seat61: what counts as a "long-distance" train ride? Reservations, Eurail
 

I'm looking at seat61.com for advice of train travel in Europe. He keeps mentioning that "long-distance train rides" to, from and within France, Italy and Spain require seat reservations ahead of time, and these reservations cost an additional fee on top of your ticket.

I'm wondering, what exactly qualifies as a long-distance train ride?

So here is the deal: I will be making the following train trips during my trip this summer:

Paris to Nice (night train; we already plan to reserve a couchette)

Nice to Cinque Terre (La Spezia I think)

CT to Florence

Florence to Venice

Venice to Austria (probably Attnang-Puchheim)

Do any or all of these qualify as as "long-distance"? Should I reserve ahead of time for any of them aside from Paris-Nice?

We intend to book a France-Italy Eurail Pass (which obviously won't apply to the trip from Italy to Austria). I thought my friend had already ordered them (paying for two people together gets you a bit of a deal), but she hasn't yet, so it is not set in stone. But basically, it will cost us $301 CAD each for four travel days within a month. Looking at the TGV calandar, it looks like a night train with couchette from Paris to Nice alone will will cost 242 euros (which seems really steep...), so it seems like a good deal to get the pass.

So with the pass, which train rides should we be making reservations for?

well, that is an imprecise term, in France it isn't really by distance, but that's a shorthand way of guessing. Any TGV requires it, for example, and some other trains that are not. It is never required for short regional runs. The train website tells you, or rather, you don't really have to know as it is included in the ticket price. I don't know Italy, but in France, of course the one to Nice will. The one from Nice to Spezia may or may not, depending on which train you take, it isn't required for all of them but is for some of them with that route. It also depends on time of day, I think.

Yikes. It's kind of confusing! Do you think I should just make reservations for all of them to be safe?

STOP before you buy the passes.. They are not always a good deal because in your case seat reservations can add cost and make them less economical then just buying in advance discount tickets point to point.

For instance I took a day train from Paris to Nice last summer. First class, cost me 40 euros each.. its only 5.5 hour trip so why to a night train, especially at those prices, a hotel room is only 80-100 euros so that's 40-50 each, that still saves you no money taking a night train.
I purchased it as soon as they opened ticket sales for my date and on idTGV website( discount part of TGV)

I think you really really need to do the math before you invest in train passes.

You're travelling backwards. There is no way you can tell if a pass will save you money until you look up the cost of point-to-point tickets. (It certainly will add the aggravation of making separate reservations.) Since you have successfully found the best source of information, you can use Seat61's resources to go to the individual rail companies and price your routes. They will make plain whether reservations are required so you do not have to fret about whether a run is "long distance", and usually the seat reservations will be sold at the same time. Seat61 states clearly that passes frequently aren't worth it, and nobody knows better than he does.

Yikes. It's kind of confusing! Do you think I should just make reservations for all of them to be safe?>>

no, you cannot. Many trains don't even have reservations possible, so you can't make them on those trains. I checked the schedules on SNCF for Nice to Spezia, for example, and some of them were trains where the kind where no reservations were possible, and some required them. Also, you have to transfer on that route, but it was still the same situation for both legs, some required reservations and some trains you couldn't make them.

I think you can get some idea on bahn.de if you look at the detail, it names trains with compulsory reservations. On SNCF, you couldn't even see the schedule for summer, I just checked May dates.

In France, commuter trains and regional trains (TER) do not have reservations. Intercity (Corail) trains have optional réservations and TGV trains have obligatory réservations.

That makes sense. It is true when I looked at the SNCF schedule, the train from Nice to Vintmille which is the first or only transfer is always without reservation (you can't make one) as it is a TER. It is the trains in Italy that can vary a bit beyond that point as to whether it is required or not. Vintmille is called Ventimiglia in Italy. It's less than an hour from Nice.

CORAIL Teoz trains in France can also require reservations.

On the OP's trains:
Paris to Nice (night train; we already plan to reserve a couchette) - OK not required but a good idea to pre-book.

Nice to Cinque Terre (La Spezia I think)
This involves regional and IC trains on which reservations are either impossible or optional - IC trains cost a few eruos to reserve and it was obligatory but now I believe some seats are set aside as non-reserved.

CT to Florence - mostly regional trains with no seat reservations required.

Florence to Venice - definitely required as is on high-speed trains. 10 euros per seat - easy to make once in Italy IME.

Venice to Austria (probably Attnang-Puchheim) - actually is a bus from Venice to Austria border then train on most links - do not think reservations are required on the bus but may be - not on any Austrian train - hop on - reservations are optional.

Thus for you very little required reservations - only one or maybe two if Venice to Austrian border is required.

For lots of great info on European trains check out not only Man in Seat 61's commercial site - www.seat61.com but also www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

<Man in Seat 61 drops by Fodors occasionally like he does any site to flog his commercial web site mainly it seems so is not a regular contributor and may not see your post aimed at him.

so long-distance is not a good word as it depends on the type of train - hop on a TGV train Nice to Ventimiglia, Italy for a few minutes and you still pay the 3 euros - not much - fee and have to reserve a seat ahead of time - the same as you would on a TGV from Paris to Nice - still 3 euros. It's the type of train as usually these are long-distance trains but not always (like Fyra trains in Holland).

That makes sense. It is true when I looked at the SNCF schedule, the train from Nice to Vintmille which is the first or only transfer is always without reservation (you can't make one) as it is a TER>

I think some TGV trains serve Ventimgilia and they require reservations - that said most trains are regional trains sans any possible reservations.

question is can you buy the Italian portion tickets in Nice? I would not count on it meaning you either pre-book on www.trenitalia.com (but you cannot book regional trains I believe) or have to buy tickets in Ventimiglia, perhaps missing a connection so if that is the case allow more time between trains.

>>>it looks like a night train with couchette from Paris to Nice alone will will cost 242 euros (which seems really steep...), so it seems like a good deal to get the pass.<<<

A pass would not include any sleeping accommodations on a train. You would have to pay for them in addition to the cost of the pass.

You need to price all these tickets as most can be advanced purchased online at big discounts. You need to go to the individual websites to do so.

For Paris/Nice use justineparis' suggestion, but make sure you don't let and French train sites rollover to RailEurope.
**I purchased it as soon as they opened ticket sales for my date and on idTGV website( discount part of TGV)**

For Nice/Ventimiglia (Italy border station), buy at the station in Nice and hop on the next train (it will only be a few euro).

>>>Nice to Cinque Terre (La Spezia I think)<<<

La Spezia is past CT so you need to fiqure out where you are going. It might be possible to buy Nice to one of the towns in CT at the Nice station. If not, you would buy it at the Italian station Ventimiglia. Ventimiglia to La Spezia is a long train ride (5 hours), but cheap (18€). Example:

Ventimiglia 11:50
La Spezia Centrale 16:59
05:09
Regionale 11207
Price starting from 18.20 €

>>>CT to Florence<<<

Buy at station in CT as these will likely be all R trains (regional) and there is no point in buying in advance (no discounts or seat reservations possible).

Florence/Venice
Buy in advance on Trenitalia for discounts (as cheap as 9€, but more likely 19€).

I took PalenQ's advice on previous post and went to budgeteuropetravel.com I called their 800 number left a message and was called back within 15 minutes. The gentleman who called me could not have been nicer or more informative. I asked him the most basic questions and he patiently walked me thru the whole train travel process. I now feel much more comfortable and informed. I highly recommend you try them. I was very appreciative of his time, ( we talked for 30 minutes!)

A pass would not include any sleeping accommodations on a train. You would have to pay for them in addition to the cost of the pass.>

Why would one thing a pass includes the sleeping option - it pays for the train fare only - most of the cost - couchettes cost about 25-30 euros - still cheaper than most hotels charge so you save money taking night trains.

And again keep in mind the 7 pm rule on night trains where you can travel on trains the whole next day and just use one day on a flexipass - travel from 7 pm one day to the following midnight.

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We priced everything out and it seems that the Eurail pass ends up costing a few Euros more (I think it was like, 6 euros, so cutting it very close!) than it would cost to book each ticket individually, even including the reservations. We ended up getting the pass because it gives us a little more flexibility. Though really, the difference is not a big one and I think we could have easily just bought our train tickets at each station (or made reservations ahead as necessary), it does save us a little time trying to figure things out at each point and I think it'll lessen the language barrier issue a little, too.

We got the France-Italy pass, with 4 travel days in 2 months. We got a discount because we paid together! Obviously, I didn't include the Venice-Austria trip in my calculations :)

palenQ: thanks for laying it all out for me, that really helped :) Based on your advice, which my research confirms, I will only make one additional reservation, for the Florence-Venice train. You mention that this reservation is easily made once in Italy; but how far ahead should I make it? A few days ahead? I think to play it safe I may just reserve it online :)

Also, thank you for the bus tip, but I do remember last time I was in Europe taking a train from Attnang-Puchheim to Venice. I can't remember if we had to change to a different train anywhere, but I didn't take a bus at all, as I recall. Perhaps things have changed?

kbourbon: the night train couchette reservation only cost us $33 extra each on top of our passes. I did include that in my calculations :)

Any other advice/insight is very welcome, of course :)

Yes until a few years back trains went direct from Vienna to Venice and though a few may so do - like the overnight train does - usually there is now a bus link from the Austrian border station to Venice - all included in the pass but you may have to have reservations for the bus - not sure - if so could easily get those in Vienna.

Well, we are going from Venice TO Austria...so does that mean we'd have to take a train to the boarder and then bus through Austria?