Seine River banks: History question

Old Sep 25th, 2006, 05:53 AM
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Seine River banks: History question

I've tried Google and other sources to research this question, but to no avail.

When we were walking along the quais of the Seine last week, we wondered whether Paris "street level" is the natural level of the land. Or were the Isles and the areas near the river extensively filled when the quais were built? Are the ubiquitous "basements" actually at the natural land level?

Fodorites are so helpful with these things. Can someone please point me in the right direction to research this subject?
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Old Sep 25th, 2006, 06:43 AM
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In old cities, the current street level is rarely the natural/historical street level (see Rome!). In Paris the medieval and roman levels are several metres below the present street level, especially in the vicinity of the river. There used to be no quays and the ground sloped down to the river level.

For instance, when the Ile Saint-Louis was developped in the 17th century, the bridge and quays were built at the developpers' expense and the inside of the island filled in order to raise the ground level (to protect the new neighbourhoods from floods)

At the Ile de la Cité, the original ground level is still visible at the island's western tip (square du Vert-Galant)
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Old Sep 25th, 2006, 07:11 AM
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Thank you very much! That concurs with what we'd assumed.

I hadn't thought about that little tip of land on Ile de la Cite. But, of course! So, a LOT of filling was done to reach the current level near the river banks. Am I correct to assume the streets farther back reflect the natural rise of the land as represented by the many hills found there today?

Can you suggest any keywords I might search on to find out more about this era in Paris' development? Any prominent city designers/engineers, for example?
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Old Sep 25th, 2006, 07:25 AM
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Hausseman is quite famous for his razing of a lot of the medieval buildings in the mid 1800's so that many of the grand boulevards could be created.
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Old Sep 25th, 2006, 07:43 AM
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You might want to try Alistair Horne's "Seven Ages of Paris" for a readable history of the city from the Middle Ages onward.
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Old Sep 25th, 2006, 07:48 AM
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I have an old postcard from Paris showing the aptly named Rue du Bac completely underwater due to flooding - thus the natural flood plain of the Seine must have caused the city builders thru time to raise levy-like walls along the Seine i think.
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Old Sep 25th, 2006, 08:55 AM
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To Jeanne B :

You could do searches typing Haussmann or Alphand (lesser known designer of Paris' 19 the century parks and gardens)

Here is a nice site with 3D reconstructions of Roman Paris, showing the river banks as they were :
www.paris.culture.fr/en/

Some low-lying areas were indeed filled in for development, but some hills were razed as well. When you look at the Tour Saint-Jacques (unfortunately under scaffolding presently), its second floor is actually its original ground level, as the earth around it was carted out in Haussmann days when the rue de Rivoli was laid out.

Some small hills in the centre of Paris are simply medieval dump areas, which were later developped.

However the larger hills around Paris are the original terrain of course, but the actual shape of the hills, steepness of the slopes, etc result from the extensive quarrying out of gypsum (a rock which is fired to make plaster) which was officially ruled out in the 1860's. In some areas, the ground is still very brittle as entire blocks were built on former quarrying areas, simply filled in with ruble. In Montmartre you can see tilting buildings, cracks on walls, etc because the structures are sinking. Heavy tourist buses are still banned from Montmartre just because of that.

The Parc des Buttes Chaumont is a former gypsum quarry, which was landscaped into a park by Alphand in the 1860's.
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Old Sep 25th, 2006, 01:58 PM
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I just knew Fodorites could get me started. That's exactly what I was looking for. Fascinating.
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Old Sep 26th, 2006, 04:47 AM
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There used to be two other islands on the Seine besides Ile de la Cité -- Ile Notre-Dame and Ile aux Vaches. They were merged into one at the beginning of the the 17th century and became the Ile Saint Louis. So Ile Saint Louis is an almost totally man-made creation.
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Old Jul 24th, 2007, 09:35 PM
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Beneath the square in front of the Notre Damme is a roman era excavation covered by the museum pass.
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Old Jul 24th, 2007, 09:59 PM
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"In old cities, the current street level is rarely the natural/historical street level"
There is a well known story about A plumber in the city of York (allegedly the most haunted city in Europe) who, in 1953, saw a ghostly legion of Roman soldiers marching through a cellar (where he was working), which it turned out had been built on a Roman road. However, the soldiers appeared to be walking on their knees, as their "feet" were still walking on the old Roman road, over a foot below the cellar floor.

http://www.britannia.com/history/leg.../yorkgt05.html
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Old Jul 25th, 2007, 12:27 AM
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Andrew Hussey's Secret History of Paris has quite a bit about the physical development of the city from the earliest times, as well as the social and political history.
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Old Jul 25th, 2007, 07:54 AM
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There is also a book on the Seine which I have read--sorry I can't remember the name. However, it traced the Seine from its very beginnings down through Paris. You might be able to do a search through Amazon. It's been about 3 years since I read it but it seems like the author may have lived on a houseboat for awhile. It was an interesting book.
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