coach.

The seat reservations are just requests at time of booking, you aren't guaranteed to get what you ask for and you don't find out until you get your ticket. After all, if a whole train-full of people ask for window seats, you know a lot of them are going to have to be disappointed. But it's a fair chance and the sooner you book the more likely it is that your chosen option will still be available.

Quiet coaches - they vary on how well they are implemented. I love them as even the worst ones are better than normal carriages. People turn a blind eye (or glare) at people briefly making calls etc but any time there's been someone being really noisy another passenger has told them to stop and they do. Or a train guard has told them off. There's no need to sit and suffer - just remind the person it's a quiet coach and they need to move elsewhere to take that call/listen to their music etc.

The seat reservations are just requests at time of booking, you aren't guaranteed to get what you ask for and you don't find out until you get your ticket. After all, if a whole train-full of people ask for window seats, you know a lot of them are going to have to be disappointed. But it's a fair chance and the sooner you book the more likely it is that your chosen option will still be available.

Quiet coaches - they vary on how well they are implemented. I love them as even the worst ones are better than normal carriages. People turn a blind eye (or glare) at people briefly making calls etc but any time there's been someone being really noisy another passenger has told them to stop and they do. Or a train guard has told them off. There's no need to sit and suffer - just remind the person it's a quiet coach and they need to move elsewhere to take that call/listen to their music etc.

RM67 Well, I did state "Senior Confusion" in my question heading - and you are absolutely correct. If we were more flexible in our choice of day and time to travel from Penzance to Paddington, we could find a fare for as little as 15 pounds. But, unfortunately, we're not able to be that flexible during our limited stay in England. When searching online, I was just concentrating on the only day we have, and to travel by day so that we could enjoy looking at the passing Countryside.

I think we must wait 8 - 12 weeks prior to our travel day before we can book, and pay for, our seats. So hopefully, we will manage to get the seats of our choice. I even found, and printed out, a seating plan of the train. :-)

Thank you all for your input and patience.

I think we must wait 8 - 12 weeks prior to our travel day before we can book, and pay for, our seats. So hopefully, we will manage to get the seats of our choice. I even found, and printed out, a seating plan of the train. >>

best of luck!

annhig - ooops, is that wishing me good luck in buying a ticket or securing our choice of seats? I'm thinking I may have a bit of luck because we are getting on at the terminal and on a Sunday morning. Ah well.

if you reserve a seat on a train then you are entitled to use it, if other people are sitting in it then ask them to move, i travel by train weekly (leicester-cambridge) and only on a couple of occasions have i had problems with people not wanting to move, occasionally i admit if the seat has been rear facing and there is a forward facing seat available i'll leave them to it, but my first 2 years of weekly travel were with my small daughter and i booked seats for a reason!

annhig - ooops, is that wishing me good luck in buying a ticket or securing our choice of seats?>>

Both!

Trains ....i am planning on pre-ordering a BritRail pass (not available to U.K. residents)..pick the area: London area, all of England, Add Wales or Scotland and even Ireland.......then pic how many days unlimited travel you want to do on 1. fixed number of days in a row or 2. Flexible days .......it sounds good to me. I found the link on the VisitBritain site and also BritRail

<B>Donna_LaRue:</B> for most visitors (not all, but definitely most) a BritRail Pass is NOT cost effective. The people it does <i>sometimes</i> benefit are those who do a lot of train journeys and can't/don't want to nail down specific times/itineraries. Otherwise BRPasses can be very expensive.

Have you looked at the advance purchase fares for the journeys you are planning?