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Seeking suggestions for our 2+ weeks in Bravaria/West Austria/Switzerland
Hello All,
Below is our planned trip in Jun. Originally, we started with Swiss trip, but then we decided to add Bravaria and west parts of Austria thinking that is viable.
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I am no expert on these areas, have been to Switzerland twice, but both times were many years ago. That said, what do you mean by "limited mobility"? Depending on how limited this person's mobility is, it seems like a great deal of this trip would be very difficult or even impossible. Also, I'm tired just reading the itinerary but leave it to people who are more knowledgeable in these areas as to the feasibility of it.
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Originally Posted by SusanP
(Post 17461440)
I am no expert on these areas, have been to Switzerland twice, but both times were many years ago. That said, what do you mean by "limited mobility"? Depending on how limited this person's mobility is, it seems like a great deal of this trip would be very difficult or even impossible. Also, I'm tired just reading the itinerary but leave it to people who are more knowledgeable in these areas as to the feasibility of it.
Side question for anyone that may be aware of, can we use the US handicap placard to park in handicap spots in these countries or any different permit is needed? 1. Walk from parking to Neuschwanstein castle. Substituted with bus ride, 2. Walk from snow stadium parking lot to Partnachklamm may be substituted with horse carriage ride, 3. Enjoy the clock tower in Innsbruck from grounds and avoid climb 4. At Hallstatt take Funicular down while others may take the Panorama trail walking down 5. At Hallstatt skip Salt mine to avoid the slide inside mine 6. At Titlis be mindful and evaluate cliff walk 7. At Titlis be mindful of Ice Cave. (may be wear Yaktrax Ice Cleat) 8.Similar cautious decisions at Jungfraujoch, Schilthorn and at Zermatt Gornergratt |
Again, not an expert in this area, just trying to be realistic. For the accommodations you list for the family member with limited mobility, #'s 6, 7 & 8 seem worrying, especially #7. Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem like a person with a leg brace and cane and not able to walk very far should be hiking an ice cave, even with ice cleats!
As far as disability being a mindset, how does your disabled family member feel about that idea? |
Yes, Switzerland is very expensive. The way I travel, Germany and Austria are cheaper than the US. I have never had a bad hotel/inn in these countries. Less expensive does not equal a bad place.
The trip looks good, a little ambitious. I always try to do the most important activity first. |
Switzerland is expensive. I have been to all the places (multiple times) you are visiting. You are certainly packing in a lot of sightseeing. I agree with bigtyke that you should prioritize your activities. My biggest suggestion is to slow down. Soak in the beauty and atmosphere of the area you are in.
Check to see if you need reservations to certain places. Early reservations are mandatory at Neuschwanstein Castle if you want a certain time for your tour. Even using the bus or carriage ride at Neuschwanstein Castle it involves quite a bit of up/downhill walking. So does nearby Hohenshwangau Castle, which I found more interesting than Neuschwanstein Castle. The cog railway to Gornergrat (from Zermatt) invovles little walking (except for the path down hill to Riffelhorn). Beautiful view of the Matterhorn and the Gorner Glacier. The other trip up to Kleine Matterhorn (Glacier Paradise) involves a lot more walking but has views of the Matterhorn, other peaks and Italy. You have to ride gondola lifts up to Kleine Matterhorn and many times (even in summer) you can watch the skiers coming down the ski runs. We made our reservations for the Lindt Chocolate Factory via their website a few days prior to our tour. I believe you need reservations at Cailler Chocolate Factory also. You may not need to visit both factories. I have visited both on different trips and prefer the Cailler Chocolate Factory tour. I love the little town of Broc. Trummelbach Falls involves going down a lot of stairs. Elevator takes you up and then you walk down to see the different views of the falls. Staubbach Falls involves a path to get to the falls and go behind it. Behind it can be slippery. As for the Jungfraujoch, many people say not to go up if it is cloudy. The first time I went up if was raining and cloudy in Wengen. The top was in sunshine and it was like floating on clouds. I loved it! No, I did not get the views from the top, but it was like I was at the top of the world. I have been there two other times when it was clear. It is always windy and cold up at the top. We buy snacks and sometimes items for dinner at either the Coop or Migros markets. Some Coops even have restaurants (cafeterias) that serve very reasonable food. Vegetarian food is not hard to find. Have a wonderful time. |
I would never drive after a overnight flight.
Buy your Half Fare Card at Zurich airport (or in the web) and spend the first day(s) at either Zurich or Lucerne. Then rent a car and drive to Fuessen (may be without bypassing all the gems along the route). How do you plan to go from Hallstatt to Heiligenblut? The normal itinerary would go via Bischofshofen - Bruck (Zell am See) - Grossglockner. If you do that, you can then continue from Heiligenblut via Lienz - Bruneck to Franzensfeste and then either to Innsbruck or to Bolzano/Bozen - Mustair Monastery - St. Moritz - Switzerland. This latter itinerary through the mountains would be much more scenic. Innsbruck can easily be visited between Partnachklamm (hike!) and Salzburg. The drive from Lauterbrunnen to Taesch may take more time than you may imagine: drive to Kandersteg (1 hr) - waiting time (about 20 min) - car transport to Goppenstein (20 min) - drive to Taesch (1 hr) |
Why are you keeping the car? You don't need a car in Switzerland, the public transport system is second to none. Buying a Half Fare Card AND having a rental car makes absolutely no sense to me.
As for the itinerary, way too ambitious and structured IMO. Your days are full on packed and don't sound very relaxing. What if the weather is lousy? FWIW I much preferred Cailler Chocolate Factory over Lindt too, and we didn't book for either, but we we tend to travel off season. Absolutely do not book the Jungfraujoch until you know what the weather is going to be like. Switzerland can be frightfully expensive. You can save money by having your main meal at lunch - many resturants offer a set price Tageskarte, menu of the day, with at least one meat and one vegetarian option. That's usually the only way my carnivore spouse gets any meat while we're in Switzerland:) Grocery stores, like Migros and Coop have a lot of ready made salad and sandwich options. In the bigger cities they also have attached cafeterias - at least Migros does. The Manor department store in Lucerne also has a cafeteria which is good value (for Switzerland). Austria will seem cheap by comparison. |
PS - I suggest you think in nights, not days. Three nights in one place gives you two full days, two nights gives you one full day, etc. Travel days are often lost.
Hopping into a rental car the minute you arrive after an overnight flight is not a good idea. I assume you're flying from the US? |
Shortly after Landeck on your way to Luzern take a left on Landstrasse 188 for a drive into the Voralberg. You will rejoin the main road just before Bludenz.
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Thank you for the itinerary review, some great suggestions and cautionary advice for places where walk/climbs will get challenging. We would certainly plan as per these suggestions.
Many of you advised to slow down. Our travel bucket list is long and we're worried that it may be while (perhaps never :worry: ) before we may be able to revisit these areas. Hence such ambitious plan, perhaps little too much :). But, with your advice we are more mentally prepared to miss few things and it will be ok. We believe car is going to be just more for convenience and also cost effective, than taking Swiss train pass for everyone in the family. We are traveling in 3 countries so Swiss Pass would not have helped traveling across countries. We calculated cost of tickets to the places where car won't be able to go. For example, most gondola rides or train rides to the mountain peaks. Investing in Half Fare Card helps us save some money as compare to purchasing full fare tickets to these places. We love to try out local food, so planning to explore; but also appreciate recommendations such as trying prefixed meals/sandwiches at Migros/Coops.That idea is not just going to help save some money but may also turn out handy especially when we run short on times. Any, must try restaurant recommendations at places in our itinerary? For example, we would love to try some good fondue in Switzerland. We like visiting Melting Pot in USA, so I am hoping that we would have much better choices in Switzerland :) Also, we have 4 mountain peaks in our trip; Titlis (Luzern area), Jungfraujoch, Schilthorn (around Lauterbrunnan valley) and then Gornergrat (Zermat area). Travel to these areas is very expensive, so I like the advice of checking weather and then making a decision. Can we check weather before leaving from hotel room or the most reliable weather information is available only near the ticketing counters for each of these places? Just in case, our luck is not with us and we need to skip any of these mountain peaks, what alternative activities be done in these respective areas? having car perhaps is little more connivance when we need to change things impromptu. |
Everyone has a long bucket list, I have a list for each base, wet weather / dry weather ideas, and check local forecasts daily. I check evening before, then on the morning, and the local mountain webcams.
Plan days around that. Lake visits if it’s cloudy, or check webcams to see if peaks are above the clouds as that’s magical too (BarbAnns point). Rainy days are better for town wanderings. So, for example we were in San Candido for 8 nights but there was only a single morning of full sunshine that we (and everyone else) took advantage of to go to Tre Cime. The forecast showed sun from 9-12 so we left at 8, got the best of the weather and views, and were in thick cloud by 12:30 when we were leaving. We have been to Wengen for 12 nights over 2 trips and have not done the Jungfraujoch excursion yet. We have had fabulous mountain experiences and haven’t felt that we ‘missed out’. We opted for Schilthorn on our sunniest day, and the walk from Lauterbrunnen to the cablecar is so amazing, those steep cliffs soaring above, and it’s a flat easy walk. Partnachklamm is beautiful, but can be slippery and the less able bodied might need to return same way. The others would possibly enjoy the steep walk uphill and a fabulous lunch at hotel, can gondola or chairlift down. |
Hello Michael,
Thank you for the suggestion. is this a scenic drive detour from Landeck to Bludenz via Hwy 188? Innsbruck to Luzern is our longest drive in our entire itinerary. How much additional time it would add for us on this scenic route? Any possibilities of traffic jams in summer month (June)? Day before, we are driving on Grossglockner Road? is the landscape on this suggested detour similar to what we experience on Grossglockner Road or it would be another unique experience? Thank you, |
We believe car is going to be just more for convenience and also cost effective, than taking Swiss train pass for everyone in the family. We are traveling in 3 countries so Swiss Pass would not have helped traveling across countries. We calculated cost of tickets to the places where car won't be able to go. For example, most gondola rides or train rides to the mountain peaks. Investing in Half Fare Card helps us save some money as compare to purchasing full fare tickets to these places.
I'm not suggesting the Swiss Pass, but the Half Fare Card. Do look at rental car costs, vignettes (needed in all three countries) gas and parking when doing your calculations. Also look into your rental car company's rules regarding taking the car outside of the country you rented it in, so there are no surprises. Parking (especially in Switzerland) is expensive, and can be hard to find (you might have to book a spot in Tasch and Lauterbrunnen ahead of time, but I'm not sure of this). Personally, I find public transport easy, convenient and stress free and I have visited all the areas on your extensive list via public transport in all three countries. Trains in Germany and Austria are less expensive than in Switzerland and there are various day passes that cover up to five people that are quite reasonably priced. How many people are in your party? As for restaurants, I can suggets a few, I will post back in a few minutes. You can check the mountain top weather cams from your hotel TV, as well as from tourist and ticket offices. Lots to do if the weather on the mountain tops is obscured - take a hike or walk, explore the villages and just take in the fabulous scenery. |
Food suggestions:
Innsbruck: Markthalle - https://www.markthalle-innsbruck.at/. Several small cafes here, plus a really good wine bar. Lauterbrunnen: https://www.hoteloberland.ch/restaurant/ Zermatt: Home - something for everyone here You'll find fondue just about everywhere in Switzerland, although it's not really a summer item, it's usually still available for tourists, often sold in portions for two or more. Raclette is also a good option. I've never had bad fondue or raclette in 25 years of visiting Switzerland, so don't worry about where to get it, although Gruyères would be the obvious choice for both. Don't miss the wonderful ice cream concoctions and rosti.. |
Other food suggestions in Innsbruck:
Great coffee and cakes: https://www.mannainnsbruck.at/ Tyrol’s Oldest Confectionery - https://www.munding.at/ |
Originally Posted by jpjax
(Post 17462470)
Hello Michael,
Thank you for the suggestion. is this a scenic drive detour from Landeck to Bludenz via Hwy 188? Innsbruck to Luzern is our longest drive in our entire itinerary. How much additional time it would add for us on this scenic route? Any possibilities of traffic jams in summer month (June)? Day before, we are driving on Grossglockner Road? is the landscape on this suggested detour similar to what we experience on Grossglockner Road or it would be another unique experience? Thank you, As to time, Google map should be able to give the driving time between Landeck and Bludenz for the two alternatives. |
For Swiss people. the Silvretta-Hochalpenstrasse Landeck - ischgl - Bielerhoehe - Gaschurn - Schruns - Bludenz is nothing to write home about.
The Grossglockner road Zell am See - Hochtor - Wallackhaus - Heiligenblut - Iselsberg - Lienz is much more scenic. But plan enough time for a side trip to Glocknerhaus - Franz-Josef-Haus, just in front of the Pasterze Glacier. A not too rushed itinerary coul look like this: Day 5: Leave Hallstatt at 4pm and arrive at Zell am See at 6pm. Enjoy the Lake and the village and sleep there. Day 6: Zell dp 9am - Franz-Josefs-Haus ar 10am. Have a look at the visitor's center and enjoy the glacier view. Dp 11.15 - Lienz ar 12.00.Enjoy this scenic small city and hyave lunch in a typical Tyrolian restaurant. Lienz dp 14.00 - Bolzano/Bozen ar 18.30 with stop overs at Bruneck and Brixen. Sleep at Bozen. Day 7: Visit the historic city center of Bozen and the Oetzi Museum (Archeological Museum). Bozen dp 11.00 - Glurns ar 12.30. Visit the smallest entirely walled city of the world. Drive then to Mustair nearby and enjoy the medieval frescoes in the Unesco World heritage monastery. Leave Mustair around 2pm and drive to - Tirano - Bernina Diavolezza, park your car there and go by dondloa (last departure at 17.20) to Diavolezza Hotel, at nearly 10000ft, in the middle of glaciers (gondola, 4course dinner, double room and breakfast 200 EUR pax). Day 8: Go down with the 8.20 gondola and drive to Bellinzona (ar towards noon) visit the 3 medieval castles, have lunch and proceed then to either Lucerne (1 3/4 hrs), Taesch (4 hrs) or Interlaken (2 1/2 hrs). . |
Originally Posted by Michael
(Post 17462577)
Definitely more scenic than driving in the valley, but not having driven on the Grossglocker road, I can't make the comparison. It might be a lesser known Alpine road and thus with fewer tourists?
As to time, Google map should be able to give the driving time between Landeck and Bludenz for the two alternatives. I believe this is also referred as Silvretta straße route. Great option. As such, we need start making choices, as I am learning from this community that everything on our itinerary may not be feasible. |
Originally Posted by Melnq8
(Post 17462563)
Other food suggestions in Innsbruck:
Great coffee and cakes: https://www.mannainnsbruck.at/ Tyrol’s Oldest Confectionery - https://www.munding.at/ Would certainly try Rosti and Icecreams in local places as suggested! Any suggestions for best schnitzel! |
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