Seattle/A'dam/Paris by KLM
 

Has anyone done this? I have to fly Anchorage to Seattle just for starters so am trying to make the trip as compact as possible. BA flies Seattle to Heathrow but the prices through to Paris looked a tad higher. Air France does not appear to fly direct from Seattle. KLM ? Service? Timeliness? Safety record? I've never flown them. How much time should I have them allow for plane change? I like to unwind with face wash/coffee and make sure my luggage gets through. However, these days I don't much want to hang around an airport long. How is security in A'dam? What about their mention in the same paragraph as Spain - re: getting troups out of Iraq? Thanks for any help/comments.

KLM is one of Europe's top airlines with a great safety record and service is quite efficient. The service is on par with most big carriers, which means quite average. But connecting through Amsterdam is a whole lot easier than thru Heathrow. An hour and a half is usually sufficient for a connection through A'dam.

All other things being equal, you could also consider the bennies involved. It's a lot of miles. Northwest has partnerships with KLM and Alaska Airlines. It's a long flight. You should be banking usable miles for yourself on a trip like this.

KLM doesn't fly to SEA. The flight is operated by Northwest, with a DC-10-30, one of the oldest passenger planes (should be 20+ years old) still flying across the Atlantic. No personal monitors, little overhead luggage space.

AK Air miles were a big factor, believe me, although I would also earn those with British Air and am somewhat familiar with Heathrow. I don't like the sound of the 20 year old plane thing but don't the newer planes only have 2 engines, so if one goes out.......?

if one goes out.....

you could still get home with the other one!

When one engine goes out on a modern plane, the remaining is capable to keep it airborne. But of course, the pilot will divert to the closest airport - just as they would if one engine of a 3- or 4-engine jet fails. So, you can see that the chance of a diversion is actually lower with a 2-engine plane.

Most US airlines use twins for Atlantic flights - 767, 777, or A330. Many European airlines also use 4-engined ones like 747s and A340s, in additional to the twins.

rkkwan, I don't know what this particular passenger is flying on to AMS with NWA, but I've flown on the DC-10 plenty of times out of DTW. My next flight on that route is an A330, so they definitely are in the process of replacing the older aircraft.

The 747s that BA use on the SEA LHR legs aren't all that much younger, plus the DC-10s have 2-5-2 seating in steerage, so if you can sweet talk NW/KL into giving you one or two of the window doubles, it's actually not that bad a ride. The DC-10s actually give you an extra inch of leg room compared to BA's sardine seating; however the NW/KL seats are a wee bit narrower, making a window or aisle even more important.

Question - if you're flying on AS outside, and/or using AS miles, what about going to SFO, LAX or ORD where the code share would go the other way and you'd end up on a KLM 747? Might be a more comfortable (i.e. emptier) flight since more carriers go to Europe from those hubs than go from SEA.

Regarding Schiphol vs. Heathrow, I'll take AMS any day of any week of any year. By a mile. No comparison IMO.

If you're going to Paris, you can go thru Detroit on Northwest. Does the fare not apply to that routing?
If it does, the Detroit-Paris will be on a brand new A330, with TV monitors at every seat.

I'm thinking of doing this next trip. I live in Seattle, so am sympathetic about your LONG flight to get to Europe. We flew BA the last 2 times, and while I have no problems with BA, Heathrow is one of my least favorite airports, so I'm trying to avoid it next time as well.

I didn't realize this about the KLM flight and it doesn't sound great. Another possibility for you might to check out flights from Vancouver BC or even SF or LA. One time we flew with Air France to and from LA and that wasn't as bad as dealing with Heathrow.

I sure would like to hear some other suggestions as to how we might be able to do this in the least "painful" way possible.

Yes, NW is receiving A330-300 and will replace all its DC-10-30 on its Atlantic routes. Right now, 333 is on 3 out of 4 DTW-AMS, and DTW-CDR/FRA. All the remaining Atlantic flights are still DC10 in the current timetable, plus AMS-BOM.

artlover,

Seattle is really not as bad as you think. Dallas is only about 50 miles less and surprisingly Denver is only about 125 miles less to London, which amounts to minutes when you fly 550 miles per hour. Of course if you have to connect it will be more. My point is that citizens of the other cities face the same long flight.

Anyway, here are some suggestions about flying to Europe from Seattle. Did you ever consider some of the domestic airlines? AA will fly you through Chicago or Dallas or New York where you could connect on AA to LHR, LGW, BRU, CDG, and FRA.
UA could probably get you to some other cities through Denver or Chicago.
Delta through Atlanta will open more possibilities. Continental and USAir even more.
Either all the way on the above or connect with their European partners.

So many choices............

i have actually taken this exact trip and it is fine. be sure to ask for seating in row 22 or row 13 (the bulkheads). row 22 has more legroom. schippol airport is very easy for getting around in and the duty free coming back is great. the dc-10 is a good plane. yes they are old but they still fly fine and all coach seats are cramped.

For a plane like the DC-10, I think it's quite important to check sites like:

http://seatguru.com/northwest/DC1030.shtml

Bulkhead seats should be Row 10 and 22 (based on both seatguru.com, and nwa.com) I have sat on Row 10 once, and the comment about the movie screen projected right in front of you on seatguru is true. Also, because of the projector, I don't believe there is any overhead luggage in the center of the plane for the first few rows like 10-12 either, plus there's no underseat luggage space for Row 10.

Let me just say that I do have some "issues", not safety related, with these old planes.

Thanks for all your comments. I returned through San Francisco via British Air once. Believe me, it makes a LONG trip home to Anchorage. I will look at Vancouver. Prefer the polar route. Flights used to go to Europe direct from Anchorage during the cold war. Now that they are allowed to cross Russian air space, they don't. There's one charter to Frankfurt in the summer, but I want to fly April '05. Maybe NW will have newer planes by then. I considered flying AK Air to Boston then taking Air France, but the Atlantic leg was still 7 or 7-1/2 hours. I picked Seattle over Detroit/Kentucky/Chicago, etc, all those other places, because it's the quickest stop from AK.

No AS mileage credit any more, but for longhaul from SEA, I think it's hard to beat the SAS N/S to Copenhagen, now on Airbus 340 equipment, considerably more comfortable (by most accounts) than the older planes in use by the rest. Certainly for connections the CPH terminal is a breeze, plus I think the flight time is maybe 30 min. less than AMS or LHR because CPH is a tad farther north. Of course that means the connecting flight to Paris is a bit longer too. But we havent been dissatisfied on SAS on several flights.

Also no AS miles but also have a look at Lufthansa N/S to FRA from Portland.

Alaska doesn't start N/S service between Anchorage and Vancouver until later in the spring I think, so connecting via YVR is probably out of the question. Generally flights to European destinations are more expensive out of Vancouver, especially while Air Canada is trying to stay alive. Plus the only time I flew N/S between YVR and LHR the plane was 13 hours late. Let me tell you, that's not an airport with all-night charisma.

If your goal is to fly from Anchorage (not Seattle) to Paris, and you want the shortest journey time - which seems quite important to you with all your comments on this thread - then your choices are simple.

AS to ORD (Chicago O'Hare), and then one of the direct flights from ORD to CDG (AA, UA, AF) or Delta/Air France via Cincinnati. While flying through SEA shorterns the route from ANC, a connection at AMS to Paris easily adds 3-4 hours of journey time.

Air Canada only flies to Paris via Montreal, so you need ANC-YVR-YUL-CDG. And their Paris flights arrive from Europe pretty late, so you can't get back to ANC on the same day.

what type planes is northwest flying from boston to ams. dc10's or ?
thanks

Hi hoping. I live in Seattle and have always flown KLM and/or its partner Northwest to Paris via Amsterdam. I've always been very pleased with the service and timeliness...and, since I'm still alive, their safety record :)