travelcat48

I never sign my credit/debit cards....all say "see photo ID" in the signature section. I have never had a problem in US, Canada, but will be in Germany, France this fall ---- will there be a problem without my signature on these cards? Has anyone used cards with "see photo ID" instead of signature?
Thanks, Pam

Robert2533

You probably will have a problem, depending on the merchant. Restaurants seldom check, but all merchants do and could ask to see your passport.

StuDudley

Our cards are not signed - and we spend 2 months traveling around in France most years. We were in Italy this year too - and no problems there. Not 100% of the merchants would accept a swipe card however. We had to use the BofA Travel Card) which is a chip & signature card) several times - which is also not signed.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

>>You probably will have a problem,<<

We had 40 transactions on our Cap One card this past June/July in France & nobody asked to see any identification. Most of these were at grocery stores, gas stations, and restaurants.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

We used our chip card 9 different times because merchants could/would not accept the swipe card. There were 5 different merchants for these 9 transactions. Two different restaurants, two different groceries (both carrefours, however), and the SNCF.

Stu Dudley

Robert2533

"Most of these were at grocery stores, gas stations, and restaurants." As noted, they seldom ask. The Bon Marche might!

Cowboy1968

As Germany has only "recently" (last 2-3 years) gradually phased in chip+PIN credit cards, all merchants have card readers that can do swipe and sign as well as chip+PIN.
And since not all credit cards worldwide are already chip+PIN, why would you install only chip+PIN readers as the dual devices exist and probably cost just a few euros more? But that's not been the question

The real issue might be that fewer restaurants and merchants in Germany accept credit cards as in the US.
Chain supermarkets accept plastic, neighborhood grocers usually not.
Brand chain stores (like the ones at your local mall) will accept, the quirky little 2nd hand boutique will probably not.
95% of gas stations accept plastic (again, all major brands), the handful of small independent or the discount gas stations at shopping centers may not. At either, you don't pre-pay with plastic at the pump or inside, but pump first, then pay inside.
With restaurants, always check at the entrance door if you see the stickers with the logos of the CC companies. And again, the local rustic beer garden will most probably take only cash while the steakhouse will take all plastic.

Chances are that you will need more often cash here, but as ATMs are everywhere that should not be much of an issue.

alanRow

Unless your name is "see photo ID" then what you are doing is wrong even in your home country (hint - there's a reason why it says SIGNATURE).

But how does photo id prove you are entitled to use a particular card? I'm willing to bet it would take a couple of minutes to knock up ID to "prove" you are entitled to use a card you "obtained".

sparkchaser

In addition to have written "Ask for ID" on the back of my US and German debit cards and credit cards. It is written in English and German. <b>Nobody</b> outside of the US has ever asked for my photo ID.

alanRow, you are correct that an industrious criminal could doctor up some ID; however, for US usage it does deter your run of the mill petty crook.

Flyertalk had an interesting discussion about this and how clerks that ask for ID based on the "ask for ID" statement you write on the back of the card might be in violation of the business's merchant agreement.

OP, I've never been asked but on the odd chance that you are, I'd carry your passport just in case.

xyz123

This is something I don't understand, never had and never will. Let me make some points and if you disagree, that is your prerogative but..

1. The vast majority of credit card fraud occurs on-line. Obviously signing the signature panel ask for id does not good on that.

2. The next source of credit card fraud is not somebody actually stealing your card; rather it is cloned cards. The vermin who pull this sort of thing use devices to capture information from the magnetic strips (and even some emv chips but nowhere near as often) and then clone the card. What good does it do that you still have the original card in your wallet while somebody is merrily going along charging up nicde meals thousands of miles from home.

3. Technically it invalidates the card as you are required to sign the card on the signature panel but at least here in the USA few merchants check signatures; European merchants are more likely to check signatures on the archaic American magnetic strip cards.

4. MC/visa operating procedures do not prohibit merchants from asking for id but do prohibit merchants from refusing to complete a sale for lack of identification. Admittedly the regs do allow local governments to overrule this prohibition but I don't know how often it happens.

5. Look over the years I have been a victim of cloned credit cards 3 or 4 times. It happens. The first time it was traumatic but a few phone calls resolved the issue and that was the end of it other than the inconvenience of notifying merchants who use that particular card for automatic payments (cable tv, mobile phone companies, utility companies, ez pass tolls etc.) But then again whenever they issue a new card with a new expiration number and/or new ccv number (the three digit code on the signature panel) I have to do the same thing.

However, identity theft is a horse of a different color. That is much much harder to clear up and when you show id, you are giving a possible identity thief more information than just your credit card number and could, although it is a minuscule problem but you show a clerk your driver's license, some people are good at that and can quickly get your driver's license number or birthdate or whatever and with this information you can be subject to identity theft.

So in all due respect, I just don't see the advantage of writing see ID on your signature panel. It is very rare in this day and age that the physical card gets stolen.

StuDudley

>> But then again whenever they issue a new card with a new expiration number and/or new ccv number (the three digit code on the signature panel) I have to do the same thing. <<

That's not what happens to us. We have three cards that we charge a couple of dozen recurring payments to. We've been doing this for at least 15 years. We have never had to notify anyone when an expiration & ccv has changed. One changed just last year. When an entire card number has changed, the CC issuer will still accept the old number from the merchant for a period of time (maybe 6 months or so - depending on the issuer) before we have to notify the merchant to charge the new number.

Once we had to miss a hotel stay because of an airline strike. The hotel had our "old" card number on record, but it would not work when he tried to charge us for the missed stay. He sent an e-mail to us & we gave him the new card number. This suggests to me that "changed" card numbers are accepted for a period of time for an automatic/recurring payment - but not for a direct/normal payment.

Our swipe card experiences are mainly in France, and we often go to areas where there are few (if any) USA tourists. At one large Carrefour a few years ago, the card reader was bolted to the holder so that a swipe was impossible. We managed to unbolt it and try a swipe but it didn't work. The store manager was called and indicated that they had disabled the swipe transactions recently. On a few other readers, there was no capability of a swipe at all. I also suspect that some merchants just didn't want to accept a swipe for some reason. My wife worked for Visa for 20 years, and says that merchants can get charged different rates by their card issuer based on swipe vs manual entry. Perhaps swipe vs chip also has these different rates (she retired before chips in the US became available).

Again - we usually don't sign the back of our cards, because we are lazy. I don't recall ever having to prove identity to anyone in France - and we spend 2 month there (& elsewhere in Europe) almost every year.

Stu Dudley

hetismij2

Swiping cards in most places in the Netherlands just isn't possible any more. The swipe part of old machines is disabled, and new machines don't have the option.

I can't see why signing a card is such a problem. Not having a signature on the card clearly doesn't prevent fraud, since apparently vendors in the US don't check the signature anyway.

xyz123

hetsmij2...this has been an on-going discussion on many credit card blogs and the like (flyer talk always has big big threads on credit cards as most airline travelers use credit cards somewhat more so than the average joe in the street. Now having said that, this question of providing identification comes up all the time with so many Americans, either chipless or pinless feel that showing id offers them a great sense of security against what they think is identify theft.

I will not show id to any merchant when I use a credit card for the reason I enumerated above. Credit card fraud, while yes it can be traumatic the first time it happens, is relatively easy to deal with and virtually every USA bank doesn't even make an effort to collect the $50 which is the maximum liability under American law (yes I realize this may be different elsewhere). In any event, I carry around an excerpt from the visa merchant agreement prohibiting merchants (at least in the USA) from not completing a credit card purchase for failure to produce id. I had such a fight with one merchant who absolutely refused to complete the transaction so I showed them my NYC metrocard with my picture on it with no other identification. He grudgingly took it but I reported the merchant to visa and a couple of weks later, I saw a sign from the merchant apologizing to his customers that because some ignorant person had complained, he could no longer ask for id for credit card purchases. I pointed out in my response above why it is never a good idea to show id to any merchant for using a credit card and why it's stupid to write see id on the signature panel as actually physical stolen cards is a very very small part of the fraud problem.

As a matter of fact, many merchants don't even ask for signatures for small purchases, most don't check as you swipe the card in the pos terminal and it never leaves your hand. Some merchants make a pretense of checking the signature and I deliberately sign my name differently than on the signature panel and have never been challenged in the USA. European merchants do check signatures somewhat more closely on pinless cards (although the card I use now is chip and signature with a 1% cash reward for all purchases and no foreign transaction fee).

I don't question that many merchants in the Netherlands don't accept swipe cards although it is a violation of the visa operating manual (although the Netherlands may have a law prohibiting visa from enforcing this rule). None of this has caused the USA to inch one step closer to the universal issue of chip and pin cards. The banks make a mint on credit card fees and the like and are willing to accept the losses due to fraud, as large as they may seem although small in terms of total revenue, as a part of doing business and a fraction of the cost of converting all the pos terminals in the country. Supposedly there is a 2015 deadline but something tells me it will be extended when the true costs of conversion become apparent to all!

Improviser

Pam, I am going to ignore all of the responses above (many of which are talking about irrelevant topics that you didn't ask about) and instead reply to your actual question.

"will there be a problem without my signature on these cards?"

The answer is that you MAY have a problem in some cases. No one can tell you that you won't or that you will. It depends on the individual merchant/restuarant/hotel, etc. that you deal with and the individual in each that you deal with. Just like it does at home.

Some may not even bother looking; some may and be smart enough to understand what it means or able to understand your explanation for why you do as you do and accept photo ID; some may not accept it.

That's the answer to your question as asked. The unasked question is what to do about it since you want to be able to complete EVERY transaction.

There is only one answer to that question as well. Have a chip and pin card which WILL be accepted everywhere. The fact is the USA is behind in credit card technology and you have to realize that is the case. But SOME USA card providers DO have the chip and pin technology and as a traveller, you should 'vote with your feet' and give your business to them.

When more Americans start refusing to deal with cards that use outmoded technology, the providers will be forced to change.

Christina

Many places in Europe (and more in the US) do ask for some ID when using a credit card, but what on earth does that have to do with refusing to sign a credit card? You aren't supposed to be allowed to use it that way, and it makes no sense anyway. The whole idea is that your signature is supposed to match the one of the person whose card it is, and they are supposed to sign it when they get it. Leaving it blank is silly, because then anyone who got it could sign it. I don't even understand the "we are lazy" argument, is it really an ordeal to sign your name?

I really don't even understand the logic of those who refuse to sign credit cards, what possible reason they have for doing that. The problem is it is accepted in most places as they don't pay much attention to them (in the US), but they aren't supposed to. YOu use them yourself a lot in machines, of course. In Europe, being foreign, they will scrutinize it more in some places.

xyz123

Every response above as best as I can see was on topic. The solution? Request a new card from your issuer and follow the rules and sign it on the signature panel. Period. Yes you might consider getting a chip and pin card but quite frankly the only bank I know of that is any size that issues a true chip and pin card is USAA and the chip and pin function is worthless in the USA; while many merchants do have relatively new pos terminals capable of accepting emv chips, 99.9% of them as of today are inoperative.

Several banks issue chip and signature cards and several banks claim to offer chip and pn cards but in reality, other than USAA and perhaps one or two other very small banks, their so called chip and pin cards default as chip and signature cards. It is unclear just how much advantage chip and signature cards are over magnetic strip cards. But dn't hold your breath that the USA will soon be issuing chip and pn cards. They're a long way down the road.

So as I said, showing ID for a credit card transaction subjects you to a greater chance of identity theft as opposed to credit card fraud and offers very little protection. Request a new card and sign it properly on the signature panel.

Cowboy1968

Apologies, I'm afraid I misunderstood the essence of the initial question.
I thought it was some type of card which had by default no box for the signature but that phrase "see photo ID" printed by the issuer on it.
Honestly, I have never ever seen anything like that, and have no guess how any merchant in Germany will react to it. Technically, you have voided the credit card as xyz explained already.
While you can do swipe+sign anywhere in Germany where you can pay with credit cards, most merchants do check the signature.
If I had to make a bet (and actually who can tell for sure), I'd say that you won't be able to make more than 2 out of 10 purchases with that card in Germany.

newtome

Also to answer the question- we had trouble all over the UK. As the merchants wanted to see our signatures and compare them to the slips. So we stopped writing "ask for ID " on our cards.

xyz123

As I said, I don't where this myth that writing check ID on the signature panel does one iota of good; only when the card is actually stolen or lost and in that case it is really your responsibility to notify the issuer ASAP. In all other cases, it won't do one iota of good.

And as pointed out just above, most merchants in the UK do continue to take magnetic strip cards (plenty of Americans visit there and the two languages, English and American are very similar)without too much of a problem but do make a pretense of checking signatures (I wonder though if you sign the sales slip check id if they will accept the card!)

alanRow

<i>alanRow, you are correct that an industrious criminal could doctor up some ID; however, for US usage it does deter your run of the mill petty crook. </i>

Takes about 5 minutes "if you know the right people" (ie any High School Kid who wants to buy booze) so it would not deter a crook one iota - certainly it's a lot easier than practising a signature