tostaky

Hi , My family of four (2 adults, 2 kids 4 and 8 yearls old) are going to Germany next summer (22-25 days between july 11 and august 20). I need advice on that itiniary (we are very open to any change since nothing is booked yet).
Arrival in Frankfurt (departure from Munich...the contrary can be do for the same price)
car rental in Frankfurt. We want to get around Mosel-rhein for 5 days (Boppard, Cochem Trier, Koblenz and such places).
What about those 2 options ?
1) Return the car to Frankfurt to catch a train to get to Berlin
2) go to Berlin with a night stop and leave the car In Berlin
Berlin 4-5 nights
Berlin -Dresden (2 nights in dresden)
Dresden-Nuremberg 3-4 nights Nuremberg (or a small town not too far from Nuremberg) : daytrip to Bamberg and Wurrzburg
Nuremberg-Munich 4-5 nights Munich ( daytrip to Salzburg)
1) Should we do it another way (Munich first, Nuremberg, Berlin and Moselle valley last ? )
2) Is it too rushed ?
Thanks a lot in advance !

Underhill

That's a very rushed itinerary; consider pruning it a bit.

tostaky

Where would you cut or add time ?

PalenQ

I don't see it as too rushed at all - you have several days in most bases and why not drive to Berlin and ditch the car?

Are you doing the last part from Berlin by rail or car?

Order seems logical too - keep the car the whole time - Berlin is one city that is easy to drive in - wide roads after the city was decimated during WW2 - Drive out to the Wannsee - lovely boat rides kids may like - drive to Potsdam for the wonderful Sans Souci Palace and park - drive to Sachenhausen to see a concentration/work camp under the Nazis - very evocative.

If taking trains let us know and we can give advice about passes or discount tickets, etc.

tostaky

My plan was to ditch the car In berlin and do the rest by train. We are not close to do all the trip by train, we just thought that since we will see more small (or big !) village in the Moselle valley it could be easier by car.

I've already got some ideas about train tickets (I have taken an extensive look on dbahn website and read on seat 61) but all advices are welcome !

PalenQ

Yes www.seat61.com is the expert on discounted tickets and once you get to Bavaria (Nurnberg et all) use the bargain Bavaria Pass where for up to several people can travel all day for just 35 euros or so - but those passes also come in first class for not that much more and regional trains IME can become very very crowded at times - especially when school kids swarm aboard trains that act as school buses - first class will be pretty empty but 2nd class can be SRO - not nearly always but first class for the relatively little extra can be a more relaxed ride. Other sites with nice rail info - www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

But I'd keep the car really for the same reasons you gave for the Mosel - like you can drive down the Romantic Road from Wurzburg to Rotheburg (one of the finest medieval walled towns in Europe) and thru gems like Dinkelsbuhl all the way to Fussen for Mad Ludwig's Castles which your kids will love more than any of the zillions of old castles in Germany IMO.

Fussgaenger

"...since we will see more small (or big !) village in the Moselle valley it could be easier by car."

The train stops at all the major towns (like Trier, Koblenz and Cochem) and nearly all the tiny villages along the Mosel River between Koblenz and Traben-Trarbach... Winningen, Cochem, Ediger-Eller, Moselkern, Neef, Bullay, Kobern-Gondorf, and many other very small wine towns and villages. The train follows the river the entire way between Koblenz and Cochem, a very scenic route:

http://www.zughalt.de/wp-content/upl...10/DB11321.jpg

Train service is all day long and every hour or better. Although many people choose a car out of preference (or because they think mistakenly that they need a car for small villages,) you do not need a car there.

The one popular Mosel destination without a train station is Bernkastel. But you can still get there from Cochem (which in fact is a good travel base town) in an hour or so if you wish - just take the train to Wittlich and make a bus transfer there. Driving to Bernkastel takes just as long - about 1 hour - as the roads are not as direct as the train route.

PalenQ

Burg Eltz cannot be reached by train but take a train to Moselkern from Cochem and do a lovely uphill walk thru a forest to one of Germany's most famous castles or take a taxi or shuttle mini-bus. You can rent a bike an roll down river (usually with wind) to Moselkern too and put bike on train to go back to Cochem (or do a ride back - though often into the wind.)

Sassafrass

Bookmarking

tostaky

What does ''bookmarking'' means ?

Thanks for all your advices, they are helpfull ! I'm still debating about getting a car (for the whole trip or part of it) or not, I can read as many people telling that car is not necessary that people who says that it should be a lot easier/better with it .

I also have a hard time deciding what will be our base town in the first part of our trip. We thought about Koblenz since all trains seems to go there but ive ride that this big town doen't have any charm. We want to do daytrip to Trier, Cochem, Bacharach, Burg eltz castle.

The north (Hamburg and Lübeck) seems lovely, i don't know if I could/should drop somethnig to go there.

Questions questions !

Fussgaenger

"I'm still debating about getting a car (for the whole trip or part of it) or not, I can read as many people telling that car is not necessary that people who says that it should be a lot easier/better with it ."

You will always encounter such differences of opinion because of personal preferences. Most visitors visit an area once and go home, so they have only their own experience (and only the one transportation method they chose for themselves) to advocate.

Also... NONE of those commenters know you and your family. What you need to consider is how convenient the train or car is for YOUR situation and for YOUR destinations.

" We want to do daytrip to Trier, Cochem, Bacharach, Burg eltz castle."

The first 3 are easy to reach by train. Burg Eltz is a lovely castle to visit. It's a guided castle tour, however, which may or man not be the right choice with a 4-year-old... Also, you may or may not be able to join an English-language tour there - depends on whether enough other English-speakers are on the premises. IF you decide to go there as a family, then the 4-year old probably will NOT enjoy the walk from Moselkern unless he's on your back.

http://www.bensbauernhof.com/burgeltzfrommoselkern.html

It's an easy walk for adults - I've done it with my 75-year-old in-laws. But kids are a different story... So if you use trains, you would want to schedule your visit on a Saturday or Sunday, when there are connecting buses that take you to the castle and back to the river.

Generally speaking, Rheinfels Castle in St. Goar is a much better choice with a 4-year-old.

"We thought about Koblenz since all trains seems to go there..."

True but staying near the station in Koblenz for outings is a bit dreary, and those trains that go to Koblenz also stop in the Mosel and Rhine towns too. You can get anywhere from anywhere. Boppard is just 15 minutes from Koblenz and is a good alternative for train users.

Boppard-Bacharach = 20 min.
Boppard-Bingen (to start Rhine cruise) = 30 min.
Boppard-Moselkern = 60 min.
Boppard-Cochem = 60 min.

A VRM day pass will cost only €22/day for any of the above trips:

http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and...eisure-ticket/

HOWEVER, using one town as your only base doesn't work well if you plan to visit Trier.

Boppard-Trier = 2 hours

So if you go by train and plan to see Trier, then I think you'd do best with a Rhine base town AND a Mosel base town (probably Cochem, a very enchanting place.)

Once you're in small towns like Cochem and Bacharach getting around on foot is pretty easy. Cochem has a shuttle bus to the castle and falconry show:

http://geo.hlipp.de/photos/07/32/073270_f4807b62.jpg

Trier is a small pain to drive and park in. St. Goar is easy too and offers a shuttle in summer if you don't want to do the uphill hike to Rheinfels Castle:

http://www.teleporttelescopes.com/Eu...080901-450.jpg

But that doesn't mean you SHOULD use the train. There might be reasons that you have to rely on a car... A place for the 4-year-old to nap? To store your food supplies?? You need to think about a lot of personal details before you decide.

Fussgaenger

Correction: This is incorrect - "A VRM day pass will cost only €22/day for any of the above trips"

"Boppard-Bacharach = 20 min.
Boppard-Bingen (to start Rhine cruise) = 30 min.
Boppard-Moselkern = 60 min.
Boppard-Cochem = 60 min."

Sorry...

That day pass is good for Boppard-Moselkern-Burg Eltz and for Boppard-Cochem. It is also good for Boppard-St. Goar.

For Boppard-Bacharach and Boppard-Bingen and for any day trip to Trier you should get the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket instead (€29 for the family.)

http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and...-pfalz-ticket/